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View Full Version : New Chaos... Will They Be Popular?



Panic
08-08-2007, 09:54
I see on different forums that GW have screwed up the recent Chaos Codex while also, there are people who are saying it was a good idea.
With the update, do you think Chaos will become popular?
Popular as in, a lot of people will start Chaos, or will it remain kind of the same?

I honestly think, unlike other army updates (like Eldar, the Eldar update was crazy... everyone where I play started playing them), Chaos will not be all that popular except for those younger kids who buy/collect whatever comes out.

I will be staying with Chaos for some time... but what are your thoughts?
Same, Increase in Popularity or Decrease in Popularity?

Yarick Zan
08-08-2007, 09:56
I know I will be starting a chaos army. I think it looks like a pretty solid 'dex.

The_Dragon_Rising
08-08-2007, 10:00
They were fairly popular anyway, many people would have got into them but decided to wait as they knew there was a new codex, they have shiny new stuff which always draws people in, so therefore i say they will increase in popularity.

Vaktathi
08-08-2007, 10:05
I think they will probably stay the same most likely, I think the codex will alienate alot of current chaos players but draw in probably just as many, but I dont think they will have a surge in popularity to much more than they currently are. (considering they are already quite popular)

Griffin
08-08-2007, 10:08
I'm continue playing mine - they look good.

DarthSte
08-08-2007, 10:09
I've preordered the boxed army. There will be an obvious spike in popularity - there always is. I think that you'll be seeing more of them in long run too. The fact that there are more and better plastics adds a lot of appeal to more people.

Goq Gar
08-08-2007, 10:13
Apparently there will be a Chaos Marines Codex, and a Chaos Creatures Codex. Two codexes for the same army. I cannot begin to speculate at the number of arguments this will start.

The army will increase in popularity at the start as everyone hops on the bandwagon, but then as soon as people realise there is FAR too much choice for their army, and that they will confuse most of their opponents right from the start, they will jump off the bandwagon, burn it, then jump up and down on it's ashes.

Just my prediction.

Vesica
08-08-2007, 10:21
shiny new stuff always boosts an armies popularity for the first few months, then i think you will see the number die down a little as people go back to old armies/ move on to new ones.

Scythe
08-08-2007, 10:25
Apparently there will be a Chaos Marines Codex, and a Chaos Creatures Codex. Two codexes for the same army. I cannot begin to speculate at the number of arguments this will start.


You mean like marine codexes, with the difference that marines have 5 instead of 2? ;)

Ow, and that the two Chaos dexes will actually be different, as the second book should be focussing on 'the lost and the damned', eg, traitors, mutants and daemons? :p

arkle
08-08-2007, 10:34
Renegade armies just seem a bit bland to me in the context of the codex. LATD intergration into the codex would be a truer represention of a renegade force and without LATD your basic army is rather similar to a normal space marine one. So personally I don't think they will be more popular, although I expect terminators and vindicators to sell really well.

Sureshot05
08-08-2007, 11:36
I think they will remain as they were. Every codex produces a set of moans from those who have to change or adapt their army to use it or are discontented with a rules change, and a set of contented players who are happy with the tweaks. Its always the same and we've all been on both sides of the fence. Taking myself, this year I've previously recieved a shiny new army book for the Empire and there were cries of dissappointment with that, but I was really pleased with the final book and am happy with the tweaks and (imho) improvements. Then I picked up Mighty Empires and well, I was on the "not too content" side instead.

Personally I'm looking forward to recieving my copy as everything I've read has sounded fairly encouraging. The question is what will be the expansions to my chaos black crusade force*? The new models are pleasing and the cult troops sound like they have been balanced and given a nice bit of character as well. The only upset I've seen is that we have generic daemons, but given that GW is planning on a second chaos book that deals with all the other chaos bits (lost and dammed, daemons, and other gibblies) I'm quite pleased to be able to let my imagination go riot and create some truly unique hellspawn to aid my black crusade in battle, not bound by having to state these "count as" any other daemon.

