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View Full Version : Empire vs Dwarfs (2000 pts) - what should i do ???



KnightGriffon05
08-08-2007, 18:10
I'm using empire.

I was thinking going all out magic. i'm talking Balthasar Gelt (commandment of brass, spirit of the forge FTW!), as many level 2 wizards as i can. I was also thinking a cheap Captain on horseback with VHS to challenge the Dwarf Lord and use the VHS on him.

Also should i go with lots of close combat infantry or more shooting units (war machines, handgunners etc)?

Khorghan
08-08-2007, 18:30
Go will knights and make a mobile army to screw over the slow dwarves.

Huw_Dawson
08-08-2007, 18:50
Balthasar is awsome, but your still not getting many power dice. If your opponent gets any hint of you loading out on magic, expect to see two runesmiths with 4 dispel scrolls and a couple of those runes that increase dispel power.

If it's a dwarf gunline, just load out on cavalry and charge his tiny men to smithereens. If it's a castle, your going to need something to take out his warmachines, fast. That's when Lore of Metal comes into it's own for you. ;)

- Huw

KnightGriffon05
08-08-2007, 20:40
I dont really trust knights. whenever i used them they did absolutely nothing. once a squad of knights got owned by a squad of skinks - i'm not kidding.

Peril
08-08-2007, 20:54
Empire Cavalry will not cut it against Dwarves. Your better bet against Dwarves is using Great Cannons against his war machines. Once you achieve firepower superiority, he will have to start aproaching you. Flank him, and you have got him. Also, he will likely only get one table quarter. Take the other three.

Airlith
09-08-2007, 00:49
Magic heavy is no good against Dwarves, they tend to have more anti magic then anyone but khorn. Knights are a good option, and for the love of god take at least 2 cannons. For close combat infantry go with swordsman and halberdiers

Fideru
09-08-2007, 01:02
Well, Lore of Metal isn't that great, since they're flaming attacks (right?), and the Rune of the Furnace really kills if you attempt to hurt their characters.

kroq'gar
11-08-2007, 07:06
Dwarfs are very, very, very hard for empire. Their infantrys better, they are infinately braver, better shots, your knights struggle to break them, their warmachines are more accurate, they have massive anti magic and terrifying lords. Everything you can do, they can do better- bar one thing. Numbers.

on a side note, if you challange him with van host and hes a decent player, he'll accept with his unit champion and then destroy your unit.



Its a rather negative outlook, but sadly a reality. Empire used to destroy dwarfs, but with their new list i feel their weaknesses were rather overzelously corrected.

Your hope against that dwarf lord is sword of fate, and a grand master. Dont challenge him, just allocate your attacks. With him dead, hammerers arnt immune to fear (handy that empire knights have a banner to cause fear on the charge).

Try autobreak them. Otherwise, your knights die.

Take at least one great cannon- these things are your only weapon against dwarven artillery (and damn fun to break things with)

Magic heavy isnt an option against dwarfs now, your better forsaking magic entirley and then he'd have wasted points on anti magic and you've got an edge.

Another thing i've recently found to hurt them is outriders, a unit of 10 puts out 30 handgun shots over a relatively small frontage. Dwarfs arnt an army you break, you have to kill them all.

State troops seem to be nothing but cheap fodder against them, if you take any, use them to set up counter charges rather hope to them actually doing anything. Helstorm batteries are a must, dwarfs being an army that relies on being densly packed, they are perfect targets.

Hope some of this helps. If you find anything that works let me know, i find them very hard to beat.

KnightGriffon05
11-08-2007, 11:03
well if you put it that way i have no chance against dwarfs. so what you're saying is go with lots of artillery, cannons and handgunners even. Strike him from a distance as i have no chance in close combat.

As in magic, if i completely load up my Characters section with wizards and BG i think i would still have the magical advantage. 12 power dice is hard to beat, and thats not even including items such as Rod of Command, Wizards Staff, etc... .

