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WraithKnight
24-08-2005, 21:40
I am currently in the middle of building an O&G army and I can't figure out if Boar Boyz are worth it. On one hand, they're the only heavy calvary O&G have, but they aren't very good (as far as I can tell) relative to other heavy cavalry. So, I'm asking other O&G generals out there, and those who've played against boar boyz, to give me your opinions about whether or not they're good and how they should be used.
Thanks!

Markconz
24-08-2005, 22:52
Why are they not as good as other heavy cavalry, different maybe, but I don't think they are worse? The boars get a S5 attack on the charge! What other mount gets that? Plus they are T4. I hate facing them...

mooze
24-08-2005, 22:59
they are excellent! The only problem is that they must compete for special slots against a lot of other good stuff.The boar ups your armor by 2 and hits at str 5 on the charge.If you dont wish to buy them, try them using other cav. as stand ins or pieces of paper if you must.Then you'll know whether you want them enough to buy them.

WraithKnight
25-08-2005, 00:23
It's not their staying power I'm worried about (although 3+ sv isn't great for heavy cav), it's their hitting power. Although they're good on the charge, after that all of their attacks (barring the Boss) are at S3, including Boars--not so hot.
But from the replies I've been getting, being good on the charge is enough...
Also, I forgot to ask in 1st post, what size unit would you recommend with Boar Boyz?

PANZERBUNNY
25-08-2005, 03:46
I'd say that wolf riders would be better as they can run around the flanks quickly and in strength.

*Shrugs*

Markconz
25-08-2005, 09:45
My mate uses 16 with a hero with that pigsticker magic thing (one that gives you extra attacks for enemy ranks)... last game I managed to charge the rear of the unit with 6 chosen chaos knights... my knights broke and were run down by the boarboyz :( Admittedly that is unlucky but still.... The only big drawback I see is the animosity, but then most O&G have that.

Lady's Champion
25-08-2005, 09:47
So many people with no avatar...

Anyway, I never take boar boyz, I prefer Wolf Ladz.

TheHood
25-08-2005, 10:01
I think that they are a unit that most Orc and goblin players would end up taking at some point, simply because they are an effective unit.

Sure, on paper, they don't look as tough or effective as Empire Knights, or Dragon Princes - but then again, look at the points difference!!! For 18 points, you are actually getting a good deal.

On the charge they are hard hitting, especially with a Boss and a character as part of the unit. A high toughness and a fairly good armour save (for Orcs) means that they tend to be able to stick around - especially against strength 3 troops.

I've had games where they have won me the battle (the game where a unit of 8 destroyed half of a Chaos army by their own springs to mind here) but equally, I have had games where they have failed 4 out of 6 animosity tests and done nothing all game.

Your best bet would be to try out a unit using proxies and see how the unit works for you.

Cheers

Alex
25-08-2005, 10:12
The biggest problem I see with them is that they take up a special slot.

I myself would probably use a small unit as a support unit. The other way to go is to make it big and try to run down the enemy as quickly as possible. Maybe savage ones would work for that, more attacks, but hard to control where they are going. The savage ones wouldn't be feasable as a flanking force.

Sinew
25-08-2005, 10:29
I don't think boar boyz make many people's tournament lists because they are a bit unreliable. Against shooty armies they tend to go down, and even though they're cheap for heavy cavalry they give up their points far more quickly than Orc infantry does.
Looking at them on paper there are several obvious problems; low movement means they can't go head to head with enemy cavalry that well as they can't guarantee the charge. Animosity usually doesn't help this either. Low WS means you lose a lot of their attacks to the fact that you almost never hit on 3's, even though these attacks are quite high strength. Average Ld means unless accompanied by a character they are vulnerable to psychology. All O&G are a bit prone to fear/terror, but most units (due to their size) will be more or less immune to panic which the boar boyz will fall prey to because you are unlikely to have more than about 12.
What is the upshot of all of this? You really need a character to lead your boar boyz, in order to up the kills and the leadership. Now, it's not such a bad place for an Orc fighting character as you'll increase your movement and add to your save. However I often find myself writing off any unit that NEEDS a character to be viable simply because I have other plans for my character slots.
What boar boyz do best IMO is take on enemy infantry. Add a character (Black Orcs work best as they can get heavy armour and quell animosity) with Porko's Pigstikka and try to cause as much mayhem as you can. 11 boar riders with full command, the war banner and either a Bigboss or a Warboss occasionally make it into my list. I deploy them 6 x 2 to maximise the number of attacks I get, and usually expect to lose the back rank before I make it into combat. It is not worth using them against enemy cavalry IMO, as it usually ends up in a stand off which neither player wants to break and get charged.
If you can put Sizzla's Shiny Baubles on the character you can often play quite a nice double-bluff, because my opponents know how much boar riders are worth and like to target them with magic. Once a spell has been reflected back they don't like to cast at the boar boyz so much, and can even find that they've mis-deployed their wizards who are out of range of the really juicy targets.
Bottom line? I don't often take them because I don't think they compete for the special slot but boar riders can be useful, especially if deployed at one end of an infantry battle line, and well supported by light cavalry and war machines. With the pigstikka they can break a unit of enemy infantry head on which is useful. Be prepared to take shooting/magic casualties and don't base your plan around them. Savage Orc boar riders get around some of the problems with normal boar riders, but they are rather erratic for my tastes.

