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shadowprince
24-08-2005, 04:48
Lv2 Mage Jewel of dusk dispel scroll

Commander Reaver Bow Heavy Armor Great weopon

8 Silver Helms Full command War Banner

18 Spear elfs Full Command

Chariot

5 Reavers

Army hasn't lost yet. Beat a 1500 DoW army and in a tournament whent like this

1st Game
HE 1700 Victory pts
Dow 250

2nd Game
HE 1700 Victory pts
Chaos 185

3rd Game
He 1380 Victory pts
DE 585

shadowprince
24-08-2005, 04:50
Moderater plz delete ths one it posted 2 times one on tactics one on army list delete tactics 1 plz

Nathaniel
24-08-2005, 05:28
You're horribly outnumbered, atleast you've got mobility for everything but those spearelves.

shadowprince
24-08-2005, 05:55
Dude i am an Elf i am supposed to be horrbly outnumbered didn't you get the memo lol

Eldacar
24-08-2005, 06:23
Dude i am an Elf i am supposed to be horrbly outnumbered didn't you get the memo lol
You don't have to be.


Commander Reaver Bow Heavy Armor Great weopon
What is his purpose? If you want someone to run around and snipe things, then give him an Eagle/Barded Steed, throw in the Enchanted Shield and a Lance, and send him off. It gives you a good sniper who can also charge into a unit to hold it up if he has to.


8 Silver Helms Full command War Banner
Units of 8 SH aren't that effective, IMO. First, if even one of them is killed, then you have paid the points for three Silver Helms who won't be doing that much at all. Hence, a lot of HE players tend to go with units of 5 or 6, because they can deal more attacks while not being too worried about losing rank bonus (because they don't have one to begin with).


18 Spear elfs Full Command
Why 18? 16 will give you a 4x4 formation that can dish out 12 attacks, or 20 will let you throw 15 attacks in a 5x4 formation, while they give you a decent rank bonus for starters, and then you don't have to worry about losing an entire rank as much, since you aren't losing any attacks.


Chariot

5 Reavers
In my experience, two Chariots work better than 5 Reavers, but that's personal preference.

Finally, why not use Eagles? They are the best unit in the HE list, and are damn cheap at 50 points each. You could probably drop either the mage or the commander for them, since you don't need two characters in 1000 point armies.

EDIT: And on the mobility note, every unit barring those Spearelves can move quickly (assuming you mounted the Commander and Mage), so why keep a unit that will only slow you down?

Nathaniel
24-08-2005, 06:33
Eldacar you said it better than I ever could.


Dude i am an Elf i am supposed to be horrbly outnumbered didn't you get the memo lol

I play against horde armies like Skaven and I've never been that outnumbered, simply put with elves they die too easily from nearly anything so an opponent gets one good round of shooting at you and you're gone.

shadowprince
24-08-2005, 22:33
You don't have to be.


What is his purpose? If you want someone to run around and snipe things, then give him an Eagle/Barded Steed, throw in the Enchanted Shield and a Lance, and send him off. It gives you a good sniper who can also charge into a unit to hold it up if he has to.


Units of 8 SH aren't that effective, IMO. First, if even one of them is killed, then you have paid the points for three Silver Helms who won't be doing that much at all. Hence, a lot of HE players tend to go with units of 5 or 6, because they can deal more attacks while not being too worried about losing rank bonus (because they don't have one to begin with).


Why 18? 16 will give you a 4x4 formation that can dish out 12 attacks, or 20 will let you throw 15 attacks in a 5x4 formation, while they give you a decent rank bonus for starters, and then you don't have to worry about losing an entire rank as much, since you aren't losing any attacks.


In my experience, two Chariots work better than 5 Reavers, but that's personal preference.

Finally, why not use Eagles? They are the best unit in the HE list, and are damn cheap at 50 points each. You could probably drop either the mage or the commander for them, since you don't need two characters in 1000 point armies.

EDIT: And on the mobility note, every unit barring those Spearelves can move quickly (assuming you mounted the Commander and Mage), so why keep a unit that will only slow you down?


you are right about the silverhealms i conceded that, and thanks for the advice, I don't have the eagle becuase i don't have the modle and don't really feel like spending 20$ on it atm. Also explains why the commander isn't on an eagle, and I have a commander modle I like on foot. But the commanders purpose is to dish out some damage to higher toughness units and characters on monsters, or monsters in general. Spear elfs are in 18 becuase that equals 12 attacks on charge and 19 base attacks with champ. But as an Elf i am outnumbered by the amrmies i normally play necromancers, skaven orcs and DoW, also as a general I handle smaller forces better, but i might drp three of the helms for another chariot. Also the Spear elfs are there to provide a block of unites that can get me some ranks, was useing swordmasters before but decided i didn't like them in 1000 points.

