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Half Eldar
23-08-2005, 18:47
Well, I've been thinking about this for a long long time now, getting into LotR. Truth is, I'm not much for playing scenarios straight from the rules, or even from the books or movies - generally I prefer mass battles, or made up scenarios.

OTOH, the troop models for LotR are CHEAP, compared to GW's other games. I'm really liking the Haradrim and the Rohirrim, and next year with the Easterlings and plastic Elves, it''ll be excellent.

I've never been such a huge fan of the books as most of you lot seem to be. HERESY, I hear you say, but such is life. Oh, I like them well enough, but they're not as dear to me as some other stuff.

So with all that in mind, is it really worth playing the game for mass battles, or warbands style skirmishes of a few models? I've got no interest in collecting everything, or anywhere near everything. I don't have much interest in getting the hero models, and I'd convert captains and standards out of the plastics anyway, for the most part.

Are battles of 30-100 troops a side, including war machines, cavalry and a few characters, very much fun at all? Or would I be better off sticking to an establised mass battle system and rebasing the plastic minis (which I must say are fantastic!)? I've got zounds of bits from other stuff to convert models to hold spears swords, shields, bows, whatever I'd need that way.

With me being in Toronto, and the new rulebook and MoM debuting here at a con in 4 days, I'm seriously tempted. Any thoughts on the matter would help.

Major Thom
23-08-2005, 18:58
The maximum models you want per person is really no more than 50. Beyond that the mechanics really start bogging down.

Eldanar
23-08-2005, 19:48
If you like Rohirrim, then I have about 40+ cavalry I could sale you?

Shadowheart
23-08-2005, 20:17
Bluntly put, no. The LotR game isn't worth it if you want to play large pitched battles and aren't overly fond of the story. That's not what the game is about.

But it still won't hurt to give it a try. It's an interesting set of rules and as you say, the miniatures aren't that expensive. Getting enough stuff together (you can even use proxies) to play a few games shouldn't be hard. Especially if you're going to be collecting the miniatures anyway you should just give it a try and see for yourself if the game suits you.

Half Eldar
23-08-2005, 20:58
Well, let's put it this way. I actually like the system.

So maybe mass battles won't work. How's this Warbands business? Am I going to need metal characters that are expensive and I won't be able to do justice to? What's the gaming community like? If I go to GW, for instance, or a random average game store, are most of the people going to be rabid fans with artfully crafted Aragorns littering every table?

Heh, if nothing else I guess I'll get troops and square base the models for WHFB and ignore the cries of betrayal from both sides. Although WHFB is much clunkier, in many ways.

Freak Ona Leash
24-08-2005, 20:54
From what I've heard, the LoTR system is horrible for mass battles. Better off making rules for the armies for WFB and playing it like that. But, I've only played LoTR a few times, and though I didnt much like the rules, I did find one thing rather entertaining. Battle Companies. Basically, you start out with a nadful of guys p,us a hero for your side. As you fight battles, your Company gains in strength as soldiers are promoted, your Hero (or heroes) gains new abilities and reinforcements are given to you. Best done in a sort of campiagn setting with a story behind it.

big squig
24-08-2005, 23:09
Actually, I find mass pitched combat in LotR to be a blast. It's still fun to play skirmishes and scenarios, but the occasional pitched battle is great. The amount of strategy need to win a mass battle is mind boggling. For example, I played a pitched battle of 250 pts of gondor vs. 500 pts of mordor. I was the gondor player. The game ended with mordor being massacred. Why, because I was a better player than my opponent.

Its not that the rules break down over 50 models or 500 points (I've played many 1000+ point games as well) itís that it takes a long time. It can be annoying since you have to roll for each individual combat....and at 1000+ points, thatís allot of rolling. But, then again, so was 2nd ed 40k.

If youíre going to do a big game, and I greatly suggest it, make sure you have on player on each side per 500 points.

Half Eldar
25-08-2005, 00:50
Well, I wasn't going to go much bigger than 500 at most anyway. Way I see it, with the addition of the WD/Online stuff about alternative troops and stuff, for four box sets and a handful of blisters I can have a couple of 500 point armies for me and a friend to throw down against each.

And on top of that is skirmishes and such. Again, I don't mind scenarios, I just don't feel like I'd want to recreate the books or the movies, or use characters at the level of any of the big ones.

Brother Frog
25-08-2005, 01:08
I recently took part in a private (i.e. away from GW and gaming club) big game of LotR, six players (three aside) each using 500 points in a pitched battle.