*Probably the possessed, i love the new plastics and anything with random rules is always fun!

Wraithbored
08-08-2007, 11:36
With the new thousand sons and the lash of submission I see a big rise in chaos armies. It's a very solid dex

Slaaneshi Slave
08-08-2007, 12:13
Apparently there will be a Chaos Marines Codex, and a Chaos Creatures Codex. Two codexes for the same army. I cannot begin to speculate at the number of arguments this will start.


None, its been like that with WFB for a long time.

dcikgyurt
08-08-2007, 12:15
I'm so heavily invested in chaos that they could have nerfed everything down gaurd stats for 50points I would probably still play them. All in though, I think popularity will increase when the new codex is released, but fickle players will then move on to the next race to have it's codex released. It's a trend I see quite a lot these days. Players are pulled in by hype and new models, and new rules and new.................you get my point. It's nothing more than clever marketing from GW.

When it all settles down however, I think chaos will have had a slight increase in the number of players. Most people who don't play chaos usually cite their main reason as its cheese and this has been cut back slightly.

jfrazell
08-08-2007, 12:20
A temporary short term bump, then decline. With the new codex, you lose the thematic/fluff guys as the codex is pretty cookie cutter. The power gamers will latch onto the two lash prince combo, be declared cheesy, and then move onto the next army for the next power gaming combo. Interesting to note, instead of a short 1 paragraph FAQ, GW is attempting to make LATD completely illegal (won't work in my part of the woods). http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/chaosspacemarines/gaming/lostdamned_list/default.htm

In contrast I think the follow on Apocalypse book may be much more popular.

Nurglitch
08-08-2007, 12:31
The new Chaos models are very pretty.

the1stpip
08-08-2007, 12:38
Its not a matter of fickle players not wanting to play with the new Codex.

I have played Chaos through three different Codices, and the new one looks to be the worst of the lot. It doesn't help that I use a dedicated Slaanesh force. I will not be using my chaos force, at least until the other Codex comes out.

It might be a very good Codex for non-aligned armies, but the rest of us get royally screwed over. The new codex doesn't support us, and we can't use the old one.

Nurglitch
08-08-2007, 12:42
Well, that's what you get for designing an army based on rules: an army that doesn't survive rule changes.

Scythe
08-08-2007, 12:45
Well, that's what you get for designing an army based on rules: an army that doesn't survive rule changes.

:wtf:

What the hell are you talking about?

Cult armies have nothing to do with min-maxing.

Goq Gar
08-08-2007, 12:52
Despite my earlier post, I feel it necessary to note how unbelievably beautiful (well, acutally, they're very ugly, being chaos and all, but in their ugliness, they are beautiful models).

Kriegschmidt
08-08-2007, 12:54
I think Chaos will increase in popularity. I think a lot of marine players will be drawn to AP3 standard weaponry, T5/FNP and WS5 marines with 3 attacks and Furious Charge.

I'm also really looking forward to using the new codex with my pure ThSons and my Iron Warriors.

Lord Malorne
08-08-2007, 12:56
well the fact they're being re-released as it always does will make the army more popular with the new models and all plus the rules will attract people though it might make current chaos players and people who play against chaos rather disgruntled.

Killgore
08-08-2007, 13:03
a combination of new models and some nasty rules will keep csm popular

i think every csm player old and new wont be able to resist the lure of a box of the new Terminators, i know i wont :)

jfrazell
08-08-2007, 13:26
a combination of new models and some nasty rules will keep csm popular

i think every csm player old and new wont be able to resist the lure of a box of the new Terminators, i know i wont :)

I know I can. But then again I view terminators as targets anyway :D

de Selby
08-08-2007, 13:27
In the short term, some people will start new armies as always.

