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dr.oetk3r
20-07-2007, 19:37
Most of us know about genestealers and what they are capable of. We also know about how they can start cults. Most of the background information on gen-cults is about cults on human worlds. But what about genstealer cults on non-human planets (excluding Ork empire of Charadon)? Didn't the Tau come into contact with a genestealer cult? I'd like to know more about this and how the genestealer hybrids vary in traits depending on the host race.

Lord_Squinty
20-07-2007, 19:41
Most of us know about genestealers and what they are capable of. We also know about how they can start cults. Most of the background information on gen-cults is about cults on human worlds. But what about genstealer cults on non-human planets (excluding Ork empire of Charadon)? Didn't the Tau come into contact with a genestealer cult? I'd like to know more about this and how the genestealer hybrids vary in traits depending on the host race.

Its been a long time since any real background was released for genestealer cults - in fact, since tyranids were released as a race, GW seems to want to forget they ever were...

But there was lots of background back in the rogue trader days about ork genestealer hyrids, dont remember any eldar ones though.

Charax
20-07-2007, 20:12
Yes, it's not as if Genestealer Cults have appeared in the Tau background or are detailed in Xenology, is it? nope, completely forgotten :eyebrows:

The Tash'va infestation is detailed in the background for Por’la Vior’la Kais’uam (the Inquisitor Tau water caste envoy). It was defeated by a bunch of Savage Blade kroot armed with Pulse weaponry and Photon grenades.

Eldar cults have rarely, if ever, been mentioned - I'll see if I can find something in the RT Compendium about them.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, Broodlords and Patriarchs are seperate things, and Patriarchs continue to exist.

Mechanicus
20-07-2007, 20:12
They're in the novels as well - the Ciaphas Cain series features them multiple times, albeit on human worlds. They're far from dead yet. I believe genestealer cults in the Tau Empire are mentioned in Duty Calls, at least.

Charax
20-07-2007, 20:21
Ah, here's something interesting:
"Genestealers are capable of interbreeding with any intelligent or highly-evolved species" - RT Compilation.

It goes on to say that the infiltration pattern of genestealers isn't substantially different between infiltrating humans or other species, so it's fairly safe to assume the process of infiltration, the creation of Hybrids and Magi, and the evolution into a Patriarch all happen in other societies pretty much as they do in humans.

dr.oetk3r
20-07-2007, 21:23
Ah very interesting, thank you,

BTW, i don't have the picture, but i seem to recall seeing a concept sketch for an ork hybrid somehwere.

EDIT- http://www.hivefleetmoloch.de/genoproject.php#

"some interesting stealer hybrid conversions!

Born Again
21-07-2007, 01:36
There used to be a model for ork genestealer hybrids.
here (http://http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2074orkfreebooterz-h.htm)
Would the Genestealers really be able to work in Eldar society? At least, Craftworld eldar? the whole point of them is to provide a beacon for the hive fleets, but as the craftworld is capable of moving away again, maybe the hive mind recognises this and doesn't waste it's time. Also, as the Eldar are more psychically sensitive than other races, maybe they can detect the beacon themselves and hunt down the cult before it gets too much power.

And can someone please explain the differance between broodlords and patriarchs for me? thanks!

max the dog
21-07-2007, 01:40
Ah very interesting, thank you,

BTW, i don't have the picture, but i seem to recall seeing a concept sketch for an ork hybrid somehwere.

EDIT- http://www.hivefleetmoloch.de/genoproject.php#

"some interesting stealer hybrid conversions!

Max falls down to the floor drooling, "that link, the green stuff, the talent!!!!"

Curufew
21-07-2007, 02:51
Tau genestealers? Lol... No wonder they're defeated by a bunch of kroots

Biomass Denial
21-07-2007, 04:34
I think i read somewhere that the partriach is the original genestealer that starts the cult and that when seperated from the hive mind they develop into phykers and become stronger. And i thought the broodlord was a genestealer based on spacemarine DNA.