Eldacar
25-08-2005, 00:55
I don't have the eagle becuase i don't have the modle and don't really feel like spending 20$ on it atm.
You can buy eagles from things like hobby stores for much less. You don't have to buy the GW ones if you don't want to.


But the commanders purpose is to dish out some damage to higher toughness units and characters on monsters, or monsters in general.
He has a weak armour save and is on foot. If you want him to be doing that, then get him mounted on something so that he can move around more effectively. Otherwise, don't bother with it.


Spear elfs are in 18 becuase that equals 12 attacks on charge and 19 base attacks with champ.
So they're in the 6x3 formation? Right. First, every elf you lose is one less attack you'll be able to deliver. Second, there aren't lots of units with a 6-model-frontage. Most take either 4 or 5 models wide and then go four or five deep. Hence, you have somewhere between three and 6 elves who aren't really doing that much. Thirdly, the rest of your army will outpace them in no time at all. All they are doing is slowing you down.


Also the Spear elfs are there to provide a block of unites that can get me some ranks, was useing swordmasters before but decided i didn't like them in 1000 points.
This is primarily a fast list. If you combine your charges, then you can be on top of your enemy and winning before he knows it. As it is, you are being slowed down by the Spearelves. You almost have a full all-cavalry list anyway, so you aren't losing much. Actually, you'd be gaining, as you are getting increased movement ability with no loss. You don't need ranks, since if you combine your charges right and flank the enemy (very easy with M8 or M9 cavalry), then rank bonus won't mean much. Not to mention that you get S5 on the charge with Silver Helms.

shadowprince
25-08-2005, 01:12
first the only place a can get an eagle where I live is a GW store, second I use the commander as a scout like person, and with a mount he becomes a worse sniper going down to 90 degree line of sight. Also the In my style of play the 4X4 formation doesn't work, and if you calculate I have no points left. also if you go max frontage all elves get into combat. And how I see it if they are shot at my other units arent so they make a good pin cussion. Also the elves are to help against the spears are to help with the three armies I play frequently and have trouble with Undead, Demons and slayers, all of which don't care if the silver helms charge the units won't be obtiterated. But u do have valid arguments, and i refuse to do an all cav list I have tried it and it never works when played against very good generals.

WraithKnight
25-08-2005, 01:20
Remember, Eldacar, that models touching the corner of an enemy unit can still attack that unit, so a 6-wide formation can get full attacks on a 4-wide formation (unless it's 6 25mm models vs. 4 20mm models)
shadowprince: 18 spearelves 6x3 means as soon as you take casualties you are losing attacks, and 3 casualties, not a particularly difficult feat vs. elves, brings you down to +1 rank bonus, hardly acceptable for core infantry. If you're going to stick with that unit, at least make it bigger.

shadowprince
25-08-2005, 01:45
I probably will thank you for the insight might drop three Silverhealms and take 6 spear elvs and some other stuff will look it over
Thank you for the advice

Eldacar
25-08-2005, 02:05
Remember, Eldacar, that models touching the corner of an enemy unit can still attack that unit, so a 6-wide formation can get full attacks on a 4-wide formation (unless it's 6 25mm models vs. 4 20mm models)
I know. But the thing is, he'll be getting those full attacks against larger-base size units like Chaos, not against the cheap rank&file that a lot of armies have.


second I use the commander as a scout like person, and with a mount he becomes a worse sniper going down to 90 degree line of sight.
But he gets the bonus of being able to quickly move around and a better armour save. Look at him. He only has a 5+ AS, which is, in short, pathetic. Cavalry will charge him. Against S5, he gets no save at all. Even with a 3+ AS, he will be down to a 5+ AS, which gives him a 1/3 chance of surviving. Not very good odds for one of only two characters. Ideally, if you put him on a barded elven steed and throw a shield and lance onto him in place of the GW, he will be getting a better AS, be able to avoid combat easier, and can get up and around other units where he can see the artillery, mages, and so on, and kill them.


and i refuse to do an all cav list I have tried it and it never works when played against very good generals.
The all-cav list is the powergaming option, and the easiest way to play HE. I have used it before (just for reference, I play a balanced force because it is more in keeping with the style of how the HE are supposed to play the best). Check the following site for most of the tactics with regards to cavalry, especially the articles written by Ryo.

http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/cms_articles.php?cid=6

shadowprince
25-08-2005, 23:26
All calv is deffinatly the easier option, but the thing is the commander is ment to take out fast calv and skirmishes, both of which if played rught will never come into his line f sight if he is on a horse, a good solution might be to put him on the chariote as a comprimise this way he can see, take the lance and sheild and drop the GW, also wil make him pack a punch. I already know the risk of the chariote character.