Zilverug
25-08-2005, 12:56
Boar Boyz are one of the best heavy cavalry units around for their point cost: especially big uns hit hard with their spears and don't forget that each boar also adds a strength 5 attack (compared to a warhorse's strength 3 attack)!

Avian
25-08-2005, 13:02
Boar Boyz are not heavy cavalry and is actually best thought of as fast infantry.

If you want them to achive much, do what you do with your infantry: big units, preferably a fighty character and a magic banner.

The problems with Boar Boyz is that:
1) they aren't actually good at anything your core infantry has a problem with
2) taking them means you get less chariots / war machines / black orcs, which are good at the things your core infantry has problems with
3) the models cost quite a bit of money

Venomizer
25-08-2005, 14:32
I like boar boyz and as such never have a list that doesn't include at least a unit of them. I've found them to be effective in many a situation - there isn't alot in my experience that can stand up to the charge of boar boy big 'uns

even better is for 'ard boyz they are core which is very nice :)

Timber_Wolf
25-08-2005, 16:14
well, for sure, they´re worth it :)
and that for 3 reasons:

first of all, they sit on one of the best mounts any cavallery can have (exept the de and lizzard stuff maybe), S5 on charge is really nasty (and remember, the mounts are always better than the riders ^^).
second, with a nice big ´uns upgrade, the riders will have the same nice S5 on charge and also the important WS4 to hig basic stuff on 3+. furthermore, their T4 and 3+ save makes them really tough, even they lack the nice 1+ save from more "civilised" knights, but who cares ^^
and, third (the most important one), they are FUN and look damned cool :D
what´s funnier than a blood crazed orc on an even more crazed war-pig stomping over the field of battle, smashing into some infantery?^^

furthermore, they are quite cheap, pointswhise for the hella lot of S5 attacks they can dish out on charge, sure, they lack the real S6 knight hitting power, but in compare with bret core knights or even elven cavallery, i´d like them so much more ^^

Drakemaster
25-08-2005, 16:21
1) they aren't actually good at anything your core infantry has a problem with

While I agree with alot of what you're saying here, this is a little silly. They clearly are good at something your core infantry has a problem with... moving quickly across the battlefield and getting into combat as soon as possible. All O&G infantry, with M4, is going to take 3-4 turns to reach a static battleline, even without the enemy using march blocking. Boar boys can be there on turn 2.

Sinew
26-08-2005, 10:55
They clearly are good at something your core infantry has a problem with... moving quickly across the battlefield and getting into combat as soon as possible True, they give you speed, but I have found when I use them that even if boar boyz get there they don't usually have the power to punch through an enemy unit unsupported. Therefore I find that speed is mostly useful when the boar boyz are kept with your line and used to keep enemy units from flanking. However this means the enemy have more time to shoot them...

there isn't alot in my experience that can stand up to the charge of boar boy big 'uns I think a lot of players find it hard to justify taking two units of boar boyz just to upgrade one to Big Uns however tasty they may be. That's 2 special slots and a chunk of points, and I dunno about anyone else but I always find my special slots VERY contested in my O&G army.

Venomizer
26-08-2005, 11:09
I think a lot of players find it hard to justify taking two units of boar boyz just to upgrade one to Big Uns however tasty they may be. That's 2 special slots and a chunk of points, and I dunno about anyone else but I always find my special slots VERY contested in my O&G army.

True, I can see there are alot more appestising options for the special slots in a normal O&G list - this isn't much of an issue to me since I play an 'ard boyz list where boar boyz are core, as for points, yes they are pricey but they've saved and won games for me on many an occaision which more than makes up for the points

Avian
26-08-2005, 13:40
While I agree with alot of what you're saying here, this is a little silly. They clearly are good at something your core infantry has a problem with... moving quickly across the battlefield and getting into combat as soon as possible. All O&G infantry, with M4, is going to take 3-4 turns to reach a static battleline, even without the enemy using march blocking. Boar boys can be there on turn 2.
Why would you want a single unit running up the field all by it's lonesome?

In my experience, greenskin players generally send their wolf-powered units across the battlefield to take out enemy missile troops, while the rest of the army advances at orc pace. It works, and I don't believe the situation would be much improved with orc boar boyz.

I DO have boar boyz (15 regular ones, 10 plastic Big Un conversion and 5 savage ones), I just don't use them very often.

mnyama
31-08-2005, 20:06
the quantity of boar boyz depends on the roster-type of your army. if we are talking about 2000pts than it could be several variants. 12 boar boyz & 11 big'uns with lord/hero and many wolfriders + 4 wolf or 2 boar chariots. or it could be just 8-12 boar boyz as a support unit.