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arkle
01-08-2007, 14:51
I was on the phone to a friend the other day as he told be how he was setting himself up as an independent trader. He told me how he was going to charge 13.50 per regiment box and that according to the local GW store regiment boxes are rising to 20 in the near future so his pricing will be even better.

Maybe he was mistaken by what they said, as I find it hard to believe red shirts giving warnings of price rises.

Hopefully someone will be able to confirm or put to bed this rumour.

ExquisiteEvil
01-08-2007, 15:11
If GW put up their prices to 20quid for a regiment it will most definately be the nail in the coffin theyve just built for themselves.

Brinnyunlimited
01-08-2007, 15:15
He told me how he was going to charge 13.50 per regiment box

Well if that's true, he'll be selling them at a loss, so unless he's planning on breaking into GW HQ everynight to steal his shops stock, I wouldn't read too much into what he says.

erion
01-08-2007, 15:15
Given that the annual price hikes happen in July (at least in the US), they'd have to be planning pretty far in advance.

tarvitz36
01-08-2007, 15:17
was just going to say, redshirts always give warnings of price rises as they have to or their bosses hit them with sticks and gwhasnt hid thispricerise they have always been open with me saying that they will be going up to twenty.

doesnt bother me just means more painting and spendng time making my toys look nice before i buy next box, gw will still get their money from me, theyll just have to wait longer for it at a time.

Stella Cadente
01-08-2007, 15:18
YAY another price hike *prepares to lay siege to GWHQ* now just confirm that and I'll kill everyone inside

redbaron998
01-08-2007, 15:19
I agree ExquisiteEvil, if they do that I will totally leave out of Principle. I am finishing my Eldar army this fall, and would really like to start a Fantasy army..but if they did this they can forget about it

scarletsquig
01-08-2007, 15:27
I think this has been on the cards for a while, and is probably overdue.

The new fantasy regiments are already 24 each, so 20 for the 40k ones isn't exactly shocking.

blongbling
01-08-2007, 16:16
what fantasy regiments are 24 each?

redbaron998
01-08-2007, 16:17
Right now a full size fantasy box (about 16 models) is 35 USD, a 40k squad (10-20) is 35 USD...if it were to go higher GW would go under faster than you can say Imperium

Stella Cadente
01-08-2007, 16:18
what fantasy regiments are 24 each?

Empire come in units of 10 for 12, therefore to get a PROPER regiment, it costs 24

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
01-08-2007, 16:38
Wow, if true they're mad. How many people will turn to other companies for their toys...?

Polonius
01-08-2007, 16:42
Wow, if true they're mad. How many people will turn to other companies for their toys...?

Surprisingly few. Sure, a few folks drop out at every price hike, but you hear a lot of sturm and drang, and people keep buying the stuff. Don't forget, the crazy price hikes started about 8 years ago, and folks still keep starting the hobby.

Sarevok
01-08-2007, 16:45
Surprisingly few. Sure, a few folks drop out at every price hike, but you hear a lot of sturm and drang, and people keep buying the stuff. Don't forget, the crazy price hikes started about 8 years ago, and folks still keep starting the hobby.

Umm, have you read the latest financial report?
GW's profits have been diving for a few years now, so I'd say plenty of people have left because of the prices; or at least are buying alot less.

starlight
01-08-2007, 16:47
Given the onset of Apocalypse, I'm not seeing this as a surprise (if it's true). Offering bulk deals and then raising the price of components isn't new by any stretch.

Besides it isn't supported by the price list that made the rounds, so.....

grickherder
01-08-2007, 16:47
Surprisingly few. Sure, a few folks drop out at every price hike, but you hear a lot of sturm and drang, and people keep buying the stuff. Don't forget, the crazy price hikes started about 8 years ago, and folks still keep starting the hobby.

But not enough of them to make of up for those walking out the door. Check the sales of the last few years-- steady decline.

Sarevok
01-08-2007, 16:47
what fantasy regiments are 24 each?

I think they did 20 Black orcs for 24, but stopped doing it? Regular price is 15 for 10.

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
01-08-2007, 16:49
I don't know anyone that regularly buys GW stuff and I got to 2 different clubs. Many buy 2nd hand, loads have branched out into different wargaming rules.

