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jkenealy
12-08-2007, 05:35
Hi all, I just started Orcs and Goblins, and Fantasy for that matter. I bought Gorbad Ironclaw because a client wanted me to paint it. The deal fell through and I ended up with a kick ass model, both in looks and stats. I have a few questions. (I dont have the rulebook yet so bere with me)

Can I take an all Orc army, (no gobbos)? If yes is this a stupid idea?

I am looking to make a 1000 point army to begin with, can I use Gorbad? In
40k most heroes have a points limit (eg. Azreal can only play in armies over 2000pts) Is this a good choice?

And last, what would be a good starting point. I dont want to get a huge box set, because I like to take my time and slowly build up an army?

Doubly last, I dont know the points values, so is this close to 1000 pts, and is it good?

Gorbad Ironclaw

16 Orc Boyz

16 Orc Boyz

10 Black Orcs

5 Orc Boar Boyz

Orc Boar Chariot


So, thats it. So sorry for asking so much in one post, but I am making the big trek to GW in two days, and want to know what to get. Thanks!
-John

lilljonas
12-08-2007, 06:10
You need to have 2000 points to get a Lord slot, and I'm sure Gorbad is a Lord. So no, you can probably not field him. You can use the model as a generic hero, though.

All Orcs is indeed a functioning army, and since the basic orc boys improved in the new book, it also seems to be pretty popular.

Good starting point would be to get a bunch of Orc Boyz. You'll need plenty of those anyway. They will probably form your backbone. 16 sounds small, even at 1000 points I'd take at least 20. Orcs are cheap and good for their points but they don't have an impressive leadership stat, so getting more troopers would help you if from suffering from outnumbering or panic tests.

Talis
12-08-2007, 06:14
Hey John, welcome to Warhammer. Orcs are a great army (One of the emblematic races of fantasy, without a doubt.)

You won't be able to use Gorbad in a game of less than 2000 points because he is a lord character (in orc speak that's a warboss) -- you're allowed one lord starting at 2000, and one more at 3000 points, and so on.

But you should definitely use the Gorbad figure as a big boss on boar, which would likely be your general in a 1000 point game (you have three character slots for lesser heroes at 1000 points, one of which becomes your general).


I would reccomend upping the orc blocks to 20 (which gives you four ranks of five, the maximum rank bonus.) The best number is probably more like 25 orc boyz per regiment, giving you a few casualties before you lose rank bonuses in combat, which make a big difference.

A small regiment of black orcs will probably work well in 1000 pt games.

Personally, I would also get savage orc boar boys instead of orc boar boys, but you might want to read up on the rules first. Basically savage orcs get "frenzy," which makes it so they have to charge things if they can (a big drawback) but they get two attacks rather than one, and (the real difference) their boar gets an extra attack, and boars are very nasty at strength 5 if you get the charge. They are also immune to psychology while frenzied... The other side of this argument is that normal boar boys, while way less deadly, aren't out of control and so are a better unit to put your orc general in -- he may be able to make up the extra kills needed to break units.

Savage orc boar boys are great through, once you get the hang of them... they just shatter things, and you get to roll lots of dice....


All together that list should work out to 1000, particularly if you make the boar boys savage boar boy biguns -- an upgrade that costs a lot but makes them kind of an "oh S**t" unit.

Alternatively you may find yourself wanting some shooting, but you'll figure that out for yourself.

I would definitely reccomend buying the books and even trying to get them to walk you through a game in the store. In particular you want to figure out about which one you prefer: Orc boyz with two choppas or Orc Boyz with choppa and shield. These are the two best options and different players prefer different approches. I have one block of each in my army.

Hope that helps, have fun with the orcs.

Talis

lilljonas
12-08-2007, 06:18
And see if you can get to watch someone playing a game or a couple of games with an orc army. You'll pick up the rules quicker, and you'll see how different units behaves in different situations.

jkenealy
12-08-2007, 06:24
Wow, thank you lilljonas and Talis, your posts helped a lot. So I can use Gorbad as a "counts as" model for a orc warboss on boar?

