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Malorian
01-08-2007, 18:53
Arch Lector w/ heavy armor, shield, barded horse, hammer of judgement

Warrior priest w/ heavy armor, shield, barded horse, dispell scroll

Warrior priest w/ heavy armor, shield, barded horse, dispell scroll

Captain w/ full plate, barded horse and griffin banner

35 Spearmen w/ shields, FC
->Detachment 1: 15 Spearmen
->Detachment 2: 15 Spearmen

20 Spearmen w/ shields, FC
->Detachment 1: 10 Spearmen
->Detachment 2: 10 Spearmen

20 Spearmen w/ shields, FC
->Detachment 1: 10 Spearmen
->Detachment 2: 10 Spearmen

20 Spearmen w/ shields, FC
->Detachment 1: 10 Spearmen
->Detachment 2: 10 Spearmen

20 spearmen 100
->Detachment 1: 10 Spearmen

20 spearmen 100
->Detachment 1: 10 Spearmen

Total: 1992

This is based on a historical army so the list can't really change (must be 98% spearmen, 2% heavy horsemen)

Do you think it can win? Basically my idea is a hero in each parent unit (BSB in largest one) and against most armies just walk up and counter charge the best I can, with the heros charging anything weak that tries to stay just out of range of the spearmen.

Da Black Gobbo
01-08-2007, 19:01
Your spearmen detachmen cannont be that big, it must be half or less the size of the principal regiment so only 10 spearmens in each detachmen except the first one that could have 12 men strong detachmen, anyways is very bored to play and it will not work, tell me what are you going to do against dwarfs with heavy armours and cannons? or against 2 hellblasters? a bretonian army will break you into pieces charging your detachmens, the empire have lots and lots of different units don't get stucked in only one, get handgunners, outriders, pistoliers, knightly orders the great and crazy flagelants! you got things to chose don't get only one ;)

Lucky24/7
01-08-2007, 19:03
well first its not allowed ( detacments range from 5 models to 50% of the parent unit)

2nd well possibly .... just cant see where there is any hitting power. But it dose have the hord factor at 200+ models, but it would just be tricy to bring this bear.

Also just put ur heros and lords into a unit with ranks. use there leader ship there (take a 5 man knigh unit) and then use the griffon standrad in a unit of 30 models in a 5*6 formation to get +6 for ranks, alwyas fun

Malorian
01-08-2007, 19:03
It HAS to be spearmen as this is based on a historical army... I'd love to take other units trust me... I'll fix that detachment thing though.

Crube
01-08-2007, 19:06
nce you make the list legal ( as previous posts) it would be very hard to win with.

It's trying to be a horde army, without the specific special rules and tricks. No firepower to speak of, and your characters are going to be a relatively easy target.

A small unit of knights may be usable (5 knights, 1 character, put other characters on foot) and you'll only be at 3% heavy cavalry...

Spoonie
01-08-2007, 19:09
Here's the reality of the situation - It's going to suck. Hard. Historical armies of the period didn't have to deal with units of black orcs and dwarf ironbreakers. I'd either take a look at a little later time period or make some exceptions on your historical accuracy.

Yes and even other things aside, having one unit of knights would be a much better representation of a historical army with little heavy cavalry than just having 4 lone dudes riding around.

Malorian
01-08-2007, 19:13
Surely if I try charge baiting with one of the detachments, or just letting one get smashed, they run into one unit, and then counter charge.

I mean do you really think it'll lose that badly? Would it help if I worked on the sizes to get some smaller groups to do moer baiting and redirecting?

Malorian
01-08-2007, 19:16
having one unit of knights would be a much better representation of a historical army with little heavy cavalry than just having 4 lone dudes riding around.

Granted... I thought about that but I needed atleast 250 spearmen to have 5 cav (to keep 2% quota), since I'm a little short I just made the characters the cav. It was my little cheat that I thought would actually help me...

Tarliyn
01-08-2007, 19:20
I think it could be possible to win with this army if you play smarter with your guys.

You will have a hard time though and I don't think it would be the most fun army to play.

I think it is cool that you are trying to make a historical army, but you may need to fudge on it a tad for praticalities sake.

Crube
01-08-2007, 19:23
The lone characters on horse will die very quickly. Not only losing your cavalry, but your leadership too...

At least by changing the cavalry around as i mentioned in my last post, you may get a bit more survivability out of them.

