PDA

View Full Version : 2000 pt Tchar. Good enough list?



W0lf
08-08-2007, 19:44
Heros 749
Beastlord Phak'Dharzeen of Tchar
Staff of Darkoth, Armour of damnation
290 pts
*Joins beast herd*

Exalted Champion of Tchar, Kh'Azyteen (GENERAL)
Gaze of the Gods, Shield, Steed
218 pts

*joins marauders or warriors*

Aspiring Champion of Tchar, Lethek'Tzeen
Battle standard, Blasted Standard, Steed
241 pts

*Joins marauders or warriors*


Core: 647 pts
23 Marauders
Full command, Light armour, Shields
186 pts

23 Marauders
Full command, Light armour, Shields
186 pts

5 Chosen Tchar Knights
Standard, Musician
275 pts

Special: 293 pts
Tuskgor Chariot
85 pts

Tuskgor Chariot
85 pts

Beast Herd
Full command, 8 Gors, 8 Ungors
123 pts

Rare: 306 pts
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Light armour, Great weapon
306 pts

1995 pts Exactly.

Magic:
11 Power dice
6 Dispel Dice
1 Scroll

Notes:
Tchar;the name that Tzeentch is known by to the most Northen tribes.
Kh'Azyteen; Time-Blue-Change Or Changing of time.
Phak'Dharzeen; Event-Black-Change Or Change to Death (from life)
Lethek'Tzeen; Master of-place-Change Or Master of Changing places

12 Power dice makes for a good magic phase and i find it well rounded.
6 Dispel dice is what i consider minimum dispel to counter a medium/average enemy magic phase.
Scroll is for emergency.

Set up:
The Marauders and chaos warriors set up next to each other (to guard the inner flanks) as the core. Each joined by a hero. The BSB helps them hold the line.

The Tuskgor chariots team up as do the knights and Shaggoth. Each roll up a flank or up the same flank.

The beastmen are flexible enough to be deployed where needed. They will most likely be used in the core with the knights + marauders and hope for flank/rear charges.

Tactics:
The shaggoth + knights on one side helps to draw fire away from the rest of the army. It also makes target priority a little less of a no-brainer. With both in the same place should one die its not the end of the world.

If the knights and shaggoth hit a unit together they will make one hell of a mess. also with two chances to pursue - both at 3d6 - broken enemies are unlikely to get away.

I use them together as they both have the same movement. Both inspire fear in most enemy players.

I havnt put a exalted in with the knights as they are expensive enough and with the shaggoth hit very hard.

The chariots will hopefulyl hit a unit together an break it. If they can break through the enemy lines they can cause mayhem.

If one dies then the other will try and hit a unit to declare atatcks at weak characters such as wizards.

At 170 pts for 2 chariots they are very expendable.

The core of troops will be where most my spell casting comes from. The warriors were chosen other another block of marauders because i want some hitting power and they grant an extra PD. Im aware another block of marauders would be better for its pts but i simply dont care.

On the same note as the warriors i know 3 DOs are better then 1 Shaggoth but:

A: i have a shaggoth
B: i resent spending 36 on 3 ***** models
C: the Shaggoth is a centre piece.

manickze
08-08-2007, 19:59
Warriors suck, take more beast herds. Mortals become Special choices in a beast list. I'd drop an exalted and go for another wargor.

W0lf
08-08-2007, 20:00
Its a mortals list.

And wargors are very pants.

theunwantedbeing
08-08-2007, 20:04
Lol,nicely put.
I like the comments,everything seems perfectly sound.

Your beastlord cant ride a chariot,he has the mark of tzeentch,the chariots have the mark of undivided and cannot be given the mark of tzeentch.
(shame as you'de have really cheap perdice generators...lol)
His great weapon is of less use if he could go in a chariot anyway.

The points value for your warriors seems off....
Im assuming they have sheilds
They'de be 260pts not 255

Your chosen warriors really should be called chosen knights.

Your 6pts over rather than 5 by my count.
So drop a marauder or a gor.

W0lf
08-08-2007, 20:21
'Your 6pts over rather than 5 by my count.
So drop a marauder or a gor.'

*waves goodbye to the gor.*


'Your chosen warriors really should be called chosen knights.'

My bad. was a typo.

manickze
08-08-2007, 21:09
If you're gonna try and roll at leadership 8, at least take a BSB, because at LD8 with Chaos you need the reroll.