And for a revised list, is this what you had in mind Talis?

Gorbad Ironclaw

25 Orc Boyz
with 2 Choppas

25 Orc Boyz
with Choppa and Shield

20 Black Orcs

5 Savage Orc Boar Boyz

IS this close to 1000pts?

And when I go in, I will ask if I could see a game. Thanks a lot!
-John

crouchingotter
12-08-2007, 15:51
An all Orc army is certainly possible but you have a few downsides.

The main one is panic. If a unit of Orcs panics an it is close enough to another unit of Orcs, it will cause panic in those too. This could lead to lots of tough greenskins running away.

You also have no fast cavalry. Fast cavalry is great. REALLY great.

You also have no artillery. Granted, O&G artilery isn't brilliant, but it can be amazing when it works.

The new armybook really seems geared towards a mixed Orc & Goblin force. Night Goblins are great. They get nets and fanatics where are really fun. You can have Squig Hoppers and Squig Herders. Big Bosses on Giant Cave Squigs... and you can also have Skarsnik & Gobbla.

Regular goblins aren't bad but they aren't that good when you use them as standard infantry. They cost about the same as Night Goblins have higher leadership but no fancy stuff like nets or fanatics. What they do have is Wolf Riders. These things are frickin awesome. Get a few units of 5 or 6. Stick a musician with them and then harrass the enemy, run away, rally, harrass, run away, rally, harrass....etc. Loads of fun.

Forest Goblins. Also frickin awesome. They use spiders instead of wolves. They're a tad slower but ignore difficult terrain. Harras, run away, rally...oh what's that? I've caused you to charge into a wood? Isn't that a shame? ;)

Rock Lobbers, Doom Divers and Spear Chukkas are all worth a try. Spear Chukkas are dirt cheap and can be effective. I say can be. They like to miss...

Oh and remember panicing? If Any goblins run past your Orcs screaming "run for yer livez!!!". The Orcs will carry on smashing heads. Put some goblins between your Orc units and the domino effect of Panic can be stopped short. Very useful.

Oh and your list. I would put Gorbad (who is playing the part of a lowley Big Boss) in one of those Orc units. So you'll only need 23 Orcs for one of em because Big Boss on Boar will take up the space of 2 Orcses. It's just that when characters are out on their own, they tend to get shot at.

I wouldn't put him with the Savage Orcs because he'll become subject to Frenzy and you don't really want your General being out of control.

Hope this helps.

- John.

winter has ended
12-08-2007, 15:58
erm gorbad cant join a unit of orcs as he is mounted and they arnt i thought

lilljonas
12-08-2007, 16:34
erm gorbad cant join a unit of orcs as he is mounted and they arnt i thought

A mounted hero can indeed join a foot unit, and it's even more of a tempting choise in 7th as they removed the main disadvantages of being mounted in a foot unit. It's even easier with Orcs than most armies as they rank up perfectly with a mounted leader, since they have the bigger 25mm bases.

jkenealy
12-08-2007, 17:17
Thanks a lot Crouchingotter, I guess I will take a look at some night goblins after all. They sound rather good. And what are the upsides to putting the boss with the boyz? What are the downsides? Thanks!
-John

winter has ended
12-08-2007, 17:22
normal orcs are good to go with boyz as they dont get shot at then, savage orcs are best in a frenzy unit for back up, but black orcs always put them in a black orc unit or no unit, ause if you fail animosity ouch they hurt

druchii7
12-08-2007, 18:27
one rgeat option is to take savage orcs, which won't panic. however they're too expensive as for loosing them by enemy fire or let the enemy's fast cav obligate you to charge, so you shoul put snoltings as a screen in front of them. in fact, you can use snoltings as a screen for common orcs too. I always do it.

in addition, snoltings can be a "bridge unit" for your fanatics, putting them 15 cm (~6 inches) in front of them. when enemy charges the snoltings he'll stop very close to them. you kill your snoltnigs, but fanatics will go one more inch and hit the enemy unit!!

winter has ended
12-08-2007, 18:35
hmm great idea, but the problem i come across with it is that enemy shooty units tend to be on hills so see over

crouchingotter
13-08-2007, 00:18
Thanks a lot Crouchingotter, I guess I will take a look at some night goblins after all. They sound rather good. And what are the upsides to putting the boss with the boyz? What are the downsides? Thanks!
-John
Okay..... first of all....