Alessander
21-07-2007, 04:40
Tim Huckelberry, a player who made the Genestealer Cult army list for Citadel Journal then joined GW, kept working on the concept for many years. The most recent is a "Make a cult" army list hybrid that allows you to "infest" any parent army list, from Orks to Tau to Sisters. Pretty impressive, actually. You couldn't use any elites from your parent army list, and everyone had a horrible LD and suffered from instinctive behavior if they were not near a Stealer horde or a hybrid leader. You got Genestealers and broodlords as HQ and elites. You lost any army bonuses, but it was a blast to play.

Born Again
21-07-2007, 04:44
Thanks, Biomass Denial. I was under the impression Broodlords were Patriarchs revived for 4th Edition, seeing as they disappeared entirely during 3rd.

Khaine's Messenger
21-07-2007, 04:45
As to Eldar genestealer cults...I suggest finding a copy of What Price Victory, if only for the short story "Elucidium," which is like a genestealer cult bible. It even has a character in it that an Istvaanian Inquisitor claims is an Eldar/stealer hybrid.

*EDIT: "'Sadly,' he said, 'Eldar biology is rather less... crude... than that of humanity. The taint requires many more generations to achieve the primacii mutation. By which time, typically, the hybrid community has been discovered and purged. The eldar are nothing if not vigilant. I found Trikara by chance in the course of my travels. She's of the fifteenth or sixteenth generation, as far as I can tell. (...)'"

Alessander
21-07-2007, 04:50
A quick look at the rules document for Tim Huckelberry's "Infest your army" army list reveals that it is NOT copyrighted or restricted to distribution on the rules site. Thus, here are the full rules for "infesting" any army. You'll need a copy of Codex:Tyranids as well as your parent army codex as well.
<hr>

Infesting your Armies: Genestealer Infestations in Warhammer 40,000
Infection, Infestation, Insurrection!

The rules below represent Genestealer Infestations, where these insidious Tyranid vanguard creatures have undermined local forces and now lead them into outright rebellion. Unable to reproduce any other way, Genestealers procreate by implanting their unique DNA into their victims. Once this “Genestealer Kiss” is made, the infection attacks both the victim’s mind and body. The Brood Mind hypnotically subverts and dominates their now pliable will, making them easily controlled and willing to follow their new leaders. This implantation also twists their genetic code, altering future offspring into hybrid creatures combining characteristics of both the host species and their alien masters. Infested societies often mask themselves as innocuous religious sects or offshoot clans, but once sufficient power is acquired they reveal their true nature in vicious uprisings and open war. Like sharks drawn by blood in the water, the roaming Tyranid Hive Fleets are beaconed to these conflicts as an indication of plentiful new feeding grounds.

Special Rules
Brood Control: While not as powerful as true Synapse Creatures, some broods can act much in the same way if they are in sufficient strength; their combined will uniting them with the Broodmind and keeping Infested units under control. Any Genestealer broods of at least 9 models and any Hybrid broods of at least 14 models count as Synapse Creatures, but only for the purpose of controlling Infested units (i.e., only the first paragraph under Synapse Creatures on page 28 of Codex: Tyranids). If a brood falls below its required number, then this ability is lost.

Synapse Shock: If a Synapse Creature is killed within 12” of any Infested Unit or Hybrid Brood, then each must take a Morale test at the end of that phase due to the abrupt severing of the Brood telepathic link. If the test is passed, that unit becomes Fearless for the rest of the game in their fanatical zeal to avenge their leader. If failed, the unit Falls Back towards the table edge and counts as below 50% strength (though it may regroup due to getting near enough to a Synapse Creature or large enough brood).

Wargear for Brood Leaders & Hybrid Leaders:
Unless noted otherwise, Brood Leaders may only chose wargear & weapons from the host army’s Armory that do not have any restrictions as to what character types may chose them. They may also choose from the new items below:

Genestealer Familiar (10 pts) These stunted creatures are heavily psychic, normally the heavily mutated offspring of infested psykers. They latch onto Brood Leaders and lend them their energies. A Familiar allows a Brood Leader to buy one additional Tyranid psychic power at its normal cost. Brood Leader Only

Staff of Power (10 pts) These arcane devices serve as a conduit for psychic energies, and allow a Brood Leader to re-roll (once) any failed Psychic Test. Brood Leader Only

Chitin Armor (8 pts) Layers of Genestealer Chitin are worked onto the existing armor worn by the model. Enemy weapons must exceed the Armor Value to cause wounding strikes, rather than equal it (so an AP4 strike would not negate armor of 4+, for example – only an AP3 weapon would).