W0lf
08-08-2007, 22:34
how would you suggest i incoperate him in?

and which exalted to drop?

what unit would he go in..

etc etc

rexim
08-08-2007, 23:35
1, mount all your characters for more save(ofc not beast as they can't)
2, drop the shagot
3, get a BSB
4, your lord need staff of change
5, warriors are a points sink = drop them
6, WARHOUNDS and marauder horsemen

To make this list better i would, drop the warriors, the E champ with scroll and the shagoth and replayse them with 5 chosen knightswith FC, a mounted BSB, with Sword of might, and scroll. 2*5 warhounds, 2*5 marauder horse men and staff of change for your lord. I think that is about the same points. if there is any points over get some more ungor as you will need them. (panik at ld 8 is bad to heards)

manickze
09-08-2007, 00:26
Pretty much wot he said, if there are any points left over get some more Beastherds, It's supposed to be a Beast army ;-)

W0lf
09-08-2007, 14:24
1, mount all your characters for more save(ofc not beast as they can't)
2, drop the shagot
3, get a BSB
4, your lord need staff of change
5, warriors are a points sink = drop them
6, WARHOUNDS and marauder horsemen

1. Im not mounting my characters for +2 save. One has a Great wpn the other has a shield. Im fairly happy with thm as they are.

2. Read the bit of my post detailing why this wont happen.

3. Im looking into it.. i will be replacing one exalted with one.

4. actually your wrong. At 251 pts hes a VERY cheap lvl 4 sorc. Im happy with that. At his current points cost should he die its half the blow. Im not happy putting 65pts into a 251 pt character so he can avoid miscasts.

5. I agree but same as shaggoth.

6. If i found the points id be more inclined to go for Furies and screamers actually.

Changes:


Heros 652
Beastlord Phak'Dharzeen of Tchar
Chaos armour, Great weapon
251 pts
*Joins a herd or rides in a chariot (not yet decided) *

Exalted Champion, Kh'Azyteen
Armour of Damnation, Shield
202 pts

*joins marauders or warriors*

Exalted Champion, Lethek'Tzeen
Dispel Scroll, Great weapon
199 pts

*Joins marauders or warriors*

TO

Heros 655
Beastlord Phak'Dharzeen of Tchar
Chaos armour, Great weapon
251 pts
*Joins beast herd*

Exalted Champion of Tchar, Kh'Azyteen (GENERAL)
Armour of Damnation, Great Weapon
204 pts

*joins marauders or warriors*

Aspiring Champion of Tchar, Lethek'Tzeen
Battle standard, Dispel Scroll
200 pts

*Joins marauders or warriors*

Kerill
10-08-2007, 06:32
Well the staff's main purpose is not avoiding miscasts IMHO its for making your magic defence far more potent. Re-rolling dispel die is extremely useful. A level 4/5 bound spell takes 2 DD to safely dispel. With the staff its just 1. (this is almost like getting 2 extra DD per turn, you could drop the scroll maybe and save 25 points)

It also means if you roll badly for casting a spell you can re-roll the dice so you don't waste them (which in practive nets you another 2 PD per turn)

Thats 110 points of abilities right there. Also it avoids miscasts (at least 20 points) and if you really want it too you can use it to try for irresistable force (not the best idea but probly worth 10 points.

In short its a bargain.



I'm a great believer in mounted characters. For 16 points you are getting +2 armour save (your battle standard,as is, will be dead almost as soon as he is charged, T4, 2 wounds 4+ save (enemy has a -1/-2 modifier). You are getting an extra S4 attack, you are saving the cost of a trooper (for the warrior regiment that means the steed is free) and you have the option to leave the unit to charge things or move out of a decimated unit to another without slowing your whole battleline- an aspiring and an exalted charging together can easily take on a unit of knights (you have a standard and will certainly rack up some kills). The battle standard or exalted can also handily beat an annoying unit of light cavalry getting ready to flank. Finally if you get the ward save spell off you can move it to the unit that needs it most.

The chariots are great and cheap(but beastlord can't ride them).

The shaggoth is more expennsive than and less combat effective than 3 DO (although terror is cool, he can pivot rather than wheel and takes up less space). I guess you have the model so fair enough.

Your beastlord is very vulnerable at present, he needs a ward save or regeneration. If you really don't want the staff of change and want to save points, at least consider 25 points for the staff of darkoth- a great movement spell, and a choice of +2S or a 2+ save (with chaos armour). You don't need a GW any more so in fact its only 21- a steal, a bargain. Get yourself a staff of SOME kind :)

Incidentally, chosen without a character don't need to pay 20 points for a champion so you can save 20 points here easily enough.