So with cannons and lore of metal i should be able to shatter his machinery. OR i can go for a more risky approach which worked for me in other games -Huntsmen (actually i used gnoblar trappers in the other game but huntsmen wud do much more damage). We always play with forests so i could flank his crewmen - one less machine to worry about.

For his lord i was thinking around two Hochland Long rifles. Or i could use them on his runesmiths. What you think?

If all goes as planned i'll just have his infantry to worry about - but then again i'm guaranteed to have my war machines still intact.

Fideru
11-08-2007, 12:01
I think for the Hochland, there isn't much chance there. On a Master Engineer, if its long range, would be a 5 to hit, 5 to wound, than more than likely a 3+ armour save than a 4+ ward save.

KnightGriffon05
12-08-2007, 07:38
ok ok i see what you're saying. btw if i give it to a marksman (or i give two marksmen hocland rifles) its the same BS as a Master Engineer. Now about what you said - i agree, so how about i use the rifles on the runesmiths (or anyone helping with dispel magic) and then use a Captain on Pegasus with VHS to quickly get in and challenge the lord.

TheEighthDwarf
14-08-2007, 11:16
Did you lay the battle yet? if not do you have the Dwarf list?

kroq'gar
14-08-2007, 11:31
VHS wont work. If you challenge, his champion will accept (VHS is the most predictable item. I actually dont take it now, and laugh when lords refuse challenges from my wizard). Its the phycological impact of that item that makes it valuable.

Dwarfs have 4 base dispel, +1 for a runesmith. Rune of balance takes one of your power dice, and gives it to him as dispel. Magic resistance is easy as for dwarfs to accumulate & a runesmith can take the equal of 3 dispell scrolls, or a scroll of destruction & a dispell scroll.

A runelord can take the equal of 7 dispell scrolls, and on an anvil generates 4 dispel dice.

A hochland longrifle wouldnt even dent a dwarf lord. toughness 5, 1+ armour save (sometimes rerollable) and a 4+ ward is pretty standard. (they get 150 point item allowance, plus the advantage of tailoring with runes)

Use your numbers, and their slow advance. you can nearly get two hanguns for one of his thunderers.

The thing with empire is their diversity, i find all out magic usually lets me down, but then again, it can work. Its a key strength you have that he has absolutely no idea what hes going to face. It could be a cavalry army, a hoarde of foot soldiers, a gunline, a magic heavy army. Find a way to use it to your advantage.

KnightGriffon05
14-08-2007, 14:04
ok i'm making a list. i'm basically doing this:

Karl Franz + Ghal Maraz + Pegasus (Lord slayer :P)

BSB

Lots of GUNS - 4 great cannons, handgunners galore, bla bla bla

Close combat infantry is basically Halberdiers and Swordsmen.

Varath- Lord Impaler
14-08-2007, 14:10
Karl Franz + Ghal Maraz + Pegasus (Lord slayer :P)

BSB

Lots of GUNS - 4 great cannons, handgunners galore, bla bla bla

Close combat infantry is basically Halberdiers and Swordsmen with a Warrior Priest among them.

If you play the shooting game, the next time you play the Dwarf will bring a crossbow line and demolish you.

Play infantry, force him to make a couple of decisions. Standing in front of him is good, he will charge, smash your unit and then you have his army out of position.

You have the troops to sacrifice, use them.

KnightGriffon05
14-08-2007, 14:29
If you play the shooting game, the next time you play the Dwarf will bring a crossbow line and demolish you.

Play infantry, force him to make a couple of decisions. Standing in front of him is good, he will charge, smash your unit and then you have his army out of position.

You have the troops to sacrifice, use them.

this game is a one time thing. my opponent plays with lizzies usually, this is just for fun.

Kerill
14-08-2007, 14:53
Use the long rifles to take out unit champions, then challenge with the speculum, War altar and lector with vanhostmanns is pretty damn good against dwarven lords and thanes.

KnightGriffon05
14-08-2007, 14:56
ok here is the army list

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1827341#post1827341