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View Full Version : How to beat a Tomb Scorpion ???



knightime98
27-07-2007, 07:48
I am playing a WHFB league. Currently, we are at 1500 points. The Tomb King player has the Tomb Scorpion with Killing Blow. It really is a character Assassin point blank. The problem is the thing can pop up and Charge effectively - 28". Yes, 28".... Why do I say that.. Because, when it pops up it has a 360 degree LoS and a 14" charge. So, 14 x 2 (kind of like a wing span) = 28". Of course, the TK player places the guy when he charges DIRECTLY in front of the character. Usually a wizard with no armor...... Need I say more.... I need some help with this freaking unstoppable death machine.... Forget about the sword of fate, the guy won't live long enough to use it!!...

Finnblood
27-07-2007, 07:58
I usually try to suck the impact, maybe feed hims some useless troops to keep him occupied. Of course, this isn't a good option with most armies. The thing is to keep everything you want to have safe away from the markers that indicate where the thing will spawn. Another tactic is to move some large infantry unit on the marker and hope it spawns under them, forcing it to combat.

The best tactic is to kill Hierophant fast. After that, you just have to hold long enough for the TK to crumble.

Which army do you play? Each army has a different tactic to counter the scorpion menace.

knightime98
27-07-2007, 08:12
Empire in this case for the league

Festus
27-07-2007, 08:45
Hi

The problem is the thing can pop up and Charge effectively - 28". Yes, 28".... Why do I say that.. Because, when it pops up it has a 360 degree LoS and a 14" charge. So, 14 x 2 (kind of like a wing span) = 28".
Can you explain again how you come to that ridiculous charge range (taking in account that TK cannot march and all?)

FEstus

sulla
27-07-2007, 08:54
Hi

Can you explain again how you come to that ridiculous charge range (taking in account that TK cannot march and all?)

FEstus

I think he means a 28" sphere of influence since the owning player chooses the facing and can then charge up to 14" in that direction... so when it pops up it could potentially charge anywhere in a big 28" diameter bubble. They are annoying, but mostly only to elves who struggle to hurt high toughness 4 wound creatures. Empire should be able to flee and blast it with artillery, handgunners or outriders.

Festus
27-07-2007, 09:11
Ok, maybe you take this thing too serious, knightime98.

TBH, it may be a threat, but one easily avoided:

First: There is s decent chance that the thing doesn't come at all - and on top of it an even larger chance, that it veers wildly off direction. So it is hardly reliable.

2nd: The average charge range of a TS might seem much, but it cannot choose the facing of a unit it attacks. Have your Mages on the facings away from the TS and you are safe. It has to charge in a straight line, still.

3rd: Any close combat unit should be able to fend off such a creature - for some it's easier, for some harder.

4th: Should it not be able to reach its destination or should it be fought off, it will be dead by shooting in your next turn, surely? Or by counterchargers?

Festus

Gralph!?!
27-07-2007, 11:44
tomb scorpioons aren't that hard, sure when they pop up they can charge in a big area but thats it, bring on your 4 attacks, i can handle them.

basicly if you wanna deal with them then fetus is correct, a good commbat unit can hurt it but not kill it completely which is annoying. if you have a character with magic items then you could possibly enitce the lumbering freak to attack you, with empire i am not sure what items could protect you but there are other options.

stck a unit of great swordson top of the marker, and then watch as it gets its head cut to pieces, since when it arrives, if it arrives on a unit then it counts as charging, and great swords will still get an armour save from it (albeit a crap one) and wil have strength 5, making it much eaiser to wound the bugger.

3 ranks, out number, banner and then the buggger has already lost but it will ignore the wound thing since it ignores 1 anyway. so it means any would you cause will be doubled to a simplified extent. this is also depending on weither or not the scorpian does anything at all.

Ninsaneja
27-07-2007, 14:36
fetus is correct

Fetus and Athragasis are both almost always right.

Atrahasis
27-07-2007, 14:53
Fetus and Athragasis are both almost always right.

I don't know whether to be grateful for the compliment, annoyed by the misspelling, or laugh at the (intended) irony. Could you clear it up for me? :P

lparigi34
27-07-2007, 15:09
As I believe he has written your name like this before, maybe It is going to become something of practical use... eh, Athragasis?:p

Festus
27-07-2007, 15:22
Hi

Thanks for the flowers :)

And no, I do not take offense on the account that my name is spelled wrongly: It is not my real name after all ;)


tomb scorpioons aren't that hard, sure when they pop up they can charge in a big area but thats it, bring on your 4 attacks, i can handle them.

basicly if you wanna deal with them then fetus is correct, a good commbat unit can hurt it but not kill it completely which is annoying. if you have a character with magic items then you could possibly enitce the lumbering freak to attack you, with empire i am not sure what items could protect you but there are other options.

stck a unit of great swordson top of the marker, and then watch as it gets its head cut to pieces, since when it arrives, if it arrives on a unit then it counts as charging, and great swords will still get an armour save from it (albeit a crap one) and wil have strength 5, making it much eaiser to wound the bugger.

3 ranks, out number, banner and then the buggger has already lost but it will ignore the wound thing since it ignores 1 anyway. so it means any would you cause will be doubled to a simplified extent. this is also depending on weither or not the scorpian does anything at all.

Fe(s)tus

Cragspyder
27-07-2007, 15:57
Tomb Scorpions are tough and incredibly useful, but they can be killed.

First of all, if you keep your mage in a ranked unit then even if they manage to charge and kill the mage (by directing attacks against him), it will die afterwards, due to the CR difference. Even if it charges in the flank or rear it is only US 4 so it will still lose by 1 assuming it kills with all 4 attacks.