A warbanner somewhere would be nice too. (warriors to make them hold, knights to break things faster or aspiring so you can have a mobile (with steed) +2 combat res and 3S5, 1S4 attack.

What are your warriors armed with?
No fliers to take down warmachines to protect your shaggoth?

W0lf
10-08-2007, 09:23
Thanks alot Keril.

Some big changes:

Beastlord Phak'Dharzeen of Tchar
Chaos armour, Staff of Darkoth, Gaze of the Gods
300 pts
*Joins beast herd*

Hes been given Gaze of the Gods and the staff of Darkoth. This gives him what is effectivly Danse Macrabre and a 4+ ward. He then gets to choose if he wants to fight with +2 S or +2AS. 2+ save and 4+ ward or 4+ save 4+ ward and a great weapon that strikes at I6.

Exalted Champion of Tchar, Kh'Azyteen (GENERAL)
Armour of Damnation, Sword of Might, Shield, Steed
238 pts

*joins marauders or warriors or Knights.*

Sword of Might makes him that bit more killy. I may also field him in the chosen knights depending on who im up against. Example: vs other chaos id have him with the knights. Mounted so he can join knights and gains +2 AS.

Aspiring Champion of Tchar, Lethek'Tzeen
Battle standard, Dispel Scroll, Steed
216 pts

Mounted for +2 AS.


Others:

The warrior are now marauders. (i knew it would happen)
Both marauders at fielded at 23 with a mounted Hero.

Knights lost their champion.

Kerill
10-08-2007, 10:29
Chaos warriors, chaos gods love them (no-one else does). Still its a shame to seem them go (with a/hw and warbanner they are quite decent), seldom make the final cut, same in my armies.

2000 points is so much tighter than 2150 I find. Still we can potentially save a few more points:

First thing I would suggest is a halberd instead of sword of might and shield. True you lose the save but you save 18 points.

Your beastlord has a 4/6 chance of getting a 5+ ward spell, the exalted only a 2/6 chance. As a result I would suggest giving the Exalted gaze of the gods and the beastlord AOD- this saves you 10 points on the chaos armour.

28 points spare- if you can scrape together enought points for a basic spawn cool, otherwise bulk out the herd so it becomes a true battle herd.

Another possible way to save points is to make one of the heroes Undivided and give them the book of secrets- you lose a power die but dispel die are the same. Since any mark can join marauders its not a problem in this list now, saves 30 points which may or may not be useful.

Incidentally, since you seem quite attached to the shaggoth (great model, not the best use of points) I'm suprised I've not seen a shaggoth champion appear in any of your lists yet. I've been considering the possibility of a shaggoth champion leading a unit of 16 Tzaangors with the blasted banner (for the 5+ward save) as the best way of fielding it. Of course then your army becomes a beast army rather than mortal but this list already has 3 beast units and 3 mortal units so wouldn't be a big difference. You would lose magic (beastlord would become a wargor) but could probably sqeeze in another combat unit and a power familiar somewhere to keep the magic levels up.

W0lf
10-08-2007, 18:19
First thing I would suggest is a halberd instead of sword of might and shield. True you lose the save but you save 18 points.

Your beastlord has a 4/6 chance of getting a 5+ ward spell, the exalted only a 2/6 chance. As a result I would suggest giving the Exalted gaze of the gods and the beastlord AOD- this saves you 10 points on the chaos armour.

28 points spare- if you can scrape together enought points for a basic spawn cool, otherwise bulk out the herd so it becomes a true battle herd.

your first two suggestions are good (and thus done). The 28 pts will be combined by another 25 (by dropping the scroll)

Then i will purchase the Blasted standard for my BSB. Thus giving one unit ward save and adding a Bound spell. The beauty of the standard is that the enemy will need 2 dice to reliably dispel it... Dice they wont have spare after a Tzeentch Magic phase.

As for the shaggoth idea i have considered it many times, It keeps falling flat however as it makes the Shaggoth 386 pts. It dosnt add to his durability which makes him a big points sink should he die.

I like to not invest too many pts in one model, especially one that will/can die so easily.

At 2250 (where the list will likely next go) i will have another Lord slot and it becomes a No-brainer alongside the beastlord.

Oh and once again thanks for the great ideas.