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View Full Version : Planing a new army, 2k skaven, 1st try



Oberon
02-08-2007, 19:49
Found a nice looking batch of models, which I´m currently negotiating if I could trade them for my brets... Here´s what I figured I could get out of them:

Heroes:
Warlock: blades, accumulator, condenser, dispel scroll, warpstone charm, general=135
Warlock: blades, accumulator, condenser, dispel scroll, storm daemon=135
Warlock: blades, accumulator, condenser, death globes, warpscroll=135
chieftain: heavy armour, BSB: storm banner=149
*zapzapzapzap*

Core:
30 clanrats: FC, ratling gun=235
30 clanrats: FC, ratling gun=235
30 slaves: musician=64
26 storm vermin: FC, banner of the swarm, ratling gun=339
6 giant rats+1 packmaster=30
6 giant rats+1 packmaster=30

Special
20 plaque monks:FC, warbanner=170
4 gutter runners: tunneling team, poisoned hand weapons=68
4 gutter runners: tunneling team, poisoned hand weapons=68
2 rat ogres+2 packmasters=100

Rare:
1 warp-lightning cannon=100
=1993pts, 170 models ( :eek::eek:), 8 power stones, 2 bound spells, 5 DD+2 scrolls, all great clans attending.

Advance under the protection of storm banner, zap things with lightning and engulf them under the weight of furry flesh. Sounds like a plan, no?
Some glaring mistakes, something to change? Too cheesy (not like rats wouldn´t like cheese!)?

gerrymander61
02-08-2007, 22:49
Rat ogres really aren't worth it. If you're desperate for ogre models, put in some Ironguts from the Ogre Kingdoms list. They are considerably better.

Stormvermin: On paper they're great, but they're still just rats. Albeit expensive, elite rats, but rats nonetheless. Swap them for more clanrats
Plague Monks: Same goes for them. They're only worthwhile if you either A) have a grey seer death frenzy them and give them 2 handweapons (4 attacks!!!) or B) go for the censer bearers, which are amazing.

Why get a unit of 30 slaves? 30 break just as fast as 20 and really dont add much at all except for free victory points when they break. Also, musician is a waste. Yes they're 3 times as likely to rally, but the odds are still 1/12 that they will rally. And even if they do, they'll be out of position to screen/draw charges and will be useless. 20 is fine.

Gutter runners, fine, clanrats, fine

I'd put in either jezzails or globadiers to deal with heavy cav or big scary characters on big scary monsters

DesertDirge
03-08-2007, 13:23
I agree withe the Rat ogres and the slaves.

Id actually drop the ROs and drop the slaves to 20 add another unit of slaves and drop the Storm Vermine for clanrats.

then add Jezzails or another cannon... or even globies.

Oberon
03-08-2007, 17:16
Sadly, those are the models I´m getting if this deal ever comes true... Had a game (proxies ftw) today, and I agree about slaves too. RO are IMO ok, nice and fast. BSB worked nicely as a stormcaller, but was pathetic as a lineholder (surprise). Ok I had against me the ultimate steam roller, 42 black orcs with grimgor ironhide :O :O so losing stormvermin and clanrats and frenzy-charging plaque monks to them came no surprise.
after the game I was left somewhat dissappointed with warlocks (death globes rocked! though) and my elite regiments, pleased with skryre machinery (although everyone of them misfired themselves to smithereens), and very happy with gutters and slaves (my only regiment left alive and untouched after turn 6!).

Because of the minis, I´ll have to manage with this unbalanced team for some time. Unbalanced in the sense that not everyone is of equal capabilities, some are just for sacrifices and good for nothing...

I´ll have to think about globadiers/censers, they´re kinda cheap for a unit (single blister).

_Lucian_
03-08-2007, 17:23
make sure the stormvermin get shields, i cant stress how good it is, a 3+ save is nothing to be sniffed at, specially when fighting armies like dwarves when the halberd is as much use as a tooth pick. Maybe get a flame gun over those rattlings, personal favourite of mine is that weapon team. In general weapon teams should be dropped in mass, try get some night/gutter runners instead for your squads, 4 is too small against alot of targets. Also have you thought about censor bearers? they can pack a wicked punch for 5 guys. either way ive tried to suggest things which wont require much buying on your behalf

Oberon
03-08-2007, 17:47
Whoops, storm vermin do have shields, forgot to write them, sorrry :) I rather like the generally longer range and often larger amount of hits the rgun makes, and flamers are not included in the batch.
Gutter runners are only four, as I thought 8 poison attacks is enough against war machines, and I won´t have extra models for them either. I´ll have to study censers and globadiers, never seen them anywhere except the blister racks of my LGS.

_Lucian_
03-08-2007, 17:54
well at only 4 they wont take down dwarf machines (not likely too anyway) and if your against an opponents without the machines cant really damage archer units too much either.....

the flame template is nice it has a potential 18inch range if you roll a 10 on arty dice plus does D3 wounds and auto panic. Either way having 3 in your army is 200+ points.... loosing one could buy you both censor bearers and maybe help squeeze in a grey seer

Oberon
03-08-2007, 18:14
Censer unit is 85, rgun is 60, and I´m not dropping every rgun I have. So no on that. Here´s another list, made from the list in the first post, with some amendments.
Heroes:
Warlord: bands of power, languisher sword, heavy armour, shield, warpstone amulet=174 (strikes first str8 if all goes to the plan in the magic phase, nice)
Warlock: blades, accumulator, condenser, dispel scroll, storm daemon=135
Warlock: blades, accumulator, condenser, death globes, warpscroll=135
chieftain: BSB: storm banner=145
*zapzapzapzap*

Core:
25 clanrats: FC, ratling gun=210
25 clanrats: FC, ratling gun=210
24 slaves: musician=52
24 slaves: musician=52
25 storm vermin: FC, shields, banner of the swarm, ratling gun=330
6 giant rats+1 packmaster=30
2 poison wind globadiers=20
Special
20 plaque monks:FC, warbanner=170
4 gutter runners: tunneling team, poisoned hand weapons=68
4 gutter runners: tunneling team, poisoned hand weapons=68
2 rat ogres+2 packmasters=100

Rare:
1 warp-lightning cannon=100
=2000pts, 165 models :cries:

Gimp
03-08-2007, 19:00
I really really like this list.