Personally I would lean towards Black Orc Warbosses and Big Bosses. Sorry to disagree (and I STRONGLY disagree) with Winter but Black Orc Characters are paractically designed to go in Orc Boyz units. It means that your hard-hitting Orcs don't pansey about doing nothing when they should be charging forward to bash sum 'eds. Sure, if you roll a 1 for Animosity you're going to take some hits and probably some wounds to your unit of Boyz. It's not going to be that bad though if you're taking units of 25.

What's better? A couple of dead Orcs in a unit that can get on with killing some humies or the entire unit being stood still for a turn doing nothing and possibly getting charged? I know what my preference is :D

Upsides of putting your Big Boss in a unit of Boyz? Well for one, it means he cannot be singled out in the shooting phase. If he's out on his own and not part of a unit, any Empire or Dwarf opponent is going to aim their cannons right at him and kill him. This is entirely possible in 7th Edition unlike the old days where you could not target single characters that were within 6" of a friendly unit.

Another upside is when you call your WAAAGH! Your General's unit automatically surges forward. What better to back him up that a big block of Boyz?

Downside? He loses a bit of movement because he has to move at the same pace as the Orcs on foot. Big wow.

At the end of the day, you'll have to do a lot of figuring things out for yourself. This is just what I have found to work for me so far. My 2000pt armies will pretty much always have a Black Orc Warboss on a boar as the general. He'll be in a unit of 23 Orc Boyz with full command.

I'll also take a Black Orc Big Boss on Boar as my Battle Standard Bearer. I find Boars to be a no brainer for Black Orc characters. Give em heavy armour, a shield and a boar and you have yourself a very tough character with a 2+ save. The BSB will get a 3+ because he can't carry the banner and use a shield at the same time. Still damn good for Orcs to have a save like that.

And before I go. Black Orc units. If there was ever a unit that you didn't need to include a character in, it's this one. They automatically pass Animosity tests. They're already tough as nails and have decent leadership. If you're gonna use em, let them work on their own. They're big boyz who don't need their hands held into battle :D

And on that note, I will sleep.

Hope this all makes sense to you!

jkenealy
13-08-2007, 01:48
It does, thank you very, very much. You have been a lot of help! Thanks!
-John

mooze
14-08-2007, 00:54
If you want to add some fast cav and gobbos, ebay is an option as there are usually people splitting up the "Battle for Skull Pass" box set. You can generally get a unit of gobbos, a unit of gobbos with bows, and some spider riders all at one fell swoop, cheaply. I play orcs (and a few other armies) and I agree with crouchingotter that black orc heroes are perfect for orc boyz units. I also agree that 20 is about the minimum size for boyz units (with the possible exception of 500 point lists).20 boyz with full command and shields is only 150 points, 20 boyz with spear and shield, full comm.=170, 20 boyz with full comm. and two choppas is 160. I like the two choppa option as I am used to it (a great deal of my boyz are the old ones from the orcs/brettonian box set purchased on ebay and often still available on ebay). I also like arrer boys in units of 10. The can shoot or fight and make great shield units. although a lot of players don't like them.The new army book has made all orc boyz, both arrer and normal, cheaper. In my opinion, orc boyz are some of the best core troops in the game.
This is also a very useful site for the wearing of the green:
http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/index.php.
Lots of good stuff here.Good Luck Gork bless,Waughhhh!!!!

Urgat
14-08-2007, 11:03
My 2000pt armies will pretty much always have a Black Orc Warboss on a boar as the general.

I'm doing that too, but I'm actually rethinking it, for I've found myself missing having a great weapon more than once...