Is there really that much difference between 2 and 3% heavy cav

The no opponent worth his salt will be lured in to a charge against this type of army. A dwarf army will shoot the hell out of you with warmachines, and handgins, Wood Elfs will run rings round you, shooting you, and picking their targets. High Elfs with the rumoured strike first rule, will beat you up, and shoot you, Chaos will generally muller you in CC, but you may have a chance, purely because they dont have the numbers, skaven and O&Gs will run you close for numbers of models, but have the special rules and units to back them up.

Basically I think this sort of army will really struggle. This isnt a historical game, it's a fantasy game - I think this is why for me it wont work. Both on a game level and an aesthetics/fluff level. It may be historically accurate, but not in the history of the Empire....

Spoonie
01-08-2007, 19:32
Yeah things like chosen warriors of khorne can walk through basically an unlimited amount of empire state troops, and the detachments usually add as much to their CR as they take away. Fortunatly the empire has cannons and hand guns to take care of this problem, but without them the really tough elite infantry are going to be tough. Even black orcs have a good shot at beating empire spearmen even if they get hit with a detachment.

Da Black Gobbo
01-08-2007, 19:40
why you say even black orcs? black orcs are very good.

Malorian
01-08-2007, 19:46
As far as fudging I thought of using halberdiers for detachment (close to spearmen) but I want to stay true.

As far as the lone characters, they aren't lone. There are 4 of them and 4 parent units. But they can ride out if needed.

I will suffer against shooting armies, but then I just put one detachment in from and march on. I should still make it to them with enough to put up a fight.

Spoonie
01-08-2007, 20:02
Well I said "even" black orcs because the only other thing I mentioned were chosen chaos warriors of khorne with extra hand weapons. Blorcs are slightly less dangerous, so I felt it was warranted.

Malorian
01-08-2007, 20:07
Well yes, a unit of 20 chaos knights with full command and a couple of characters will walk though me, but surely I can redirect them with small units and reduce their effectiveness...

So are you all basically saying don't even try this list?

T10
01-08-2007, 20:20
As far as fudging I thought of using halberdiers for detachment (close to spearmen) but I want to stay true.


To what history, exactly, are you trying to stick?

If the thing is that you just want infantry, then bear in mind that free company militia can easily represent levvied troops or local partisans, as can archers and huntsmen.

I'm not sure if swordsmen are completely our of the picture - they are at least something to consider.

-T10

Malorian
01-08-2007, 20:48
T10- this is the Welsh army led by Llywelyn ap Gruffydd against the English. And the sorce I found for the battle of Orewin Bridge specifically, states that they were 7000 spearmen and 160 heavy horsemen.

It did state they had 'long spears' so I could try pikemen, but I've been told I'd be even worse off.

It seems like it should be possible, if I break them into enough groups, yet have enough large ones for some punch to stand a good chance aganist most armies.

craskie666
01-08-2007, 21:00
i would say having played with empire alot that it depends on the army you are facing due to the fact you have a high magich defence and quite a few bound spells but the lack of war machine and fast moving units will let you down you might get flanked alot

Malorian
01-08-2007, 21:12
Ok, I modified it to have a few more units.

Any better?

T10
01-08-2007, 21:20
T10- this is the Welsh army led by Llywelyn ap Gruffydd against the English. And the sorce I found for the battle of Orewin Bridge specifically, states that they were 7000 spearmen and 160 heavy horsemen.


Ah.

In that case you should make sure you face an opposing army representative of the English forces.

But can this army win? If the battle of Orewin Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Orewin_Bridge) is any indication: no.

-T10

Spoonie
02-08-2007, 08:29
Hah. Nice.


Well yes, a unit of 20 chaos knights with full command and a couple of characters will walk though me, but surely I can redirect them with small units and reduce their effectiveness...

Sort of, except they're more maneuverable than you'll ever be and they don't have to worry about running into their own units every time they try and wheel. But basically yes, unless you want to play against other armies that have purposely gimped themselves you're going to get rolled. I think, y'know, historical might be a better option.

Malorian
02-08-2007, 12:38
Ok... I'll give up on the idea. I tried looking at different unit sizes and different formations, but I guess the thing it comes down to is that it just won't be fun.

Losing most of the tmie is one thing, but as someone said before all spearmen will be boring for both me and the other player.

I'll work on a new 'fudged' list and post it later.

Thanks to those that posted.