Just drop the Rat Orges and add in some plague censor beares these guys rock.

And the 1 warplock mage from the warpskroll and the other item and give him a brass orb. It is so much fun against units with low initive (like Slann :D)

Oberon
03-08-2007, 19:17
It may be, but I found the death globes absolutely amazing. His regiment wasn´t charged, so he could keep throwing them for the whole game, great value for the points it was. Warpscroll ain´t bad either. So many choices... Rogers stay until I want to spend more money on this list, if everything goes to the plan I get this free of monetary expenditure, in change of my brets.

themandudeperson
05-08-2007, 14:40
Give the plague monks the banner of burning hate and use the rat ogres to be their meat shield because everyone puts a huge bullseye on those movement 6 guys and their 3 a piece str 5 attacks and with their 3 wounds they'll take some concentrated fire for one, maybe two turns before dying. If you find the spare points and cash, I say replace them with 3 Iron guts and use them the same way.

I'd replace the chieftain with a plague priest and put him with the censor bearers when you add them later and give him a censor as well. He's strength 4 toughness 5 and has 2 wounds..He'll be hard as nails to kill especially if you give him warpstone armor. With the censor, he'll be strength 6 first round and being a character AND frenzied he'll have 4 attacks!! This doesn't even add in the attacks from the censor bearers, and remember, at the end of the turn, all models in base-to-base with the bearers must take a toughness test or take a wound(So do the bearers, but clan pestilens units only fail on 6's, as stated in the army book). Additionally, they hate everyone and are frenzied

With frenzy you don't have to worry about the plague monks panicking from being shot so you'll know that they'll get in base-to-base and with movement 5 there's a good chance you can get the charge. With the Banner of Burning Hate, they have hate and get to re-roll to-hit on the first round of combat, if you have them in 3 ranks of 6 and with a full command that's 19 attacks with re-rolls to-hit. If you have a 4+ to-hit, that gives you a 75% chance of your attacks hitting. That's 14-15 hits in the first turn assuming you manage to get the charge. Even at strength 3, that's nothing to laugh at. It's imperative you do some serious damage to the first rank because their toughness 4 will protect them to an extent, but their lack of armor will cause them to die by the dozen if you haven't caused many casaulties.

I'd drop the giant rats.. for 30 points that's 6 clanrats, or 5 with shields or even 15 slaves. With the clanrats you'll benefit from the "strength in numbers" rule, unlike the giant rats.

The stormvermin I think are a personal choice.. If you like the idea of having some WS 4 rank and file and you have the points, go for it. Although, I say take them for what they are, a whimpy rat with better armor and a halberd and a little more skill. Make sure you use them against smaller or weaker units . Don't send them in against ironbreakers or you will have your ass handed to you. I'd only field them with an umbranner and pushing a screaming bell, but that means buying a screaming bell and a grey seer so I think it's probably out of the question for you. Not to mention that would force a total revamp of your army.

Minimize the size and cost of your slaves.. They're just going to break in a turn or two anyway after catching some missile fire or getting their faces ripped off in close combat.

Seriously think about adding 1 more tunneler to each squad and take the black skaven upgrade if you can. with 5 attackers an additional +1 attack gives you a +20% chance of landing a poisoned attack or causing a normal wound. Also, remember when lining them up on a charge, that bases that touch at the corners still count as being in base-to-base, so 5 gutter runners can attack 3 weapon crewmen. As a word of advice:NEVER TAKE GUTTER RUNNERS WITHOUT POISONED WEAPONS! Otherwise their strength 3 makes their higher weapon skill a waste against anything with an armor save.

Be sure to replace your warlord's shield with an enchanted shield if you can. That additional +1 to your armor save helps a load and it's only an 8 point difference.

I do agree that you should replace one ratling gun with a warpfire thrower just to handle tougher and more armored troops. They're also terrific against low leadership units with their forced panic test.

I'd drop the globadiers for them as two are pretty much ineffectual in shooting. With a BS of 3, when they move that's -1 so you'd hit on 5+ and wound on a 4+, that gives you a 16-17% chance of causing ONE wound and with only a range of 8" you're setting yourself up for a charge next turn unless you manage to keep them on the flank of a large rank and file unit.

If you're going to field them, do so with at least 6. How you split them up is up to you. Smaller units won't cost you as much when they break and run off the table, but larger units can take more casaulties before having to take a leadership test.

Keep the warplightning cannon, it's mobility and potential firepower can keep an opponent distracted while your other threats get into position. If you can, put it on the other side of some woods. With it's special rule, it can shoot through them while your opponent's unit won't be able to return fire, meaning they have to send units after it to ferret it out of cover to kill it. Also, remember that you can MARCH with that bad boy. With a 14" march and a +4 ward save vs missiles you can definately keep that thing alive and drawing attention for several turns.

I do realize, if you try to do all of that, you'll have something closer to a 2500 pt list, so if I had to pick a unit to get the axe it'd be probably the stormvermin.