PDA

View Full Version : Can Banshees scream into combat still?



Tormentor of Slaanesh
05-08-2007, 19:27
I fought this guy and he didnt let my banshee scream at units that were in combat due to some new rule. is this true?

theunwantedbeing
05-08-2007, 19:34
Banshee scream.
Any enemy within 12"(think its 12....part of me thinks its 8,that might be her movement,marched movement).

Anywho.....if she's in combat she HAS to scream at the unit she is in combat with.
If she isnt in combat,then she's free to scream at whoever happens to be in range.

Show the guy your rulebook.
Always ask for proof of what somebody says if it sounds iffy,if they cant show you,then its most likely not true.

EvC
05-08-2007, 19:40
To quote myself from the other thread:
"Yes they can, your opponent butchered a rule that was specifically written to say they are NOT immune to psychology, but that they count as passing psychology tests they'd otherwise need to take when in combat. The scream is not a psychology test so it still works on units in combat."

Also it's 8" indeed, I don't think she HAS to scream at the unit she's in combat with, but she can only scream at that unit if she's in combat, not other units.

T10
06-08-2007, 08:23
Like all missile troops, the Banshee must adhere to the normal shooting rules and may not use the Ghostly Howl against a unit that is fighting in close combat.

An exception is granted for a Banshee that is fighting in close combat: She may use the Ghostly Howl against an enemy unit in base contact.

-T10

Masque
06-08-2007, 08:56
Like all missile troops, the Banshee must adhere to the normal shooting rules and may not use the Ghostly Howl against a unit that is fighting in close combat.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Check out the first question in the VC FAQ.

Festus
06-08-2007, 10:00
Like all missile troops, the Banshee must adhere to the normal shooting rules and may not use the Ghostly Howl against a unit that is fighting in close combat.

An exception is granted for a Banshee that is fighting in close combat: She may use the Ghostly Howl against an enemy unit in base contact.
You are wrong, I am afraid:

1st - the Banshee is not a missile troop,

2nd - she does not shoot (even if her Howl is done in the shooting phase)

3rd - she has explicit permission to scream at ANY unit (even without LoS, no targeting restrictions, et al. If in combat, she may only scream at the unit she fights, though.

Festus

Ganymede
06-08-2007, 10:58
You are wrong, I am afraid:

1st and Only - she has explicit permission to scream at ANY unit (even without LoS, no targeting restrictions, et al. If in combat, she may only scream at the unit she fights, though.

Festus


There. I fixed your post to remove everything irrelevent to the question at hand.

Festus
06-08-2007, 15:04
Maybe you should not be so quick, my dear friend :eyebrows:

If the Banshee's Howl were a shooting attack, it still needed LoS, for example. This is not exempt in the Banshees rules.

She can only scream at units out of LoS because it is NOT a shooting attack.

But thanks anyways...

Festus

T10
06-08-2007, 15:17
You are wrong, I am afraid:

1st - the Banshee is not a missile troop,

2nd - she does not shoot (even if her Howl is done in the shooting phase)

3rd - she has explicit permission to scream at ANY unit (even without LoS, no targeting restrictions, et al. If in combat, she may only scream at the unit she fights, though.

Festus

It quacks like a duck, it swims like a duck, it looks like a duck. :)

The Banshee entry allows her to use her to target "any" unit and then lists a set of exceptions that does not include units in close combat, leading to me to believe that they were defining "any" as all normally viable targets for shooting as well as a set of other targets that would normally not be legal targets.

I see the VC errata allows for her shooting (shouting?) into close combat, so that's that.

What is interesting, however, is wether or not the ghostly howl is a missile/shooting attack and wether it is indeed magical (or at least: "ethereal"). Several magical items protect against shooting attacks specifically, and not all ethereal creatures are immune to psychology.

-T10

EvC
06-08-2007, 15:36
Well, "any" is bolded so the listed exceptions should not be taken as an exhaustive listing, even though there's no etc. Nice of the FAQ to cover the issue, however.

Good question on the status of the Ghostly Howl itself. It's not magical, but given the bolded "any", I would take this to mean she can hit and hurt ethereal characters. Plus the general VC rules for ethereal models states that they can be hurt and damaged [in combat: take to mean the entire combat represented by a game of Warhammer, I advise!] by ethereal creatures so the fact the Banshee is ethereal would allow her to damage other ethereals with her scream. However, then you go look at the High Elf spell "Walk between worlds" and it's got other definitions and rules for being ethereal so you really do have to fudge it at that point.

Ganymede
06-08-2007, 19:02
Maybe you should not be so quick, my dear friend :eyebrows:

If the Banshee's Howl were a shooting attack, it still needed LoS, for example. This is not exempt in the Banshees rules.

She can only scream at units out of LoS because it is NOT a shooting attack.

But thanks anyways...

Festus


She can do all that crap because it is ever so explicitly mentioned that she can. Even if it was a missile weapon or a shooting attack, the scream still has a very specific and enumerated exception which allows her to howl at engaged units or while she is engaged.

soots
07-08-2007, 07:13
Well, "any" is bolded so the listed exceptions should not be taken as an exhaustive listing, even though there's no etc. Nice of the FAQ to cover the issue, however.

Good question on the status of the Ghostly Howl itself. It's not magical, but given the bolded "any", I would take this to mean she can hit and hurt ethereal characters. Plus the general VC rules for ethereal models states that they can be hurt and damaged [in combat: take to mean the entire combat represented by a game of Warhammer, I advise!] by ethereal creatures so the fact the Banshee is ethereal would allow her to damage other ethereals with her scream. However, then you go look at the High Elf spell "Walk between worlds" and it's got other definitions and rules for being ethereal so you really do have to fudge it at that point.


I think the scream has no effect on creatures that are immune to psychology which the Banshee is :p

Gorbad Ironclaw
07-08-2007, 07:24
But the point was, you can get other ethereal models that are not immune to psychology, so how would it work there.

EvC
07-08-2007, 10:50
Example being a High Elf mage that casts "Walk Between Worlds" on himself. T10 alluded to it and I specifically mentioned that for a reason soots ;)

soots
08-08-2007, 04:12
Id consider the scream a non magical attack, but an ethereal creature attack.

So if they can be effected by ethereals, then scream away.