As far as the rumour goes, I believe it will happen. The people in GW that set prices go by the mantra, "Price it as high as you can, they'll pay."

ExquisiteEvil
01-08-2007, 16:56
maybe the 'more focus on sales' Kirby was refering to was an increase in price to obviously increase profit.

:rolleyes:

yeah - like that really works

Darkseer
01-08-2007, 17:00
Sooner or later there will be a price hike too far.

redbaron998
01-08-2007, 17:02
If a price hike was Kirbys vision than they are more FAT AND LAZY than even we thought...they must be around 400lbs each!

But seriously, I hope GW doesnt do this, I love warhammer and want it to get back up, but if they increase price more Ill leave it anyways, Warmachine is great as well and is growing, they have a great managment teams and such and the models are ace and you need less of them, I can buy 2 or 3 500 point armies (thier avarge) for the price of one 2k army for GW....and thats all metal...and better quality...with some great rules...GW get your butt in shape or sell the IP and stuff to someone who will

Griefbringer
01-08-2007, 17:13
Empire come in units of 10 for 12

And I have a feeling that most new plastic releases in future will be in units of 10 (with a splash release version with 20 or 30 guys inside), at least the black orcs and dwarf miners are heavily hinting to that direction.

I guess for fantasy some troop types that have big minimum unit sizes (goblins, skaven) could still see boxes of 20 as the norm.

sheck2
01-08-2007, 18:00
And I have a feeling that most new plastic releases in future will be in units of 10


I agree, but I think the intention is to reduce the price point overall. Such as OLD 10 metal black orcs were $40...NEW 10 plastic orcs are $20. In a like manner were dwarf miners - OLD 10 metal at $40...NEW 10 plastic at $22.

Similarly the re-packaged dwarf specials (which were not get redone in plastic)...OLD 10 metal dwarf specials (hammer and ironbreaker) were $40 (plus add in command blisters of $12)...NEW are 5 metal at $20 with a command box of 5 at $22.

I think the pattern will be 10 plastics per box and 5 metal per box to get to $20ish something each i.e. a reasonable price point.

ExquisiteEvil
01-08-2007, 18:07
And so please tell me where is the value, to me as a consumer , of giving me less models for the same/more money than their material equivlents.

Why do empire state troops cost 24 for a regiment when before they were 18? Its the same plastic - just less of it.

Wheres my value?

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
01-08-2007, 18:10
A-ha, that's part of the GW vision of raising the perceived value of plastic in the eyes of the wargaming world. It's hogwash, the profitability of plastic is enormous in comparison to metal. Plastics are fantastic and flexible but metal is better as far as quality goes.

I just don't think it's a fair price for their product. GW intentionally drive their prices up for the reason of profits. It is already hurting them and their greed and lack of ability to successfully manage the company will cause them further grief. More importantly it will cause grief to the people that they make redundant due to their mis-management.

Huw_Dawson
01-08-2007, 18:17
As long as people carry on buying intelligently (i.e. in battalions and megaboxs) then all that price rises will mean is that they keep getting better and better in value.

This smells a bit iffy to me too - It's not in the price list pdf that's floating around at the moment, so any rumoured price hike (that will come eventually, if due to new boxes with even more bitz or a weakening/strengthening UK economy) must be at least 6 months off. I guess a piece of talking out of an unusual orifice. ;)

- Huw

Vic
01-08-2007, 21:33
OR, the price hike could be a result of the publication of the financials? just speculating mind you.....

arkle
01-08-2007, 22:23
I was never posting this as confirmation, just what my friend had been told. I was actually hoping a more informed member of warseer would be able to confirm the rumour and dismiss it as nothing more than red shirt ramblings.


Well if that's true, he'll be selling them at a loss, so unless he's planning on breaking into GW HQ everynight to steal his shops stock, I wouldn't read too much into what he says.

He is setting up as a independed for personal use mainly and to supply the local clubs. If he does charge 13.50 he is only offering a 25% discount. I don't believe for one moment that he would be selling at a loss at only 25% discount, as internet companies offer around the same discount rates while he is just hoping to make a little on the side. He will be able to purchase blisters for 50-60%rrp so I should imagine its the around the same for plastics.

starlight
02-08-2007, 00:12
GW gives Trade accounts (Indies) 40% off their retail prices, so you do the math...

