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polanowj
11-04-2005, 00:38
Quick ??, in a 2000 point battle today, as Chaos Undivided - I had a Lord on a Dragon, and two sorcerors and (originally) an aspring champ. When I put this info into AB 3.0, it passed all validation tests. When I wanted to add some DOW as a rare choice, so I input it into AB 2.2c - and it said I had too many heroes. I then looked at the BRB to clarify. The way I read the BRB - in a 2000 point game you can have a total of 4 Characters, of which 1 can be a lord, or a total of 4 heroes. SPoke with the store owner and he has been asking the AB 3.0 datafile author to clarify. I think I did it correct - since the HoC book says that the dragon takes up another hero slot and I thought that a hero slot equates to a character, so with 2 sorcerers, 1 dragon and 1 lord, I would have 4 characters. So....which AB is correct - 2.2c or 3.0? Does a dragon (or other similar mount) not only count as a hero, but also as a character for the total number of characters?

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
11-04-2005, 00:46
oh dear god, here we go again. the way we play at the store is is mounts do not count as characters, even if they take up a hero choice. and each charcter model, no matter how many slots it takes up,is only 1 character. but some ppl will fight me to the death over this issue :(

taer
11-04-2005, 02:17
oh dear god, here we go again. the way we play at the store is is mounts do not count as characters, even if they take up a hero choice. and each charcter model, no matter how many slots it takes up,is only 1 character. but some ppl will fight me to the death over this issue :(

You have got to be freaking kidding!

That's the whole reason why some models take up more than one hero slot...to limit the amount of heros you can have in addition to the character. For crying out loud, people~! Character=hero or lord. It is a catch all term for the two. So if something takes up three hero slots....then yes it takes away three of the four slots in a 2000 point game for characters.


Basically AB 3.0 is not right, which isn't a surprise. That program has some goofy things going on with it.

Major Defense
11-04-2005, 03:37
Maybe I've been in the dark about all of this...

In a 2000 point army you are allowed one (1) Lord choice, four (4) Hero choices and a total of four (4) character choices. So obviously when I take a generic Lord it is going to allow me only three more heroes because of the limitation of characters. I've always guessed that wording on special characters like "can be taken as a lord choice, but will use up one of your hero choices as well" was just a redundancy. Now you have me thinking about dragons and the fact that they take up a hero choice...so do dragons and special characters really take up additional *character* choices? Is this just more unfortunate wording on the part of our backwards friends at GW?

BullBuchanan
11-04-2005, 03:42
Maybe I've been in the dark about all of this...

In a 2000 point army you are allowed one (1) Lord choice, four (4) Hero choices and a total of four (4) character choices. So obviously when I take a generic Lord it is going to allow me only three more heroes because of the limitation of characters. I've always guessed that wording on special characters like "can be taken as a lord choice, but will use up one of your hero choices as well" was just a redundancy. Now you have me thinking about dragons and the fact that they take up a hero choice...so do dragons and special characters really take up additional *character* choices? Is this just more unfortunate wording on the part of our backwards friends at GW?

Yes for instance, Prince Imrik(HE) Takes up 1 lord and 2 hero choices. Thus he takes up 3 character slots total. I dont care for how they say 1 Lord and 4 hero per 2000 points because its really 1 lord and 3 heroes.

taer
11-04-2005, 03:43
Nope, they actually take up more hero choices. Like Valten takes up two lord choices, a Bloodthirster takes a Lord, Hero, and rare choices, Asarnil takes up two hero choices and a rare when fielded in a non DOW army, Elector count on Griffon takes a Lord and hero, Etc.

Festus
11-04-2005, 06:04
Hi

Yes for instance, Prince Imrik(HE) Takes up 1 lord and 2 hero choices. Thus he takes up 3 character slots total. I dont care for how they say 1 Lord and 4 hero per 2000 points because its really 1 lord and 3 heroes.

You are basically right, but it is not 1 Lord and 4 Heroes or 1 Lord and 3 Heroes, but it is (2000 points as an example)

up to 4 characters (those may be Lords or Heroes),

of those, up to 4 may be Heroes (noone forces you to take a Lord)

up to one may be a Lord.

Any character or mount that takes up an additional (or two) slot for a hero, takes up a slot for a character as well.

Greetings
Festus

St1
11-04-2005, 07:10
Elector count on Griffon takes a Lord and hero, Etc.

sorry to nit pick, but that perticular combo still only takes 1 lord choice.

polanowj
11-04-2005, 10:31
well...that just about sorts it, tx for the responses, sounds like we (store owner and I) read it correct and AB 3.0 has it incorrect. Tx everyone

taer
11-04-2005, 14:35
sorry to nit pick, but that perticular combo still only takes 1 lord choice.

You are entirely correct, good sir! That makes me really want to do an empire army with attatched asarnil dragon now (It would have no artillary, and a lot of mercenaries, and a spanish theme)

St1
12-04-2005, 05:06
i'm happy to be an insperation. good luck on that.

peteratwar
12-04-2005, 10:04
Have to say I cannot understand how people get confused over this.

In a 2K army you have 4 character slots. They can be for 4 Heroes OR 1 Lord and 3 Heroes. In 2 K you are allowed 1 Lord who is a character and up to 3 heroes who are characters.

Sometimes e.g. a 2nd Generation Slann uses up more than 1 of these e.g. uses 2 Character slots, 1 for being a Lord & 1 because the rules say he uses up another slot given who he is. That leaves 2 character slots left. Given a 2K army that means you can use up to 2 more heroes for the character slots. You cannot add another Lord because the rules for a 2K army only allow 1 Lord as one of your characters.

Again if you mount a character on a Dragon that often uses up another character slot. So a Lord on a Dragon will use up 2 character slots leaving 2 more for heroes.

Really feel the teaching of english comprehension is getting very poor these days ! :)

polanowj
12-04-2005, 11:10
Happy to say that we had played it correctly. Re: english comprehension - not really an issue - question was - does a dragon (who yes, clearly takes up a hero 'slot', count as a 'character' or count as a 'mount' that takes up a hero slot - if it is the former - than you only get a total of 4, if it is the latter, then you could count him in a hero slot (1 of 4), but he wouldn't count against the total character's).
As I mentioned, based (at least on the opinions - not on anything actually written that we can find by GW) that it does count as a hero/character and not a hero/mount, so (again) it appears AB 3.0 is incorrect at least based on the opinions in this post and the one at the GW site. Since the AB 3.0 datafile creator believes his interpretation is correct (counts as a mount in a hero slot and not a 'character'), both posts were simply looking for the info to forward so it can be corrected for all those folks that use AB.

peteratwar
12-04-2005, 12:22
Really only the Army Books/Rule Books should be your decider. If the Army Builder disagrees then it is almost certainly wrong.

If you look at the Army Books it will say that a character may be MOUNTED on (inter alia) a Dragon. If you do that, then you use up an additional hero slot as well.

So the Dragon is NOT a character but IS a MOUNT, but using the said dragon uses up an extra character slot. Thus in a 2K army you only have 2 slots left.

anarchistica
17-05-2005, 12:17
So....which AB is correct - 2.2c or 3.0? Does a dragon (or other similar mount) not only count as a hero, but also as a character for the total number of characters?
AB 2.2 is correct. The datafiles for 3.0 are still very much work in progress, the files for 2.2 have been around for years so the older lists at least should have very few bugs in them.

T10
20-05-2005, 15:59
Is this just more unfortunate wording on the part of our backwards friends at GW?

No, it's just wishful thinking.

As already stated: Heroes and Lords each take up a character slot.

-T10