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Your Mum Rang
23-07-2007, 12:13
Hello gents,

I really love the looks of the Chaos Warriors. However, they are not the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen. They are too expensive and too slow.

However I really have my heart set on them as I have some nice colour schemes in mind and also some nice Rackham models to use as characters/special units.

So, how am I going to make this work? That's where you lads come in. I need lots of help to get this idea working. Here are a few of my thoughts:

- Slaanesh Magic: This could make up for the lack of speed in an army of this kind. The disruptive nature of the Lore could help to deter flankers or other problematic units.

- Cannons: DoW cannons could be added to make the enemy come to me. This would also offer some nice conversion opportunities!

- Tzeentch: Magic missiles can weather fast cavalry and skirmishers who can out manoever me.

Any other ideas?

Neknoh
23-07-2007, 12:29
I would say that a Hellcannon has a better effect on the enemy than Dogs of War cannons, since the Hellcannon forces enemies to break up their battleline, deriving them of flankers. Slaaneshi magic is deadly as well, a combination of the two would simply be cruel, so, let's see what we can do here.

We are talking the need for a solid infantry base, however, this can not be done solely with Chaos Warriors, instead, one or two blocks of Chaos Warriors should be what you'd want to strive after, and then spend the remaining points on Marauders (converted to look similar to your CW) to bolster your ranks.

Marauders so happen to cost 200 points if there's 25 of them, they're wielding a Full Command and they are armed either with Greatweapons or with Lightarmour and Shields, so, taking three or four of these blocks would give you nice round numbers to build from, and, it would anchor your line respectively.

Now, infantry need support, Chariots are excelent for this, 3 blocks of Marauders and 2 Chariots of Chaos Undivided to aid them, and lo and behold, we've only used 840 points, meaning there's 1160 points left.

Now, a Hellcannon to force the enemy towards you is deffinately something good to bring, especially seeing as it can deal with most things heavely armoured, your Chaos Warriors should focus on dealing with lighter armed troops.

Ok, so, that's another 270 points, leaving you with 890 points to play with, in these points, it shouldn't be too hard to throw in two units of Warriors of your chosen mark, I'd almost prefer Khorne for an army like this, due to giving you additional Dispell Dice, as well as extremely fighty Exalted Champions for your Marauder units to don, one or two Exalteds should be enough of a hero-base for this army, heck, the Hellcannon can buy Spellbreaker and one of the Exalteds can get the Collar of Khorne in case you face a magicy-army. Of course, fielding a Slaaneshi contingent of Sorcerors would be ace, however, we must bear in mind one thing, and that is that you only have so many points to play with, a kitted out Sorceror of Slaanesh costs nearly as much as a unit of Marauders, meaning that if you bring two of them, you will only have points for one Warrior unit and one fighty character, it works as well, but if you want more Warriors, you need to ignore magic and instead focus on magical defence in the suggested list

Your Mum Rang
23-07-2007, 12:58
Glad to hear you think it can work!

I usually build to 2250pts so that gives me slightly more space to play with. Khorne might be the way to go since it is so cost-effective. Exalteds are certainly the way to go here, I would also consider adding in a BSB.

Thinking more about theme I am also open to Beast Herds as these can be modeled as skirmishing Marauders. Likewise a unit of Ogres/Minotaurs can be represented by big, hulking Chaos Warriors/Barbarians.

Anyways, I'll write up a few draft lists for myself and post some further thoughts!

Neknoh
23-07-2007, 13:16
At that level, you've still got 1040 points left to play with, which could easely give you 2 units of say, 14 Chaos Warriors, Full Command, mark of Khorne, Shields and Additional Handweapons as well as two semi-naked Exalteds and maybe even a BSB to go in the middle of it all, I mean, Exalted with a Hallberd and the Mark of Khorne is certainly killy enough to support Marauders armed with Greatweapons or Shields, and he costs what, roughly 140 points? So, two of those and then, you should have enough points left for a Battle Standard Bearer, do mind though, do not mark him Khorne, he can then be drawn out of the unit and fooled into charging the opponent, although, having to measure each turn should give you a good enough hint on when it is time to charge with the entire unit so as to avoid your BsB getting dragged out on his own

Your Mum Rang
23-07-2007, 13:25
Sorry to pull a switcheroo on you but I've found some models hat scream Tzeentch and will be building an army with Tzeentch in mind.