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
02-08-2007, 00:34
GW gives Trade accounts (Indies) 40% off their retail prices, so you do the math...

It's only 35% in the UK!

starlight
02-08-2007, 00:36
That sucks. 40% is pretty much the minimum that any store in North America would tolerate. If they didn't do that, no one would carry their stuff.

redbaron998
02-08-2007, 00:41
0% discount at my independent...but 20% at my new one : )

starlight
02-08-2007, 00:45
That's to customers, we were talking what *GW* gives to the stores. At 20% off retail, the store is only making $2 on a $10 item instead of $4. Not good for the long term unless they know they can make up the difference in significantly increased volumes..:(

Crazy Harborc
02-08-2007, 02:22
Sooner or later there will be a price hike too far.

Well, based on the just released financial results........IMHO, for a larger than last time number of customers, the "too far" price hike arrived.

Putty
02-08-2007, 04:05
They can hike all they want... i'm short of a few purchases to completing my armies and once i'm done, i won't even contemplate starting a necron or tyranid army which i was going to.

Yo GW, you lost me as a loyal customer.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
02-08-2007, 11:39
quoted from original poster = I was on the phone to a friend the other day as he told be how he was setting himself up as an independent trader. He told me how he was going to charge 13.50 per regiment box and that according to the local GW store regiment boxes are rising to 20 in the near future so his pricing will be even better.

Maybe he was mistaken by what they said, as I find it hard to believe red shirts giving warnings of price rises.

Hopefully someone will be able to confirm or put to bed this rumour.


Well if that's true, he'll be selling them at a loss, so unless he's planning on breaking into GW HQ everynight to steal his shops stock, I wouldn't read too much into what he says.


he wont be making a loss, currently the 18.00 box sets are at 9.96 before vat, a 20 box will be 11.06 before vat, if they do go up he will be making aprox 70p on each box set

Mad Doc Grotsnik
02-08-2007, 11:56
Sounds like a load of bobbins and scare mongering to me.

I'll ask the chaps tonight when I go for my games.....

colmarekblack
02-08-2007, 12:25
Hmmm looks interesting, should have expected it with the publication of the financial report.

I get most of my models second-hand and my paint brushes from a local hobby shop. The only thing I buy from GW is the paint which no doubt will go up as well. I'll ask tonight but knowing GW's penchant for secrecy they'll deny it till last moment.

Luthien
02-08-2007, 13:40
They can't honestly be stupid enough to raise prices again, they've gone up at least twice since i joined the hobby and it really is losing them money, well it's losing my local store money at any rate. My money

colmarekblack
02-08-2007, 13:52
YAY another price hike *prepares to lay siege to GWHQ* now just confirm that and I'll kill everyone inside

I'll bring the Heavy mortars and Hellbreakers (bigger Earth shaker gun) :evilgrin:

forthegloryofkazadekrund
03-08-2007, 08:13
did anyone find out anything else about this one, either way???

Osbad
03-08-2007, 09:19
If there is a price rise then all Kirby's talk about trying to please the customer again will be shown to be so much hot air.

I really hope that the reason there may be some confusion (other than perhaps just blueshirts getting their info in a knot) is because there may have been a price rise planned, but it got cancelled.

A price rise at this point in time could really kill off the company altogether as prices are beyond ridiculous at this point in time: The new Orc General on foot is eight quid. WTF? No special bits, it's not a special whizzy character, no special base, and yet it is eight quid...

Absolutely bloomin' stupid prices.

Sure you can get a battalion box for less than the price of a Range Rover, but those are one-off purchases. Pricing individual figures like this just kills off the impulse buy.

Anyhow, we shall see.

generulpoleaxe
03-08-2007, 12:20
price rise or not, the price of metal has gone up 50% this year (that's what happens when a single country controls the majority of a single resoursce and that resource is used for ammunition manufacturing)

prices will go up, if not this year then next year they will, the price of metal is getting silly.

Osbad
03-08-2007, 12:54
And that affects plastic models how?

And in any case, their metals prices are already pretty much as high as anyone, way higher than that of many "independent" manufacturers who have to face higher metals costs because they buy in smaller quantities and therefore don't get GW's economies of scale.