Anything that poisons is absolutely wonderful at killing them, as their main protection is their T 5. A 5+ armour save doesn't help that much. I had 3 Camo Skinks take one down to 1 wound in 1 round of shooting.

Tomb Scorpions are their best when killing war machines or when supporting a weaker skeleton unit with kills. They are also one of the only models in the TK list that can even halfway deal with knight models (Bone Giant, the SSC and a Tomb King with GW being the others).

Alathir
27-07-2007, 16:17
Any ranked unit, no matter who they are, should be able to beat this thing after a turn or two since it cannot negate ranks, shouldnt outnumber and is only WS 3.

Gorbad Ironclaw
27-07-2007, 17:15
Also, just place something between the scorpion and the character you don't want dead. It can't jump over units or anything like that. So there should be plenty of opportunities to counter the Scorpion.

sulla
27-07-2007, 19:00
Any ranked unit, no matter who they are, should be able to beat this thing after a turn or two since it cannot negate ranks, shouldnt outnumber and is only WS 3.

Sure, but as long as the 85pt scorpion kills your 200pt mage before that, I don't think the TK player will be complaining too much...

Makaber
27-07-2007, 19:11
Are you sure he can move the scorpion 28"? Remember that it can't march, and a charge can't really be declared willy-nilly. He has to have something within that initial 14" charge range, or it will count as a failed charge, so either he'll charge something outright (in which case there's no need to magically move it any further), or it'll move then magically charge, for a total of 21" (which is still admittably very good).

It's not clear from your description of you know this or not, but remember that he can't just make it appear anywhere. It appears at a predesignated location (specified before the game starts), so you know where it'll be coming from and can react accordingly.

Xavier
27-07-2007, 19:20
21" is the most it can move in one turn. And that is with a charge.

Cragspyder
27-07-2007, 19:38
Any ranked unit, no matter who they are, should be able to beat this thing after a turn or two since it cannot negate ranks, shouldnt outnumber and is only WS 3.\

Sadly it is WS 4 :) Unless I've been miswriting that on my roster sheet all this time.

It's widely know that Tomb Scorpions are one of the best models in the TK arsenal. Most, if not all armies, have a similar unit that players would never be without. I've yet to see a Hordes of Chaos army without a unit of Knights, or an O + G army without some cheap 35 point Bolt Throwers, or a Dwarf army without Miners, or a Lizardman army without a Salamander (or three).

knightime98
28-07-2007, 08:03
Ok, maybe you take this thing too serious, knightime98.

TBH, it may be a threat, but one easily avoided:

First: There is s decent chance that the thing doesn't come at all - and on top of it an even larger chance, that it veers wildly off direction. So it is hardly reliable.

2nd: The average charge range of a TS might seem much, but it cannot choose the facing of a unit it attacks. Have your Mages on the facings away from the TS and you are safe. It has to charge in a straight line, still.

3rd: Any close combat unit should be able to fend off such a creature - for some it's easier, for some harder.

4th: Should it not be able to reach its destination or should it be fought off, it will be dead by shooting in your next turn, surely? Or by counterchargers?

Festus

1. It is only a 1 in 6 chance that a misfire will happen. The random scatter die and artillery make it highly unpredictable.
2. Facing away from the TS, now that is something that did not come to mind right away. This is feasable.
3. Agreed, It's pretty much all I take against TK. A bunch of troops (core), not even knights. Bunchs of infantry. It makes him think!
4. I don't take shooting against TK, it is a waste of points.

The reason I say no shooting is because any shooting you take will be charged by the "death machine" (Scorpion), right in a line. Sure you can spread them out but he will have 3 or 4 turns of total devastation with it. So, I remove that as a possibility.

Lastly, one person mentioned Greatswords. I took them last game with the TK player and by chance he charged the Greatswords by accident as I ran away with a detachment. He declared a new charge and I accepted this time. He was not able to charge a unit with a mage in it. I screened one unit with a small detachment that would lead the scorpion away from the unit with the mage in it. The Greatswords suffered one wound but saved it on a 6. I then dealt one wound back. It went poof. So essentially, this little moxy test shows him that I can beat him without artillery, without knights, and just a bunch of guys. It makes for him taking the TS worthless. That's what I am trying to do, my goal! I think it's working. All in all though at the end, that game ended in a draw. As did the one before that as well.

Also, the 28" bubble is the effect that I was talking about. Put the marker anywhere within 4" of where you want to strike and it's a guarantee to hit unless a misfire. You get 14" charge - (scatter of at most 10") = 4".

One last thought, screening with archers or detachments... An afterthought, on these guys. The TS is tough enough to beat those guys. No ranks, only outnumber, and they are not likely to win the combat needing a 6 to wound.

The only saving grace is if the thing misses it's roll to show up on turn 2. Then I can march across the board.

Oh, and the vultures, he does the same thing with the Carrion. Charges the Mages, with the Carrion and lines 2 of them up exactly with the Mage. Hoping to kill the Mage. He is character hunting all day long. It peeves me off a bit. I figure he thinks it's his only chance to beat me points wise.

Now, I am rambling. Your turn! Thanks for your help festus.

Sanjuro
28-07-2007, 10:30
He is character hunting all day long. It peeves me off a bit.

I guess it peeves you off about as much as it peeves him off when you tool up your army against his. :)

Gralph!?!
28-07-2007, 12:03
Hi

Thanks for the flowers :)

And no, I do not take offense on the account that my name is spelled wrongly: It is not my real name after all ;)



Fe(s)tus

whoops. sorry about the spelling there festus, i guess i was typing a bit to fast, that and not checking it.