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Crippler
07-08-2007, 15:04
I have recently purchased Army Builder as you may have seen from my other post.

When building my command squad for Calgar I noticed that you can only have an honour guard and no terminator command squad. Is this correct?

As at the moment I have him with a terminator command squad and a landraider
prometheus, which you also can not choose.

Can somebody confirm please?

The Anarchist
07-08-2007, 15:22
i belive this is a mistake on the part of army bulider, as using codex Space Marines you can give Clagar a set of Termi friends to go to battle with. as for the prometheus i not fully sure about that as its not in the codex, i assume IA in which case yu may have to purchase it seperatly from Clagar, but of corse can use it as his transport.

Crippler
07-08-2007, 15:39
I found this, http://www.ab40k.org/modules.php?name=Projects&op=PJReport&report_id=549

OK, the rules for the command squad are specific in that they may be taken to accompany a Commander, a Librarian, or a Chaplain. Marneus Cargar is none of these. Therefore he'll only get a Honour Guard as that is allowed by the rules in his section.

Spacker you are part of that forum, any help?

Any steps on editing the files would be good, with out having to read through the entire PDF file ;-)

Spetulhu
07-08-2007, 17:37
Marneus Calgar is a HQ choice but not specifically one that can take a regular Command Squad. His special rules states he may lead a group of Honour Guards.

I wouldn't make trouble if an opponent wanted to field Marneus with a normal Command Squad, but there doesn't seem to be any rules-based way of doing so.

Crippler
07-08-2007, 17:58
Any more for anymore???

Randy
07-08-2007, 18:06
It says he can JOIN a command strike and if he does he loses his deep strike ability. This implies he can take one.

It does however specifically state an honour guard unit and not a command squad.

Crippler
07-08-2007, 20:05
So just to confirm no terminator command squad for him only an honour guard?

Randy
07-08-2007, 20:07
To be perfectly honest, no terminator OR honour guard.

Smurfs aren't worthy of a bodyguard.

muskrat
07-08-2007, 21:28
Couldn't you just take a terminator squad and have him lead that? Wouldn't have the command squad bonus things, but he'd still be with termies.

Randy
07-08-2007, 21:30
More FoC slots, more terminators minimum.

Crippler
08-08-2007, 08:32
Well I guess I could swop in an honour guard, will have to be my next paiting unit then.

I did have a painted up terminator command squad, which is the real reason I was asking.

Also the box set that he come in was with honour guard, so honour guard it is thanks all.

Crippler
09-08-2007, 08:56
Marneus Clagar may swop his artificier armour and iron halo for a suit of terminator armour, however he may still join a command squad that is equipped with power armour, though he will forfeit his ability to deep strike

To me the above implies that he can lead either a space marine command squad, terminator command squad or an honour guard.

Marneus Calgar MAY lead an ultrmarines honour guard command squad

He MAY lead an honour guard squad, not must.

Under the honour guard entry it does imply that one command squad may be made up of honour guards.

So either Calgars squad or another squad can be honour guard.

Also in debate os the use of a Landraider Prometheus for Calgar as it states that The landraider Prometheus is a transport option for a Space Marine Command Squad.

Going by what is in the text alone, this is not available for a terminator command squad or Honour Guard, I believe this should be for all command squads.

Anybody have any idea where I could submit these for an official response as I will be making changes to the AB sm datafiles as per my other post.

Spacker
09-08-2007, 10:10
I've backed you up on the Prometheus on the AB site for the Honour Guard, and I've emailed FW to ask them for confirmation.

As to Marneus, this is the rule that allows him to take an Honour Guard Command Squad when in Terminator armour - they follow all the normal rules for Command Squads, including not normally allowing Terminator armoured characters to lead/attach to them, but the Options rule for Marneus allows him to join the Honour Guard squad even though they are in power armour. He will lose Deep Strike when doing so because the Honour Guard do not have terminator armour.

Nowhere does it state that Marneus can lead a normal Command Squad (either power or terminator armoured), and as these restrict their use to commanders, librarians, and chaplains, of which Marneus is none, he cannot lead one.

As to the use of "may" in the Honour Guard rule: this means he may take them, or he may not. It does not give him access to alternatives that are not listed. So rather than being always forced to take an Honour Guard, he can opt to simply be alone and take to the field as an Independent Character. As an IC he will be able to join the Command Squad (either power or terminator armoured) of another character during deployment or a Movement phase.

Crippler
09-08-2007, 10:28
But surely the below implies that he can take normal command squads, otherwise it would say that he had to take the honour guard, would have clarified the rules a lot easier.

Marneus Clagar may swop his artificier armour and iron halo for a suit of terminator armour, however he may still join a command squad that is equipped with power armour, though he will forfeit his ability to deep strike

Crippler
09-08-2007, 10:31
It also states in the fluff that Marneus Calgar is the renowned Master of the Ultramarines.

Masters can take all normal command squads.

Spetulhu
09-08-2007, 10:39
He does have Rites of Battle, so there's room to argue he's a Commander. If only the guy who wrote up the entry had stated it plainly.

Spacker
09-08-2007, 10:53
If you can get GW to add to the FAQ that he can take them, then I'll concede the point. But for now I stand by my post. I think GW made a mess of Marneus' rules, and it should clearly state that Command Squad = Honour Guard in his Options: rules.

As to Rites of Battle, it states "As Space Marine Commanders", it does not state "Marneus is a Space Marine Commander and so has Rites of Battle"; if it did state the latter, then there'd be a clear claim on him being able to take normal Command squads. "As" is used throughout the rules where rules equivalence is used; for instance Necron Destroyers "move as jetbikes", but that doesn't make them jetbikes.

Crippler
09-08-2007, 11:06
If you can get GW to add to the FAQ that he can take them, then I'll concede the point. But for now I stand by my post. I think GW made a mess of Marneus' rules, and it should clearly state that Command Squad = Honour Guard in his Options: rules.


I totally agree with you, that the rules point to him only being able to take an honour guard, just seems crazy that he can't take a terminator command squad, when he is the supposed master of the chapter and in terminator Armour himself.

Anybody know who I should contact at games workshop to get this confirmed or added to the FAQ?

Randy
09-08-2007, 20:01
It has his options.

His options say honour guard.

His options do NOT say command squad.

Nowhere does it have any implication that he may lead a command squad.

Therefor,e he cannot lead one.

Simple.

x_x

The_Outsider
10-08-2007, 00:28
Edit: nevermind.

Crippler
10-08-2007, 08:36
It has his options.

His options say honour guard.
x_x

His options say MAY LEAD not MUST LEAD

Randy
11-08-2007, 00:48
I mean an honour guard is included in his options. Which it is, I didn't mean he -has- to >_>


My point is honour guard are specifically mentioned - but a command squad isn't even hinted at. Like I said I personally wouldn't stop you taking Calgar with a designated ommand squad and all the pros/cons that come with it - but I wouldn't try it in a tourney.

RampagingRavener
11-08-2007, 00:57
His options say MAY LEAD not MUST LEAD

Indeed it does. You can feild him on his own, or you can buy a squad of Honour Gaurd for him.

It doesn't even imply that you can buy him a 'regular' command squad, or Terminator command squad.

Crippler
13-08-2007, 09:56
I personally think that it should have been included when the rules where written for him, but was missed off.

But that's fine, I suppose one way around this would be to take a librarian or chaplain in a Term Command and add calgar to that.

I think I might just field him with an honour guard instead, as long as I can put them in the LR Prometheus, it is all good.

Crippler
13-08-2007, 09:57
Made a double post due to some reason please delete.