So far, I have come up with a bear-bones list of the basics which looks like...

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd @ 176pts
Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd @ 176pts
Aspiring Champion of Tzeentch: BSB - Shield @ 177pts

25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
12 Chaos Warriors: Great Weapons @ 192pts
12 Chaos Warriors: Great Weapons @ 192pts

Hellcannon @ 270pts

1783pts

I have all my special slots available for some chariots or somesuch. I am considering some Chaos Ogres/Minotaurs as I have some nice Rackham models to use.

Neknoh
23-07-2007, 18:38
Hrmm... you've got what, 467 points left, I'd deffinately put a hundred away for your characters, the BsB would benefit from the nice little item named Gaze of the Gods or Armour of Damnation, your other characters would do well with say, a Spell Familliar and something else semi-nifty. This would still leave points for your Hellcannon getting the Spellbreaker.

Now, with still a few hundred points left to play with, I would deffinately consider some Screamers and two Chariots, this would help in deterring enemy flankers, dealing with dodgy wizards and generally annoying the hell out of your opponent, I mean, if you can marchblock him whilst the Hellcannon blasts away, you will get twice as many rounds of firing it

foehammer888
23-07-2007, 22:04
Just a few comments

Chaos Warriors
1) Shields - especially if they are not chosen, they need shields. A basic hand-gun strips all their armor away, and will die in droves. That's bad for a unit that costs as much as they do.
2) Halberds - I've found halberds to be better than great weapons, as the Warriors actually have decent initiative. With Haberd and shield, you get the option of either a 5+ save and S5 attack in close combat, or a 3+ save and a S4 hit, which is a lot of flexibility. Even if you wish to stick with great weapons, I think the shield is a must.
3) Tzeentch - if your general is tzeentch, these guys should really have the mark. Once you pay all those points for chaos warriors and Tzeentch characters, its rather silly to not pay the extra 40 points for 2 bonus power dice.

Other things
- I don't believe the BSB can take a shield. Once he selects a BS, he can't take other equipment options.
- mobility: knights, chariots, chaos hounds are great. You need to get some stuff that will allow you to outmanuver your enemy on the battlefield

foehammer

Belerophon709
23-07-2007, 23:22
I find that Chaos Warriors work best as supporting punch units, working in colaboration with marauders, like they're set up to do in the list you've presented, with the marauders providing the CR and the warriors bringing the punch.

I also highly recommend the halberd/shield option, as it lends versatility and survivability to the unit.

A thing that I see missing from your list is warhounds. Without them to screen, your warriors are pretty much sitting ducks, waiting for the handguns to pellet them into oblivion.

Oh, and on a side note, concerning marks. Slaanesh, imo, is about speed in the list, meaning mostly cavalry, so I'm glad you didn't go that route. However, in a Tzeentch-list, I don't see the warriors playing the 'major' role you seem like you want them to. If I were to make a 'foot-slogger force', I would definately go for Nurgle. Marauders and Warriors in the center, warhounds and Nurglings in front to screen/deter and work with a spawn or two to cover the flanks.

Good luck with the list!

Neknoh
23-07-2007, 23:37
Actually, Slaanesh is about controlling the battle, Speed is just one way of doing so, the main thing Slaanesh uses to controll battle is magic, "Go there", "Don't move" and "Keep him away from anything or he'll charge it" are common things to hear from my side of the table as I cast my spells to left and right.

Belerophon709
24-07-2007, 00:16
Actually, Slaanesh is about controlling the battle, Speed is just one way of doing so, the main thing Slaanesh uses to controll battle is magic, "Go there", "Don't move" and "Keep him away from anything or he'll charge it" are common things to hear from my side of the table as I cast my spells to left and right.

Indeed. I just find that faster units help things along when playing Slaanesh. If you're facing someone who's able to nullify your magic and you have a slow force, you often end up having to accept charges, where you usually would have fled, due to ItP. Of course, this again depends on your baiting-ability and so on, but in general, for Slaanesh, I prefer it fast...