After the first few months: I think the answer depends on the coming daemon codex. If it is easy to integrate with the CSM lists, it will get people collecting CSMs. I think the codex as it stands is poor, but I could see myself getting interested in 6 months if there is a second book with additional interesting options. If the daemon codex (or whatever it turns out to be) is largely or totally free-standing there won't be much cross-over with CSMs, and the 'chaos vote' will be split across two army types, probably leading to a decline in the number of CSM armies you see on the tabletop.

Nurglitch
08-08-2007, 13:45
Cult armies have nothing to do with min-maxing. Good thing I wasn't talking about min-maxing then eh?

Carlos
08-08-2007, 13:49
Death Guard: Better Plague marines and more choices available*

World Eaters: Actually usable Berzerkers and more choices available*

Thousand Sons: Finally a competitive list and more choices available*

Noise Marines: Huge pts hikes but more choices and no more 6-man limitations

* New choices include Vindicators, Raptors (Please somebody do a 20-man Raptor Squad lead by a Flying Lord AND Prince), Obliterators.

I feel for Slaanesh players but 20 Noise Marines might cost 500pts but is capable of shoving out 60 S4 AP5 shots per turn. That is any Nid players worst nightmare.

jfrazell
08-08-2007, 14:28
Death Guard: Better Plague marines and more choices available*

World Eaters: Actually usable Berzerkers and more choices available*

Thousand Sons: Finally a competitive list and more choices available*

Noise Marines: Huge pts hikes but more choices and no more 6-man limitations

* New choices include Vindicators, Raptors (Please somebody do a 20-man Raptor Squad lead by a Flying Lord AND Prince), Obliterators.

I feel for Slaanesh players but 20 Noise Marines might cost 500pts but is capable of shoving out 60 S4 AP5 shots per turn. That is any Nid players worst nightmare.

You pretty much could have done that with the current Black Legion list. The new codex just limits your options for developing a cult list.

I thought a Nid player's worst nightmare was a can of Raid :eek:

th0r
08-08-2007, 14:34
BTW, I made a 12 man squad of Noise Marines under the new codex, and not everyone had a sonic weapon and it came to 350pts. Anyone who's used to playing 40k will tell you thats way to expensive as a few bad rolls and a 3rd of your army could be gone 1st turn.

inquisitor solarris
08-08-2007, 14:38
khorne bezerkersdon't have the +d6 movement though i don't have a chaos army that's not normal even if it means it gives me more shoot

inquisitor solarris
08-08-2007, 14:40
warp time however is tempting but it's oneuse and it only takes a psyhic hood or runes of warding to mess it up

Voodoo Boyz
08-08-2007, 14:47
A temporary short term bump, then decline. With the new codex, you lose the thematic/fluff guys as the codex is pretty cookie cutter. The power gamers will latch onto the two lash prince combo, be declared cheesy, and then move onto the next army for the next power gaming combo. Interesting to note, instead of a short 1 paragraph FAQ, GW is attempting to make LATD completely illegal (won't work in my part of the woods). http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/chaosspacemarines/gaming/lostdamned_list/default.htm

In contrast I think the follow on Apocalypse book may be much more popular.

100% agreement on the short term "new army bump" and then a decline.

With the vast reduction in effectiveness in Demons many players armies who were centered around them are invalid.

Many competitive players are now finding they are going to have to invalidate a ton of their models and buy new ones or they just better give up to compete with the other 4th ed dex's like Marines, Eldar, Nids, and Tau.

For all the rest of the players who aren't as competitive, I just don't see things in this book to draw them in compared to what was in the last one, so that should remain static, though I'm sure you'll see increased sales of the 1kSons box sets.

Panic
08-08-2007, 14:53
For all the rest of the players who aren't as competitive, I just don't see things in this book to draw them in compared to what was in the last one, so that should remain static, though I'm sure you'll see increased sales of the 1kSons box sets.
Yeap. That is so true.
My local hobby store's ThSons boxed sets are already all sold out and there are a lot... I mean A LOT of people waiting for the 1Ksons to come in... Kinda freaked me out.

Hydian
08-08-2007, 23:09
I see on different forums that GW have screwed up the recent Chaos Codex while also, there are people who are saying it was a good idea.