Call of the Brood (10 pts) The Leader is has advanced psychic connection to all members of the Brood, and can call the members to battle with ease. He has the same Pheromone Trail ability as a Lictor (see page 38 of Codex: Tyranids). Brood Leader Only


HQ
0-1 Broodlord
This advanced Genestealer is usually the primogenitor of the infestation, and now that the Brood has advanced in power it feels the call of the stars again and spurs its children to battle. Only the massive clash of claws on flesh can ignite the Brood Overmind into shining brilliance, a beacon for guiding the true Masters to the planet and the rich feeding ground their servants will prepare for them.
Rules: as per Codex: Tyranids
Additional options:
A Genestealer retinue is not required, but the Broodlord cannot Infiltrate if one is not taken.
Psychic Powers – Synapse Creature, plus one other power can be chosen as per the Hive Tyrant rules (including The Horror which can be taken for 5 pts).

Brood Leader
The Brood is naturally drawn to psychically attuned individuals, and eagerly recruit them (by force if necessary) so that their valuable psychic genetic material can be absorbed. This results in the emergence of Brood Leaders – often appearing almost normal for the host species, but still possessing some of the abilities of its true Genestealer heritage. Totally immersed in the Brood collective mind and possessing strong psychic abilities, Brood Leaders administer and organize the infested force, driving them on towards greater levels of power. Where necessary, Brood Leaders also operates publicly, openly gathering followers and support from the surrounding communities until the time comes for its final move to take control.
Profile Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Brood Leader 35 4 3 4 4 2 4 1 9 4+
Psyker: Synapse Creature, and one other power can be chosen as per Broodlord rules above. These will count towards his wargear restrictions.

Weapons: Pistol (works as laspistol) and Close Combat Weapon

A Brood Leader’s Armory options are dependent on the host army (see below), but only 75 points of wargear can be selected no matter the host army. Any points spent on mutations count towards the Leader’s wargear allowance. If the Leader is modeled with extra limbs, he may carry up to three weapons but only two of these may be a Two-Handed Weapon. Rending Claws and Scything Talons will each count as a single-handed weapon (see below).

Mutations: A Brood Leader must take at least one bio-weapon upgrade as per the Broodlord’s options & restrictions but at 1/3 the price (round up), including Rending Claws (+6 pts) and Scything Talons (+3 pts). For every bio-weapon taken past the first though, the Leader’s Ballistic Skill drops by 1 to a minimum of 1. After that, every subsequent bio-weapon chosen reduces the model’s WS by 1 to a minimum of 1. Extended Carapace cannot improve the armor save to better than 3+ and Rending Claws cannot be combined with any mechanical weapon effects (power weapon, power fists, etc).

Retinue: A Brood Leader may take a retinue of Genestealers as per the Broodlord’s rules, or a retinue of up to 12 Genestealer Hybrids chosen as below.


Elites
Purestrain Genestealers
They are the purest warrior – no remorse or pity, only blinding speed, clashing teeth, and ripping claws. Almost unstoppable in combat, they also serve a more important, sinister purpose. Genestealers are driven to infect and corrupt other races with their genetic material in order to reproduce. Nearly immortal, and able to survive even in the most inhospitable environments, they roam the galaxy on Space Hulks and other random transports. Moving from planet to planet they work to undermine planetary populations and make way for the advance of the Tyranid Hive Fleets, a more subtle threat that the Imperium is usually too late in realizing.
Rules: as per Codex: Tyranids

New Options – If Scuttlers is selected as an upgrade then the brood becomes Fast Attack. If no bio-weapon upgrades are selected, then the brood can be chosen as Troops.