When they increased the price of a single metal goblin (LotR Goblin Shaman) to 6 they had already passed the point of silliness. Any further price rises are sod-all to do with the price of metal, and everything to do with trying to skin the customer for as much money in return for as little product as possible...

monkey child
03-08-2007, 13:09
And that affects plastic models how?

And in any case, their metals prices are already pretty much as high as anyone, way higher than that of many "independent" manufacturers who have to face higher metals costs because they buy in smaller quantities and therefore don't get GW's economies of scale.

When they increased the price of a single metal goblin (LotR Goblin Shaman) to 6 they had already passed the point of silliness. Any further price rises are sod-all to do with the price of metal, and everything to do with trying to skin the customer for as much money in return for as little product as possible...

Indeed on the second page of their reporty thing, GW actually state that raw materials are only 4% of the overall costs and they will not affect profits.

". The cost of raw materials, such as metal and plastic, represents no more than 4% of our sales and therefore we do not believe that the price volatility of these inputs represents a significant threat to our long-term profitability. In the short term our buying team continues to work to minimise these risks and the people in our manufacturing and supply functions continue to seek process efficiencies to offset any cost impact.
"

generulpoleaxe
03-08-2007, 13:39
[QUOTE=Osbad;1798408]And that affects plastic models how?

QUOTE]

they know they can't increase metals without a drastic loss in sales, so the plastics will go up slightly to make up for it. maybe not a direct price rise, but a rise in how much people pay for the same number of miniatures none the less.

any expense in business in passed on to the customer, any saving is passed on to the directors.
gw are no different to any other plc.

Osbad
03-08-2007, 14:16
BUt that's not how GW pricing works. GW openly state they operate at a 70% Gross Margin. Also they openly state that raw materials prices are only around 4% of costs. Even doubling that raw materials costs will only make a tiny dint in their 70% gross margin. In comparison to the costs of operating their retail operation and overheads (pretty much all of the balance of that 70%) the effects of metals costs are miniscule. In other words an increase of metlas prices of 50% will only increase the cost of manufacture by a few pence per model.

GW already pitch their prices at what they think the market can bear. If they think it can bear a little more they will increase them further, if they believe it can't then they won't.

Metals prices will have to increase a LOT more than they have to impact on a purchaser with GW's economic structure. On the other hand with a boutique operator like Heresy, it will have a much larger impact. For small operators their Gross Margins are much lower than GW as they just don't have the economies of scale GW has. They make a profit though because neither do they have the overheads. Fluctuiations in the order of 50% in metals prices will hit these guys hard.

In a perverse way, rising metals prices will benefit GW not harm it as it will cause problems for their competitors (who are all smaller than them) before it impacts them directly.

generulpoleaxe
03-08-2007, 14:38
totaly agree on how it effects smaller business a lot more, but what you have to remember is gw sells a lot more plastics than metals, that's why their material costs seem so low.

Osbad
03-08-2007, 15:18
BUt isn't that why GW sell plastics at 50p - 1 each for human size non-heroes, and metals for 2.33 - 8 each.

Obciously the cost of moulds and tooling etc are factored in, but still an average gross margin of 70% gives them a lot of flexibility.

Without the actual numbers though we are just guessing.

Bottom line is my cynical side actually agrees that GW would probably use a rise in the cost of metal to excuse an increase in plastic prices...

forthegloryofkazadekrund
03-08-2007, 15:25
when was the last rise for the box sets which were 15 (now 18) and the one from 12 to 15, that way it might be a rough indicator - not fool proof of when they might put them up - if not would be interesting to know

generulpoleaxe
03-08-2007, 17:57
osbad, the plastics are start at a pound each and go up from there.
18 for 12 men is 1.50 each. and boxes vary between 12 and 20 (most 16)

the next increase will probably be slipped into the christmas army release (they are getting good at that)

Mad Doc Grotsnik
03-08-2007, 18:00
Well, I asked the guys last night, and they know nothing of it. One of them actually laughed....

So that seems pretty good arguement that the OPs source has made it up.

simonr1978
03-08-2007, 18:04
osbad, the plastics are start at a pound each and go up from there.
18 for 16 men is 1.50 each.

the next increase will probably be slipped into the christmas army release (they are getting good at that)

16 men at 1.50 each would be 24 in total.

