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Dwarf Longbeard
25-07-2007, 19:37
Hi there

I mostly play dwarves and have a unit of 16 Thunders and 16 Quarrellers each have a standard bearer and musician.
Usually I'll equip both units with shields and it wasn't until the other day that I actually wondered is it worth spending the points on arming missile troops with shields?

Now with dwarfs (not sure about other armies) it'll give them an armour save of 5+ which is pretty good for missile troops, but those point could for 4 extra basic warriors so I wondered what people thought about arming missile troops with shields and have they had any good points about doing this or was it a waste of points?


Extra thought does anyone think that the dwarf veteran in a Thunderer and Quarreller unit would have been more useful if he had an extra point of BS instead of an extra attack?

Festus
25-07-2007, 20:13
Hi

The extra attack should have been a giveaway, really!

Dwarf Missile troops can be quite formidable close combat infantry as well and so fill a dual role if equipped with full command and shields.
They are Dwarf Warriors after all, with a very good basic profile! (OK, M is subpar, but you won't need it much with missile troops, I daresay.)

Use them - if equipped - as a Missile unit until the enemy is up close, then add ranks and make them a block of Dwarf Warriors. This versatility costs a few points, but wisely used are well worth it.

Festus

heretics bane
25-07-2007, 20:15
Everything in my armie has shields if i can buy them, its a good investment
and gives them abit more of a chance of survival which makes them even harder to remove

stecal
25-07-2007, 21:15
Definitely have shields, always. My Dwarf quarellers do more fighting than my warriors. Lt arm & sh plus the HW bonus is 4+, nothing to sneeze at.

King Thurgun
26-07-2007, 14:13
20 Thunderers with shields is just not something an opponent wants to charge with ANYTHING. First they stand and shoot you, and then they're almost as hard to kill as all of your other units. Not only do you have the 4+ save, but you also have WS4 and T4 just for being a dwarf. The normal troops the opponent would send towards missile troops to try and get rid of them, eg fast cav or flyers, become useless, and even regular troops will have a really hard time getting them to go. Shields are your best investment for those units.

Dwarf Longbeard
26-07-2007, 18:12
Thanks everyone for the replies thats really helped me look at those units in a new way and I can start looking at them as backup warrior units to protect the flanks if needed

Atzcapotzalco
27-07-2007, 00:16
Hi, just like to agree with my fellow dwarves that our various missile units or better regarded as warriors with a crossbow/handgun than as pure missile units. After all, it's not as if you can easily keep fast units away from an easy target, so I find it best simply not to have weak targets for them to pick on.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
27-07-2007, 11:22
IMO dont give them shields.
dwarves are very defensive and should have a wall of men protecting your missile units. so they should never really get into combat. but those 4 extra men could do quite a lot of damage over the game.

Khorghan
27-07-2007, 11:47
Id say give them sheilds and make them another good unit in combat, althought you could always swap it around, attach shield to the backs of the dwarves and carry the 4 extra ment just incase, when you know the army your facing then decide which to use.

ScreamingDoombull
27-07-2007, 14:02
In my experience, those shields are vicious! I regularly play against 2 dwarf gunlines and the 4+ save the shields give the thunderers has faltered many a charge. I've had beastherds bounce off them due to the sheer resilience of the dwarfs with a good armor save. If you exchanged the shields for extra models, the unit will become weaker in HtH (which is something you should count on getting into. It's not like you can run away!) and that can allow your missile troops to be swept away. I've seen several instances where missile dwarfs shoot, shoot, repel attack, then continue shooting for several turns.
But hey, if you want to make it easier for your opponents, by all means. :p

Mouse_NJ
27-07-2007, 16:46
I agree with the above posters. If your going to invest the points in dwarf missile troops isn't it smart for +1 pt per model to throw on a shield? My hammerers usually have the 5+ ward vs shooting making most units in range have their saves + the ward. If you give that to missile troops your opponent will only shoot at them 1x and then become completely discouraged when he fires a volley of long bows and kills maybe 1 dwarf which you shrug off.

Plus those same HW/SH/LA options have saved me numerous times! Charged in the front by furies, no problem, stand and shoot, then fight hard. Hold them up, watch them run. Every now and then they even get to pull off a flank charge! It really gets into an opponents head when he's thinking "why can't I even kill his missile troops in combat?"

Warhammer fantasy is as much about psychology and getting in your opponents head then tactics and pre-planning. Just simply spending 16 pts on shields in a 16 man unit of quarrellers can do that.

W0lf
27-07-2007, 19:20
im fairly new to fanatsy but have been playing 40k for 5-6 years.

From what i know the shields sound like a FAR better option.

huitzilopochtli
27-07-2007, 19:25
give them shields. brilliant against scouts that shoot you, elves with 30" range, and amazing for when your enemy actually charges you.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
27-07-2007, 19:51
ok, I'm kinda out numbered here, so I'll give in.
would you guys put shields on other armies missile troops? or does it just work spectacularly for dwarves?

Festus
27-07-2007, 20:00
Very good for Dwarfs, good for Darkelves.

Festus

huitzilopochtli
27-07-2007, 20:06
um.. yeah. pretty much everything. i even like skinks to have shields, thinking of converting another unit of blowpipes into javs for that very reason.

Atzcapotzalco
27-07-2007, 20:45
Its a lot more effective for dwarves because their missile troops are already a lot more solid in combat than most other missile troops out there, thanks to their basic statline and light armour as standard. Bolstered further with shields or great weapons, a command group, and one or two(or even three) ranks, they become very much a useful fighting unit with their crossbows as a bonus. For a lot of weaker missile troops from other armies, trying to make them able to stand in close combat is sufficiently hard that it's better not to give away more points when they get into combat and lose, but dwarven crossbowmen can manage it. Further, dwarves lack the mobility to easily protect a weak missile unit from fast moving light enemies, making it more attractive to have stronger missile units to start with.