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T10
29-07-2007, 12:41
Lord of Chaos on Chaos Dragon (653)
- Mark of Chaos Undivided
- Armour of Damnation; Shield
- Sword of Might
- Gaze of the Gods

Aspiring Champion of Chaos (171)
- Mark of Chaos Undivided
- Army Battle Standard Bearer
- Armour of Tortured Souls
- Biting Blade
- Barded Steed of Chaos

Sorcerer of Chaos
- Mark of Chaos Undivided
- Level 2 (prefers Lore of Death)
- Crimson Armour of Dargan
- Sword of Battle
- Barded Steed of Chaos

12 Marauders of Chaos (133)
- Full Command Group
- Light Armour; Shield
- Great Weapon

20 Marauders of Chaos (165)
- Full Command Group
- Light Armour; Shield

10 Warriors of Chaos (215)
- Mark of Khorne
- Heavy Armour; Shield
- Great Weapon

2 x Chariots of Chaos (240)

3 Dragon Ogres (237)
- Light Armour
- Great Weapon

1975 points total

A few notes:
Ok, I'm a few points shy of the full 2000 points. The magical items aren't set in stone, so I'm looking to see if I can get some more units into the army.

The Lord of Chaos carries the Gazo of the Gods because, quite frankly, if he gets turned into a Spawn of Chaos then he's getting what's coming to him.

The Sorcerer is tooled up for close combat, which may look weird. But seriously: the guy's just as good as an Empire Captain except for the attacks! I'm giving it a try, at least. :)

The Chariots serve as baiting units, which on paper looks dumb since a unit of Marauder Horsemen is both faster and cheaper. However, the Chariots have the advantage of being not only an obvious bait but also an obvious trap. Archers/handgunners will have a tough time taking them out in a single round of shooting, as will most artillery. They can reliably withstand a charge from light cavalry. Obvioulsy they aren't perfect - an enenmy can simply charge them with his own chariots and turn the table on me. So that's why I want to back them up with a cheap sweeper unit of horsemen.

The Dragon Ogres rock the socks! Their Strenth 7 great weapons is pure overkill pleasure, but it's the Movement 7 that makes them hard to replace.

So, what can you do for me? Well, what you always do - offer nice advice or cruel ridicule. I'll read all your comments.

-T10

Lord Steven
29-07-2007, 13:40
I'd drop the aspiring champ completely.

Then I'd make the sorcerer a lev1 scroll caddy on a horse (putting her with a unit of marauder horsemen and then hiding her later on).

Lose all of the infantry.

Get a couple of units of knights of khorne with no command. Some screamers / furies (or both) would be good too.

Couple of units of dogs..

Lastly, some spawns of slaanesh.

I realise you'll be hard pressed to find the points. Perhaps drop the 2 chariots for a unit of minotaurs to save some extra.

Then with the army very fast you can pick your battles. Take out every support unit the opponent has then take down the hard units later on in the game.

Finnigan2004
29-07-2007, 13:44
I agree, dump the infantry and add knights and hounds. I just find chaos infantry too slow for it's very high cost.

Makaber
30-07-2007, 02:03
I really dislike the general trend of people, when seeking advice about their lists, are met with responses that directly translates to "Drop the entire concept. Conform to my concept instead."

Elays
30-07-2007, 02:19
I agree with Makaber. T10 said he had some ideas he wanted to try out and enumerated several of them. Instead of telling why it's horrible and will never work, look for a way to (and this is the important part for this entire forum) IMPROVE UPON WHAT IS ALREADY THERE. And if you really must disparage the author's work, please give reasons.

That being said, I am not the most familiar with Chaos and its machinations but from my take at the list, here's a try. For both the sorcerer and the champion, I would suggest losing the steeds. Firstly because steeds = no joining units = pin-cushiony death (and I play wood elves, I should know about pin-cushiony death). Put the Standard bearer in the center of the infantry line so as to get the most benefit. The sorceror could go most anywhere, but I'd put him in the smaller marauder unit. Now as I envision your army tactically, I'm seeing the Lord and Dragon jumping in the fray really early, preferably attacking war machines and missile troops first. And while they're trying to react to the Lord, the main line of infantry steadily approaches. I would suggest putting the ogres and warriors in the center and allowing the marauders to act as flank guards/chargers. The chariots could be used in a couple different ways. Perhaps range them in front of the line to elicit charges and counter-charge with infantry (though likely death for the chariots in the process) or allow them to roll down a flank should your dragon have not sufficiently distracted the enemy.

Hope that helps!

Kerill
30-07-2007, 04:27
Its hard not to change things to your own list, I think the infantry here are generally a solid mix though. Khorne warriors are on of the few units worth their cost as far as warrior infantry goes and help shore up your magic defence.

For your combat sorcerer why not take the warrior familiar rather than the sword of battle- a guaranted S5 hit is much better than an extra S4 attack or +1 to hit. Also gives you the option of fire magic for the flaming sword (in which case a spell familiar might be a good choice). The crimson armour isn't really worth it here IMHO, he already has a 2+ save and T4, use the 20 points for something else. A riskier option would be the berserker sword and mounted on a daemonsteed. A lot more attacks but easier to kill, I'm not sure if he is allowed the enchanted shield (but I guess not) also gives immunity to fear to your marauders which is handy against undead and chaos.