Really, these are two seperate things.

GW did screw up the new codex royally. They completely hosed anyone who played a theme army (unless their theme was bland crap on a stick.) This applies especially to cults and legions, but also to other themes like daemon heavy lists, deathwing style lists, and what have you. The new codex lacks any sort of flavor and doesn't have the ability to create themed armies that the last codex did (or that the eldar codex, C:SM, IG, etc do.) They also tore out the fluff and stomped all over it (yet again.)

Sure, there were abuses to be addressed, but only a retarded monkey would equate (for example) removing all EC related items other than a single troops entry with the abuse that was Siren. This type of move was not done to curb abuses, but to dumb down the list to a single entity with slight variation rather than allowing it to be essentially a blueprint for a huge number of distinct lists. Removing old abuses was also done, but that was a completely different issue.

All of that said, if we look at the codex as if it was a new army and not a rewrite of the 3rd edition codex (and let's face it, that's pretty much the reality here) the codex looks pretty decent. Looking at it from a gaming perspective, it is a nice Black Legion style list and should do well on the table top. You really have to ignore the background though. Not just because it doesn't fit with the old background, but because it isn't logical within its own boundries.

Overall, I think that there will be a sharp decline in chaos players initially as all of the people playing theme/cult/legion armies either leave the hobby, stop playing chaos, or step back to reassess what they're doing (possibly starting Ork armies at the end of the year.) Then there will be a steady increase from those lowered levels as the powergaming possibilities of the list become more evident (and more books also get reworked to be less appealing in turn.) In the end, I expect that the overall percentage of chaos players will be the same.

W0lf
08-08-2007, 23:32
i was always put of chaos as it was a codex full of cheese lists.

Playing world eaters seemed more like cheating then winning fairly.

thus im all for the new dex.

Oh and chaos will be as popluar as ever. The die hards wont leave and as a Marine army they will always have lots of players

muskrat
08-08-2007, 23:46
As much complaining about cultists as I've done recently, the Chaos dex is, actually, quite good. I bemoan the lack of gifts and customization, and don't necessarily think stream lining is that good of an idea, but i do like it. they took out a lot of simply over powered and crazy things, and left what is good.

I don't, however, agree that they should have removed the cult lists completely.

Katkiller 5
08-08-2007, 23:48
I say that Chaos will stay about the same in popularity.. might lose some Cult/legion players, pick up some converts.. no mass-migrations in or out.

Amornar
08-08-2007, 23:55
Total agreement about the lack of customization and the ruining of themed armies, and I can say that I am very disappointed with the new dex from that view. Unfortunately the rules themselves came out quite powerful and I can see facing some supped up power gaming armies.

Drogmir
09-08-2007, 00:04
I think it's gonna spike then drop. Like Empire or Dwarfs.

People always use it as an excuse to buy models, only to find out they can't play with the new codex for squat then move on.

Sergeant Vaathan
09-08-2007, 00:14
As with any new release for an army, everyone goes out to buy the new models right away. It doesn't matter which army, but when any army gets a big update people buy.

Brother-Hyuuga
09-08-2007, 03:35
I'll restart my Alpha Legion. I'm going to do them up to demonstrate them deceiving there opponents. Convert a Leman Russ into a Vindicator with the words For the Emperor across the dozer blade. Paint one of the tactical squads up in Dark Angels livery with Alpha Legion marking. Throw in Raptors, Terminators and some Berzerkers for assault purposes. I'll have a nice well rounded force.

Corporal Chaos
09-08-2007, 04:48
I will definately get the new dex and some of the models to boost my existing Chaos army. I think the new dex may bring in some new converts.....

jhon
09-08-2007, 05:07
the so call new dex is like taking a step back to the 3 ed choas dex , simple , easy to read .back in the 3 ed their is not much ppl using choas because , it is kind of weak and the army list is quite bore . but this thime will be diffence due to GW had making evey other army dex as bore as choas is .....