Wintermute
03-08-2007, 18:20
he wont be making a loss, currently the 18.00 box sets are at 9.96 before vat

No they are not.

The price of 9.96 is the cost price to the store of the box set.

VAT is calculated at 17.5%.

9.96 plus VAT @ 17.5% is not 18.00 but 11.70.

To get an idea of how a retail price in the UK is calculated try this:
multiply the cost price by 1.7625

eg 9.96 x 1.7625 = 17.55.

Now round this up to the nearest pound and you get 18.00 which is the selling price.

generulpoleaxe
03-08-2007, 22:29
16 men at 1.50 each would be 24 in total.


typed the wrong number in, fixed know (thanks for pointing it out)

Templar Ben
03-08-2007, 22:53
No they are not.

The price of 9.96 is the cost price to the store of the box set.

VAT is calculated at 17.5%.

9.96 plus VAT @ 17.5% is not 18.00 but 11.70.

To get an idea of how a retail price in the UK is calculated try this:
multiply the cost price by 1.7625

eg 9.96 x 1.7625 = 17.55.

Now round this up to the nearest pound and you get 18.00 which is the selling price.

Thank you for that handy tip. Does that hold roughly for other countries as well?

Crazy Harborc
04-08-2007, 01:39
when was the last rise for the box sets which were 15 (now 18) and the one from 12 to 15, that way it might be a rough indicator - not fool proof of when they might put them up - if not would be interesting to know

Can't speak for the rest of the world. In the USA, prices have increased at least once every 11-12 months for ohhhhh 6 years.:confused:

Mikhaila
04-08-2007, 02:58
This years was pretty tame though, only 5 bucks on the 3 core boxes, and 2 bucks on codexes.

Had an interesting thing happen last night though. A customer brought in some items for our auction on Sunday. This is usually bitz boxes, stuff you don't want, things you buy and decide to paint, etc. Lots of old stuff, not lots of quality. It gets swapped around and we all take home another persons trash.

This collection had a ton of unopened boxes, entire armies that got bought, and never got put together and painted. Among them were 5 boxes of Space Ork boys. Prices started at 22.95, then went to 25.00, 30.00 and finally 35.00
A testimony both to how much those have gone up, and how ******* long it's been since the Orks got a new codex and some new models.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
04-08-2007, 08:28
Originally Posted by forthegloryofkazadekrund

he wont be making a loss, currently the 18.00 box sets are at 9.96 before vat
No they are not.

The price of 9.96 is the cost price to the store of the box set.

VAT is calculated at 17.5%.

9.96 plus VAT @ 17.5% is not 18.00 but 11.70.

To get an idea of how a retail price in the UK is calculated try this:
multiply the cost price by 1.7625

eg 9.96 x 1.7625 = 17.55.

Now round this up to the nearest pound and you get 18.00 which is the selling price.
__________________

Originally Posted by philbrad
As ever WINTERMUTE speaks the truth
The Warseers Chapter of


erm isnt that similar to what i said, the original poster said his friend was going to sell them at 13.50 for a 18.00 box set and i was saying how much the box to independents cost because someone said he was going to make a loss on each box, and i said he wouldnt because they are 9.96 before vat but if they go up to 20.00 he will be paying 11.06 before vat

Wintermute
04-08-2007, 09:18
Thank you for that handy tip. Does that hold roughly for other countries as well?

No its only applicable to the UK.





erm isnt that similar to what i said, the original poster said his friend was going to sell them at 13.50 for a 18.00 box set and i was saying how much the box to independents cost because someone said he was going to make a loss on each box, and i said he wouldnt because they are 9.96 before vat but if they go up to 20.00 he will be paying 11.06 before vat


Yes, I see what you mean.

After deducting the VAT and the cost price he is left with 1.53 from which to take his profits/overheads etc.

grickherder
04-08-2007, 09:44
He better sell a lot of volume :D

zak
04-08-2007, 20:28
Having read the Annual Report GW are looking to get back to their core support, ie US! I don't see GW achieving this by whacking up their prices again. I actually predict certain stuff coming out cheaper or in larger quantities or I can see GW inb theie current guise going under.