Armour ofn damnation and gaze of gods is a bit of overkill really. Gaze of gods against shooting would be enough. Then with the spare points either get him the enchanted shield (for 7 points a bargain) or drop the sword of might, give him a halberd and the book of secrets- another power die and another dispel die and a magic missile to cast when you are roasting your opponents with dragons breath with a bit of luck you might get a panic test (from the breath) and then a panic test from the magic missile in the magic phase. This will also give you 5 PD for a chance to get a spell through (1 level 2 will not get anything off- assuming 2 scroll caddies they have 4 DD to your 4PD). Will also give you 5 DD rather than 4- your army is lacking a lot in magic defence at the minute with no scrolls (don't take a scroll caddy though- that blows :) ). Hell you could have a halberd gaze of gods, book of secrets and enchanted shield for a 2+ save 4+ ward against shooting and the choice of 2+ save or S6 4+ save in h-t-h

Other than that the army looks good, cannons being the only worry which a unit of furies could take care of nicely.

Dropping the armour from your lord leaves it available for the bsb (saving 10 points) and offering better protection than the tortured souls.

Finally @Elays- the character riding steeds cannot be picked out by shooting anymore (7th edition rule change) only models with US5 or more can be targetted.

At present a unit of fliers (6-7 furies_would help the lord hunt down war machines and can charge from the rear for +2CR or for crossfire killing the enemy. You could also use them to screen the dragon ogres for a turn or two since in this list they will certainly be the focus of enemy fire.

dragon ogres are cool and slaughter cavalry but only three will struggle against ranked infantry, consider 4.

Also consider dropping the 12 man marauder unit for horsemen. If not consider norse marauders rather than normal marauders for the frenzy. Or make the unit bigger. the larger unit of marauders could also do with a bit of bulking out, raise it to 23 and with the sorcerer they will be 5*5.

Once you try it out why not write up a battle rep for us :)

Punk_in_Drublic
30-07-2007, 10:39
I really dislike the general trend of people, when seeking advice about their lists, are met with responses that directly translates to "Drop the entire concept. Conform to my concept instead."

Quoted for frikkin truth. "Everybody" knows that the easiest route with chaos is to go with a fast and hard striking army. To tell him to sack his entire concept is just plain arrogance and not helpful at all, just because he post a list that is just outside the norm.

working with what we have here, I'd say free up some point from the characters and at least incorporate 2x5 dawgs. I also think a unit of furies is sound advice.

Later,

-Punk

Lord Steven
30-07-2007, 15:28
Completely agree. Work with the list at hand guys.

DesertDirge
30-07-2007, 16:38
actually keeping the infintry is cool because they might make it to combat with a magnet (dragon) flying around.

Punk_in_Drublic
30-07-2007, 19:12
Completely agree. Work with the list at hand guys.

:wtf: did you even read your last post in this thread? :D

Later,

-Punk

T10
31-07-2007, 08:14
Its hard not to change things to your own list, I think the infantry here are generally a solid mix though. Khorne warriors are on of the few units worth their cost as far as warrior infantry goes and help shore up your magic defence.

(...)

Once you try it out why not write up a battle rep for us :)

Thanks! I see I can work with the item selection. :)

I'd like to keep the Sword of Might, but taking a halberd and the Enchanted Shield does shave a few points. Worth looking into.

The BSB can probably benefit from being trimmed back to just basic equipment and then I can have a look at what's left once I've played around with the freed-up points.

The Sorceror needs a bit of work. Taking a Warrior Familiar isn't a bad idea, but it comes at just a bit too many points to allow for a Dispel Scroll as well. I'll keep working on the combat angle.

-T10

theunwantedbeing
31-07-2007, 08:36
Your lord doesnt really need his armour.Seeing as things will be getting shot at him,and when he is in combat,unless its something stupidly hard like a blood dragon vampire there wont be any attacks coming his way.

The aspiring champion is good,I'de probably give him the armour of damnation and the sword of might personally,just as it makes him hit that little bit harder and he's so much harder to actually hit in combat.

Hmmm a single level 2 sorcerer wont do a lot,personally I wouldnt even bother with him.
Use the saved points to buy a bunch of warhounds to act as screens for your army,as its foot based it would help you a fair bit by having them(even though the dragon is likely to draw a fair bit of fire).

The benefit is being able to have 7 units of 5 hounds,thats a complete screen across your entire army,
Most armies cant deal with 7 threats at a time by shooting,plus you'll be keeping your dragon out of the way of shooting troops where possible(he should be going for a flank attack,he's usually out of line of sight there).

The hounds will then threaten war machines and such,plus most importantly you can very easily deploy your dragon after your opponent has deployed any artillery,sure your forgoing the +1 that the average chaos army almost expects to get for the first turn but it'll be worth it to know that your opponent has to deploy most of his army before you've even started deploying yours.

If you "really" want a scroll caddy then take the book of secrets on your general and a couple of scrolls.

Thats what I would do anyway......Im not you,but I hope I put some idea's into your head.

Punk_in_Drublic
31-07-2007, 09:24
Sound advice from unwanted, IMO, although you could go crazy from all those dawgs. I don't really get the melee wizard idea. Unless you can dazzle me with a wizard that pack as much punch as a hero with mark of tzeench. It would be fun if it could be done, though :) How about a wargor with MoS?

Beast shaman, 2x dispel scrolls 125 pts. ;)

Later,

-Punk