Genestealer Hybrid Broods
When infected with Genestealer DNA, the host’s own genetic makeup is subverted to produce more alien offspring. The subsequent reproductive cycle ranges from near bestial Genestealer Hybrids to offspring nearly identical to the host species, with new Purestrain Genestealers appearing as well. While they are not as deadly as Purestrain Genestealers, Hybrids do not share their genetic inability to utilize mechanical tools or weapons and thus give the Brood invaluable firepower in combat.
Profile Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Hybrid 10 4 3 3 4 1 4 1 8 5+
Hybrid Leader +20 4 3 3 4 1 4 2 9 5+
Brood size: 8 - 24 models.
Weapon options are dependent on the host army (see below)

Hybrid Broods are nominally an Elites choice, but this can change depending on their weapons:
- If more than 2 weapons of S6 or higher are chosen then it becomes a Heavy Support selection
- If no more than 1 weapon of S6 or higher is taken, then they may be taken as Troops
- If given a transport then it must become a Fast Attack selection, no matter the weapons chosen

Mutations: The brood purchases bio-weapons chosen as per the Brood Leader rules above. At least one bio-weapon must be taken for the brood members. Note that each bio-weapon must be applied to all members of the brood.

One Hybrid per brood can be upgraded to a Hybrid Leader for +20 pts. This allows him access to the armory for weapons and up to 50 points of wargear. He counts as an Independent Character and the rest of the brood becomes his Retinue. If the Hybrid Leader is modeled with extra limbs, he may carry up to three weapons but only two of these may be a Two-Handed Weapon. Rending Claws and Scything Talons will each count as a single-handed weapon. Any points spent on his mutations do not count towards his wargear allowance.


Transport
Infested Armies often use upgraded civilian vehicles to move throughout society and during conflict as well where they serve to transport the Brood’s leadership through the battle. These may use wheels, tracks, or anti-grave engines, but all follow the rules below.
Profile Points Front Side Rear
Civilian Transport +15 pts 10 10 9
Type: Tank but cannot perform Tank Shock. Even though they are totally enclosed, these vehicles also count as Open-Topped due to their light construction and large (though normally darkened) windows.

Transport: A maximum of 12 models from a single unit. They are always chosen as a unit transport, and cannot be used by any other unit. Genestealers and models in Power Armor count as 2 models for transport purposes; models in Terminator armor or multi-wound creatures count as 3 models. Hybrid Broods may always take a Civilian Transport, but Brood Leaders may only take one if they include a retinue.

Infested Units
Broods often infiltrate military forces, either as Genestealer forces attack these hapless individuals or they are indoctrinated and brought under control by other Brood members. Once implanted with the Genestealer DNA, they are lead against their former comrades and all others who would stand in the way of their new family.

Infested Units Special Rules:
All Infested Units have Leadership 5 (no matter the original value). They count as Tyranid creatures for the purposes of Synapse Creature control and use the Tyranid Instinctive Behavior rules so they must test for movement (but may not choose to Lurk) if out of control range. When Falling Back, they will always move towards the nearest starting table edge. Infested Units also lose all normal racial special rules; Infested Space Marines no longer have the And They Shall Know No Fear ability and Eldar cannot use Fleet of Foot as examples. Infested Units cannot have any unit character upgrades, and may not select unit transports unless it is mandatory for that unit. For example, an Infested Imperial Guard unit could not upgrade to a Veteran Sergeant.

The following units may be used in Infested Armies, but a player may only select Infested Units from a single army for their force. Note that players do not need to actually use Infested Units in their army and can instead play a pure “Genestealer Invasion Force” with no Infested Units included. Note that they must still select one “host” army to use for wargear and weapon options however.

Important Modeling Note: Infested Units must be painted/modeled to indicate they are now under the sway of the Infestation. Some sort of markings or painting must be done; players cannot field a normally painted Ultramarine squad as their Infested marines! The use of banners, trophy skulls, and other physical iconography is strongly suggested as well.

Tau
Troops: all units allowed
Fast Attack: all units allowed
Heavy Support: all units allowed
Hybrid Broods use Fire Warriors or Kroot Carnivores weapons and options

Kroot Mercenary
Troops: Carnivore Kindred
Fast Attack: all units allowed
Heavy Support: all units allowed
Hybrid Broods use Kroot Kindred weapons and options

Human (IG)
Troops: all units allowed
Fast Attack: all units allowed
Heavy Support: all units allowed
Hybrid Broods use Hardened Veterans weapons and options.
Brood Leaders may choose Officer-only items from the Armory.
No doctrines are allowed, and no command squads are allowed (field platoons as normal but without a command squad)

