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senorcardgage
04-08-2007, 18:16
Hey folks,

I have always been firmly under the opinion that rough riders are one of the best units you can get in IG. They are cheap, fast, and hit hard, but unfortunately, they don't have very good models (IF you can get your hands on them! :p).

In another thread there was a fellow who seemed to not think they were very good at counter assaulting. :eek:

What are your opinions on them?

Thanks for your time

Bunnahabhain
04-08-2007, 18:47
They are the single best counter assault unit in the game. they hit hard enough to stop nigh on anything in close combat, have a large threat range, and are cheap enough you can hold them back.

Theire once use status makes them effectively immune from abuse, or cries of abuse, as it means they will only very rarely be a game winning unit.
Also, a decent size squad of them competes directly with a Hellhound, both in points and FOC slot, and there are very few opponents who would prefer a Hellhound pointed at them

Darkane
04-08-2007, 19:16
Personally I've never used them before but I hear almost nothing but good about them. I plan on getting some in the future and using them for what they seem to be best at, which is counter assault. With only one use for the lance charge that seems to be their best role but from what I hear thats all they're really needed for. They help buy your lines more time pumping out the firepower after they run down whatever is closing in.

Latro_
04-08-2007, 20:14
if you cant get hold of the models be inventive :P

i use 3 servo skulls on a bas to rep a RR. :P like man hacks in HL2

Baneboss
04-08-2007, 20:20
I think they are ok to eliminate a major threat near your lines. They arent always cost effective but they are good.

On the other hand this question has been asked like forever. Do they get +1 attack from using pistol+lance combo or not?

MadJackMcJack
04-08-2007, 20:47
On the other hand this question has been asked like forever. Do they get +1 attack from using pistol+lance combo or not?


No, it specifically says "A model using a hunting lance cannot use another CCW". I'd imagine that also means no pistol shots either when charging, but don't quote me on that.

I've seen them used before, and I think their bad rep comes from people using them to ride forth and intercept threats before they reach the Guard lines. Naturally, this leads to the poor rough riders being isolated and horribly killed. But when kept as a reserve and chucked into an ongoing melee, they're bloody nasty. S5 I5 power weapons? Le ouch! Too bad the models kinda suck.

fwacho
04-08-2007, 21:02
I fight agianst them regularly. they are a pain in my... he uses two squads. one of them is tricked out with meltaguns and melta bombs (this is the smaller squad. the larger squad packs a power swrod and pistol carrying (with a lance mind you) srg. these guys hit MEQ and anythign else like a ton of bricks. teh powersword helps mop up survivors (there usually arn't alot.)

He runs teh small metla guns in front. they sometiem scharge or get charged then the the second squad (larger) does the real damage the following turn freeing both up to pester heavy support choices..

Lord Malek The Red Knight
04-08-2007, 21:22
No, it specifically says "A model using a hunting lance cannot use another CCW". I'd imagine that also means no pistol shots either when charging, but don't quote me on that.

no, they can fire before they charge, they just wont get 1+A for having 2 single-handed CCWs.

~ Tim

Sir_Lunchalot
04-08-2007, 21:41
I think they're amazing units, and that the only reason you don't see them in 90% of the IG armies out there is the craptastic models that only look slightly better than the north end of a southbound rhinoceros. They are one use only, yes, but they only need one turn. When used right, they can potentially kill their points worth of enemy models in one round. They do require some finesse or they die as easily as other Guardsmen, but when used, they're gold.

And let's not even mention Death Riders for those vets who like forgeworld guard armies...

Jo Bennett
04-08-2007, 22:13
Which models are being slagged off here, the Attilans or the Tallarn? I can kind of see the issue with the Attilans but the Tallarn look great.

Bunnahabhain
04-08-2007, 22:16
They are also a wonderful conversion opportunity waiting to happen. Bikers, xeno mounts, empire pistoliers, catachan frog riders, or anything else you can think of.

Malchek
04-08-2007, 22:26
They are the single best counter assault unit in the game. they hit hard enough to stop nigh on anything in close combat, have a large threat range, and are cheap enough you can hold them back.

Lol I love Rough Riders but they're not the best counter assault unit in the game unless you mean for IG only in which case I wholly agree with you.

Rough Riders only have two drawbacks.

1/ Anything with initiative over 5 is a real headache for rough riders as they'll usually die before they get to strike. This means its often better to try and shoot laspistols at Halrequins or genestealers and their ilk rather than charging them (or do both of course!) as they usually die in close combat although sometimes the enemy fluff their attacks just don't count on it!

2/ Against hordes like termagaunts, hormagaunts, large mobs of Orks etc etc Rough riders usually don't have enough attacks to put a big enough dent in such units to survive the flurry of attacks back and/or to make it worthwhile charging them in the first place.

The best way to remedy such problems is to use large numbers of rough riders or - like me - use 2 small units in tandem against such threats - giving you a greater chance of getting to strike or denting large units.

Really Rough riders excel at charging/counterchargin meq equivelents with I5 or lower - and/or small elite units such as terminators. In this role they are awesome and the best counterassault unit the Guard have to offer. And for everything else there's conscripts to tarpit ;)

Keep them cheap and cheerful - 5 rough riders with hunting lances is 55pts, I've found 2 such units to be excellent counter charge units - the fear of them is enough to keep many enemies away from wherever they're deployed!

Always keep them out of LOS ready to charge/counter enemy units that get too close. Sometimes its worth barrelling across the table in a charge if you can use terrain well enough and against the right opponents but that's very rare.