Your Mum Rang
25-07-2007, 13:40
Okay, here's a second go.. added a few Daemons but still fits the theme...

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd - Spell Familiar @ 191pts
Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd - Dispel Scroll @ 201pts
Aspiring Champion of Tzeentch: BSB - Shield - Gaze of the Gods @ 207pts

25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
18 Chaos Warriors: Shields - Full Command - Banner of Wrath @ 350pts
Chaos Chariot @ 120pts
Chaos Chariot @ 120pts

9 Furies @ 135pts
4 Screamers of Tzeentch @ 132pts
Tuskgor (Marauder) Chariot @ 85pts
Tuskgor (Marauder) Chariot @ 85pts

Hellcannon @ 270pts

2250pts

Belerophon709
25-07-2007, 17:10
Question:

Why not give the warriors and the chariots a mark?

Your Mum Rang
25-07-2007, 22:27
Because I do not have the points and I am happy with the level of magic I have...

Belerophon709
25-07-2007, 22:58
Fair enough :D

Your Mum Rang
26-07-2007, 15:08
I'll have to give the army a test. I can see a few things wrong with it but let's see :D

Also. I must confess my love for the Tzeentch BSB. Great value for money! Saves you having to take a caddy!

Kerill
26-07-2007, 15:23
your tzeentch marked characters can't join the undivided warriors though

Your Mum Rang
26-07-2007, 16:12
Ahhh well spotted. I'll have to get the MoT on them now. Any suggestions?

Neknoh
26-07-2007, 22:37
Drop 2 Marauders a Warrior and the illegal shield on your BsB.

Now, buy a mark and have 10 points to play with, remember, despite me beeing rabbid about it earlier, you don't really need 25 Marauders if you're gonna put an Exalted in there, then you only need 24

ROCKY
27-07-2007, 10:09
Okay, here's a second go.. added a few Daemons but still fits the theme...

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd - Spell Familiar @ 191pts
Exalted Champion of Tzeentch: Shield - Halberd - Dispel Scroll @ 201pts
Aspiring Champion of Tzeentch: BSB - Shield - Gaze of the Gods @ 207pts

25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
25 Marauders: Light Armour - Shield - Full Command @ 200pts
18 Chaos Warriors: Shields - Full Command - Banner of Wrath @ 350pts
Chaos Chariot @ 120pts
Chaos Chariot @ 120pts

9 Furies @ 135pts
4 Screamers of Tzeentch @ 132pts
Tuskgor (Marauder) Chariot @ 85pts
Tuskgor (Marauder) Chariot @ 85pts

Hellcannon @ 270pts

2250pts

LOL I love this guy!!! he does marauder charriots too!!!! indeed Tuskgor chariots are almost as effective as chaos chariots and for only 2/3 of the price

Gorthor21
28-07-2007, 03:48
i would really consider dropping the hellcannon. people say that its really good, but you could get so much more useful units for the price of 270 points of deathy cannon.
Marauder Horsemen are something i would consider, since you seem to be going with the bigger marauder theme in general (which is awesome and i think you would have fun if you ran the army with Crom). Hounds are a good thing to have and deffinately put MoT on ur chariots and the unit of warriors. those extra power dice will really come in handy when ur dealing out the multicoloried firey death. with warrior wizards its better to have a great weapon with the Exalteds and just go with arcane items to bolster ur majic ability, since playing Tzeentch is all about dominateing in the majic phase

Neknoh
28-07-2007, 08:03
With a Hallberd, he retains his Innitiative, which allows his characters to beat most Lord level choices out there. As for the hellcannon, a Tzeentchian army requires something to... encourage the enemy to get to them, and to protect it's flanks, remember, Tzeentch spells are many magic missiles and the likes, you don't really want to rush up the field and close personally whilst your opponent is doing the same thing, force them to come to you whilst disrupting the enemy battle plan through panick that spreads from the Hellcannon.

Your Mum Rang
28-07-2007, 12:46
Which is exactly my thinking!

I am not yet 100% happy with this list at the moment. I'm gonna have to have a game with it methinks!