Lost & the Damned
Elite: Big Mutants
Troops: Traitors, Mutants
Fast Attack: Traitor Recon
Heavy Support: Traitor Tanks
Hybrid Broods use Traitors and Mutants weapons and options


Eldar
Troops: Rangers, Storm Squads, Defender Squads
Fast Attack: Jetbike Squadrons, Vyper Squadrons
Heavy Support: Falcon, Fire Prism, War Walkers, Support Weapon Batteries
Hybrid Broods use Defenders and Storm Squads weapons and options

Ork
Troops: all units allowed
Fast Attack: all units allowed
Heavy Support: all units allowed
Hybrid Broods use Slugga and Shoota boyz weapons and options

Dark Eldar
Troops: all units allowed
Fast Attack: all units allowed
Heavy Support: Scourges, Ravagers
Hybrid Broods use Warrior Squad weapons and options

(Codex) Space Marines
Troops: all units allowed
Hybrid Broods use Veteran Squad weapons and options
Relics, Artefacts, Terminator Armor, and Chapter Traits may not be used
Note that non-Codex marine models may be used here, but they must use the rules for Codex marines. So you could field an Infested Blood Angel force, but they would only follow rules from Codex: Space Marines and not any Blood Angel specific rules.

Chaos Space Marines
Troops: Chaos Space Marines
Hybrid Broods use Chosen weapons and options (but not armor options)
Terminator Armor, Marks, and Gifts are not allowed

Witch Hunters
Troops: Battle Sisters, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Hybrid Broods use Celestian Squad weapons and options

Chilltouch
21-07-2007, 05:11
The "Brood Leader" isn't really known like that and is physically different by far. I don't know the details, but I believe Charax is an expert in the fields of the Patriarch, who is the psychic master of Genestealer Cults.

Alessander
21-07-2007, 05:21
According to Space Hulk, a Patriarch is simply the oldest Genestealer in a cult or brood. The first Stealer to infest a planet. Since a cult has to go through at least four generations before becoming powerful enough to spawn new purestrains, that means the original 'Stealer is going to be at least 75 years older than it was when it first arrived.

According to Necromunda's Genestealer Cult list, if a Cult is exposed before it become powerful enough to cause cause open revolt, the Genestealer that founded the cult abandons it and moves on to new pastures.

The influence of a Genestealer Kiss is enough to remove all former alliances and rivalries. Necromunda gangers who fall under the spell of the Stealer Kiss will fight alongside rivals with no questions.

The "Brood Leader" in Tim H's infestation army list represents a 4th generation Hybrid Magus. Pretty much 100% host species but with massive psychic powers and strategic wit + charisma to be a threat to the Imperium. To put it bluntly, the PR spokesperson for the Cult. The person who heads the Cult in person when the Genestealer infestation is still unknown. Because a fledgling Cult can't really get anywhere with a Patriarch (Broodlord here) fronting their weekly sponsorship drive on TV.

dr.oetk3r
21-07-2007, 05:27
Whoah, thanks a bunch Alessander!!!

P.S. How could space marines possibly get possessed?

Alessander
21-07-2007, 05:37
Whoah, thanks a bunch Alessander!!!

P.S. How could space marines possibly get possessed?

That's a hole in the concept, along with the Chaos Marines. Only way to explain it is that a Stealer eventually corrupts someone with high enough authority (like the Apothecaries and Chaplains), who then start corrupting the Geneseed of the chapter. As new recruits are inducted into the chapter, their training shifts from "fight for the Emperor" to "fight for the Great Father hiding in the dark room in the corner of the basement". Genestealer Cult infestation takes generations of sneaky manipulation of a society. In 100 years, the corrupted chapter has corrupted the humans they recruit from, actively recruiting hybrids into their ranks.

Now, chances of the rest of the Chapter not noticing that the newest recruits have an extra purple arm is slim, but perhaps the renegades break off and form their own splinter group, standard "traitor renagade" style but with Xenos influence instead of Daemonic.

Easier explaination: it just happens.

Born Again
21-07-2007, 05:48
It would, however, be extremely unlikely. VERY extremely unlikely.

According to the descriptions in that Infestation list, Patriarchs and Broodlords are really the same thing, the first stealer to infest a planet.