Great fun, and the game ran very smoothly. I would put this down to the fact that there were very few characters (and only one named character, Sharku) being used, so minimal book keeping with Might, Will and Fate.

Half Eldar
25-08-2005, 01:42
Ooh, want to give me a breakdown roughly of the army lists? I'd like an idea of how many models are workable without too much MWF.

Brother Frog
25-08-2005, 10:20
I can't be too precise as I can't remember, but it was something like this:


- Each player had two heroes, all unnamed except for Sharku (who isn't that much better than an Orc Captain).

- I fielded Gondorians, 2 banners, 6 knights some Rangers, Fountain Court and a load of Warriors.

- Ratty Phill used Rohan, riders and Royal Guard, one banner.

- Gerbil used Elves, the traditional porcupine of archers and spearmen.


- Baron Woodstock used Harradrim, including the Mumak. Unsurprisingly, he didn't have a huge number of other models.

- Nellington fielded Mordor. Two trolls, some Uruks and many, many Orcs. Two banners.

- Danforth had White Hand Uruks and some Wargs. Two banners.



The game was absolutely brilliant, and was very close.

Paddy
02-09-2005, 12:20
Actually, I find mass pitched combat in LotR to be a blast. It's still fun to play skirmishes and scenarios, but the occasional pitched battle is great. The amount of strategy need to win a mass battle is mind boggling. For example, I played a pitched battle of 250 pts of gondor vs. 500 pts of mordor. I was the gondor player. The game ended with mordor being massacred. Why, because I was a better player than my opponent.

Its not that the rules break down over 50 models or 500 points (I've played many 1000+ point games as well) itís that it takes a long time. It can be annoying since you have to roll for each individual combat....and at 1000+ points, thatís allot of rolling. But, then again, so was 2nd ed 40k.

If youíre going to do a big game, and I greatly suggest it, make sure you have on player on each side per 500 points.

The comparison to 2nd ed 40K is a good one - I could handle large games with that system, and am patient enough to enjoy big LotR battles, so if you ever played 2nd ed and enjoyed it, then you should be able to hack large scale LotR.

big squig
03-09-2005, 01:09
I saw the new rule book today at my local GW (which was kinda lucky as I never visit my local GW) and I gotta say I'm impressed. The book is really geared twords pitched battle and mass combat. I love this because while the game was laready set up for this kinda play, it was never really well supported.

At first, I was a bit worried, because I love scenarios and recreating scenes from the book/movie just as much. These are kinda left out of the rulebook. But...thats what supplements are for. All the old books are still valid, plus the fellowship is being turned into a supplement as well. I'm sure in the following years we'll see a TT and RotK supplement as well.

This is great because now your given all you need to play and can add the extra stuff when your ready. All in all, I think this is a great direction for a already great game. Good for vets, good for noobs, and good for jaded 40k/WHFB fans.

macbeth
03-09-2005, 08:33
I tend to agree with what most people already said. If you want to play big battles and are not too found on Tolkien's background, you should play Warhammer instead, or even Warmaster if you want really big battles...

Warcrier
07-09-2005, 07:14
Mass Battle can be fun, I played a 1200 pt game against a friend of mine once it lasted about 2-3 hours. Its a different kind of experience that makes the game quite fun. New strategies are needed as characters can only control certain parts of the battlefield.

Seraphon
09-09-2005, 22:14
even though lotr is very scenario based there is a possibility of doing huge large scale battles like minas tirith and helms deep i know a couple of gaming clubs done a enormous minas tirith battle the board was like 20foot by 20 foot board with thousands of orcs it was great

rkunisch
10-09-2005, 20:21
even though lotr is very scenario based there is a possibility of doing huge large scale battles like minas tirith and helms deep i know a couple of gaming clubs done a enormous minas tirith battle the board was like 20foot by 20 foot board with thousands of orcs it was great
It would be quite interesting to find out how the minis were moved on such a board. :p

Have fun,

Rolf.

Seraphon
10-09-2005, 20:35
i think they switched the bases for those of the warhammer fantasy minatures and used movement trays

rkunisch
10-09-2005, 20:44
i think they switched the bases for those of the warhammer fantasy minatures and used movement trays
That sounds like a good idea, but it is a little difficult rules-wise. Still, if you play battles of this magnitude, some house-rules (or amendments) would be sensible.

It still needs long arms to reach in the middle of 20 foot by 20 foot board. ;)

Have fun,

Rolf.