Once you've played with Rough Riders you wont want an IG army without them and the roll call of their heoic deeds just gets longer and longer! Terminators, Daemon Princes, flyrants, obliterators genestealers, halrequins, scorpians, warp spiders, my Rough riders have performed heroically against all of them.

Because most IG armies are so fragile against assault armies having several units of rough riders is the best way we have of stopping an assault in its tracks. Combine their countercharge with some conscripts to tarpit and you have a counter assault ability that can effectively deal with anything or hold them up long enough to make them irrelevant!

Hope this helps

Malchek ;)

Sir_Lunchalot
05-08-2007, 04:10
I'm slagging off the Atillan models. they look ugly and dated, IMHO some of the worst models still in production. I haven't seent eh Tallarn ones, so I can't say for them. That said, I use rough riders because I'm planning to eventually get around to converting a squad or three of Vostroyan Rough Riders from the Atillans.

Bookwrak
05-08-2007, 04:50
In another thread there was a fellow who seemed to not think they were very good at counter assaulting. :eek:


Wasn't the comparison between them and either Khorne Berserkers, or Bloodletters? :eyebrows:

Rough riders are very fragile. Their save means that you have to be very careful in moving them into position, because they die just as easily as any other guardsman. Likewise, anything that hits faster than they do tends to tear them up as well. They're also a one-hit wonder, literally. They get their beefed up attacks on the charge, but after that, it's the standard IG HtH statline.

Higgen
05-08-2007, 04:56
Rough Riders + Conscripts == Hammer & Anvil

I run a single 8 man squad in all my Guard armies since I've converted my models, and I can't imagine running an army without them anymore. They are extremely potent little buggers. However, like all things, they do have weaknesses. Malchek covered most of them, but I also want to add that only their sergeant has access to a frag grenade, and I never upgrade my sergeants anyways. Any enemy unit that is in cover strikes first, and thus greatly lessens the potency of the Rough Riders. Never assault such a unit unless the situation is dire indeed.

Alexandr Ulyanov
05-08-2007, 05:29
Rough riders are weak. They kill MEQs well, but my group is mostly xenos.

What happens when they charge storm guardians with enhance, harlequins, or banshees? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge large DE units of wyches/warriors? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge tyranids with I6(friend's flyrant, genestealers, lictor, broodlord, gargoyles in a way...)? They die and don't usually make up their points.

So when my friends go assault spec, they don't do crap.

senorcardgage
05-08-2007, 05:31
[QUOTE=Bookwrak;1803108]Wasn't the comparison between them and either Khorne Berserkers, or Bloodletters? :eyebrows:
QUOTE]

Well, sort of... I later took it out of the context of berzerkers and I still got the impression that he wasn't a big fan of them in any regard.

Col.Gravis
05-08-2007, 08:43
Rough riders are weak. They kill MEQs well, but my group is mostly xenos.

What happens when they charge storm guardians with enhance, harlequins, or banshees? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge large DE units of wyches/warriors? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge tyranids with I6(friend's flyrant, genestealers, lictor, broodlord, gargoyles in a way...)? They die and don't usually make up their points.

So when my friends go assault spec, they don't do crap.

Horses for courses ;)

Roughriders are indeed best employed as MEQ killers, for the likes of GEQ's there are Ogryns - and for the rest there are hidden Powerfists and guns, it's seldom a good idea to try an put a square peg through a round hole, you've gota pick the right army component for the job.

MegaPope
05-08-2007, 09:52
RRs are superb counter-assaulters. I use mine like one of my friends used his in 2nd Epic: artillery guards. I've got two units that, along with my meltagun-toting provosts (command sections) are there to protect the basilisks and heavy weapon crews from deepstrikers. They will happily smack into newly arrived Terminator units with abandon

My RRs use the xeno-cavalry upgrade, and wear carapace armour. Not cheap, but it does make them one of the most resilient units in my force. No expects Guard units with 3+ saves, and though they can't fleet, their mounts get an extra attack, making them better at taking on horde units after the lances are used.

Bork
05-08-2007, 11:31
Rough riders are weak. They kill MEQs well, but my group is mostly xenos.

What happens when they charge storm guardians with enhance, harlequins, or banshees? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge large DE units of wyches/warriors? They die and don't usually make up their points.

What happens when they charge tyranids with I6(friend's flyrant, genestealers, lictor, broodlord, gargoyles in a way...)? They die and don't usually make up their points.

So when my friends go assault spec, they don't do crap.

They cost 55 points for crying out loud!
For that cost they can still be used to divert charging troops, contest quarters or just go after something slower.
And if you know that you'll never ever come across any MEQ, five riders with two special weapons is still dirt cheap and can go after the targets you mentioned above.
IMHO of course ;)

Jo Bennett
05-08-2007, 13:52
The tallarn torsos are still available on the online store, other than that all the parts are the same as the Attilans, they look a lot better though.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=9947010509501&orignav=301117

Corrupt
05-08-2007, 13:54
Tallern ones are nice
Tho I was silly and spent a lot of cash on 6 Death Riders
Cant wait to use them!
As a unit they are the most awesome counter charge device avaiable to IG

Lord Malek The Red Knight
05-08-2007, 14:03
The tallarn torsos are still available on the online store, other than that all the parts are the same as the Attilans, they look a lot better though.
i love those - shame about the Frags though. :(

~ Tim

Desert Rat
05-08-2007, 18:38
http://http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/cabinetguy/40k%20stuff/Roughrider1.jpg

I give my Vet Sgt the upgrade (can't off the top of my head remember what its called) to senior officer and power wpn. After the initial hit he is pretty good at moping up what's left.