Charax
21-07-2007, 08:01
Broodlords are the first genestealers to make planetfall during a Tyranid invasion - the Codex is quite clear about this, whereas the Patriarch is the first Genestealer to begin infecting during an infiltration - Broodlords aren't psychic, Broodlords don't act as a beacon for the Hive Mind, Broodlords don't become gradually more intelligent, Broodlords don't live for centuries...

How many differences do you need?

Hellebore
21-07-2007, 08:16
It would be extremely tricky for eldar infestions to occur, simply because their psychic sensitivity would allow them all to tap into the brood telepathy - there would be little chance of the brood hiding, especially on a craftworld with an infinity circuit imbedded throughout. It would be much easier amongst exodites, but still difficult.

The tau I could see as the most vulnerable, because of the absolute control of the etherals over them. If a single etherial is infected, that could well spell the doom for an entire planet...

Broodlords and Patriarchs appear to be divergent evolutions of similar situations. The difference as I see it, is that the first planetfall stealer is in a combat environment, and thus 'matures' along the Broodlord developmental path which expends all its energy in a short time creating a combat monstrosity. The stealer that sets up a cult is in a covert infiltration environment, and thus 'matures' down the patriarch developmental path over decades slowly building up the psychic ability etc.

This indicates that both are possible within the stealer genome and are completely dictated by environmental factors.

One becomes a bloated beacon with powerful psychic ability, the other a combat monster.

Two sides of the same coin.

Hellebore

Charax
21-07-2007, 08:25
Thank god someone has read the background and doesn't just go "Bg Stealer = Broodlord"

Alessander
21-07-2007, 08:29
Broodlords are psychic. They each come with a single psychic power in the tyranid codex. The new codex has redefined being a Synapse creature as being psyker in it's own right (which makes playing against a Cullexus a horrific option)

Tim H's Infestation list makes them moreso by giving them additional powers. It's a good way to represent a "uber" broodlord (or Patriarch), one that has awesome combat ability plus deadly ranged psychic powers.


Broodlords are the first genestealers to make planetfall during a Tyranid invasion - the Codex is quite clear about this,

Sorry, but the codex doesn't say this at all. The codex simply says that Broodlords are a "Tyranid vanguard organasm", using the exact same 3 words in the description for the normal Genestealers. Broodlords are the first of the 'nid vanguard organisms. In the exact same way as the Patriarch of old. First Stealer to worm the vanguard swarm of Genestealers under the skin of the Imperium.

Ironically, Tim H's older editions of the GS Cult list (a human-hybrid list, I guess) stated that it's the battle caused by the rebelling cultists that attracts the Hive Fleets more than anything else. When the hive fleets arrive, they consume everything, including the cultists and stealers. No mention is made of the Patriarch. As the Tyranids recycle everything on the planet, there's a good chance that the Patriarch gets chomped too.

Perhaps the Deathwatch Kill-Teams, after investigating a planet stripped bare by the Tyranids, found an old patriarch skeleton wearing a t-shirt with the slogan "I sired ten thousand hybrids, started military uprising and got my hive-mind masters here in less than a century and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!"


hellebore: yes, infecting a craftworld would be difficult, but rangers (the most likely source of an infestation) could easily infect small corsair groups, or the crew of a ship. Heck, perhaps being infected is one of the only ways for the Eldar to get reproducing at a fairly quick rate!

It could be that once a Patriarch starts to trigger a rebellion, that he evolves/molts into a Broodlord. The SH/Deathwing fluff that had the (fat, old) patriarch was when the cult was still still pre-rebellion. Perhaps a final stage of the rebellion is the Patriarch gets a workout and turns into the lean Broodlord, since his psychic abilities will no longer be required.

Biomass Denial
21-07-2007, 08:49
I Read some fluff on one of the websites i think and while its being stated that a patriarch is a physcic blob the fluff i read said it was more than capable of taking down a few terminators and nearly killed a librarian. The marine was amazed at the speed that it moved even with its apearance and was nearly overwhelmed at the very start of the fight, and only managed to kill the patriarch because it was distracted. Now i read this a while ago so im not sure about the details but im sure you could find it on one of the websites.

Alessander
21-07-2007, 09:16
Yea, that's from Space Hulk. He appears in the 2nd expansion for the 1st edition of the game, and there's a article in WD134 that features him as well. Basic combat for a terminator was to roll 1D6. A Patriarch rolls 4D6, and adds +3 to each roll. Highest single roll wins. Oh, and the Patriarch could do this attack nine times every turn. And this still isn't mentioning the Patriach's psychic abilities to boost combat even more. He also had the same psychic blast ability as the Grey Knight Terminators, meaning he could essentially attack someone with his psychic CC bonuses from far away without having to worry about getting hit back, or having to move (a good thing, since the Patriarch was immoble due to being partially asleep for a long time).

CyberShadow
21-07-2007, 09:53
The Patriarch is not just the first 'Stealer to land on a planet. A Purestrain infects to create first gen, which create second gen, etc. When fourth gen results in a new Purestrain, the cycle is complete and the first, original Purestrain that started it all responds and grows - physically and psychically.

The problem is that the background for the Stealers have not been updated for a long time. Looking at other races:

Humans - Clearly possible. These are the most common because human society sticks together and provides a good environment. Human psychology is also vulnerable to the Warp, which is how the Genestealers brood telepathy and hypnosis works.

Orks - As mentioned, this is possible. Orks are more difficult than Humans, since Orks are better psychically tuned to each other, and notice that 'something is up' with an Ork brood brother, and they get thrown out of Ork society quickly.

Eldar - Can happen, but is very, very rare. Eldar are too psychic to 'sneak up on' and notice the Genestealers in society better, combined with the Craftworld or Exodite society which looks after each other. To make things more difficult, Eldar only reproduce every couple of hundred years, meaning that any Genestealer needs to be really patient.

Tau - Probably possible. The backgrounds never actually met, since the Tau came out long after Genestealers stopped being a GW priority. I would also say that it would be fairly difficult, with Ethereals looking out for the Tau society, and the lack of Tau psychic ability, but it is theoretically possible. The Tau have a very short reproductive cycle too, average life span of 40 years, so it would be a quick process.

Chaos - Original background had Genestealer Cults allied with Chaos, since they had a use for each other. My first army deal with the MO Khorne Genestealer Cult - with the original plastic Imperial Guard, Fleshhounds, and Genestealers... I think that I still need to paint a couple. :(

Necrons - No! :evilgrin:

Charax
21-07-2007, 10:04
Tau - Probably possible. The backgrounds never actually met

Are you quite sure (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/Porva.pdf) about that?

Lord_Squinty
21-07-2007, 10:06
EDIT- http://www.hivefleetmoloch.de/genoproject.php#

"some interesting stealer hybrid conversions!

Those are amazin!

wish I could green stuff like that :(

CyberShadow
21-07-2007, 11:25
Are you quite sure (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/Porva.pdf) about that?

I sit corrected. :p Cool article, thanks.

Born Again
21-07-2007, 13:43
So it turns out the Patriarch was forgotten by GW, the Broodlord came along and they never really cleared up the differance between the two. Nothing new there I suppose...

I think there was discussion awhile back about Orks being able to "reabsorb" genestealer DNA, so infestations never really lasted there as they only worked for two or three generations before being reabsorbed. I can't find it now but I distinctly remember the discussion, anyone else know where to find it?

Charax
21-07-2007, 13:46
well, except that the Patriarch was mentioned in Xenology after the Broodlord's creation.

yeah, "forgotten by GW", right...

Born Again
21-07-2007, 14:56
Sorry if I caused offence...

Ironjens
22-07-2007, 04:15
I always liked the old Patriarch model, it had "stranger, danger!" written all over it's leering old-man's face. And the magus looked all stern and menacing with the robes and the staff. If you peered close enough you could see that the knob was in the shape of the patriarch :)

Unluckily the ork hybrid model just looked wrong since it wasn't menacing at all. This could probably be put down to the cartoonish qualities of the old orks. Even the khornate storm boyz looked happy rather than blood thirsty...

But as to the identity of the Broodlord I've always seen them as two different monsters. One is the Marlon Brando Don and the other is the muscles from Brussels Jean-Claude van Damme, complementing each other like all the happy organisms in the Tyranid family tree, ready to subvert or munch up anything in the way of the Hive. All according to each ones tastes and dispositions. (Or as one Tyranid player put it "Your ass is biomass!")