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GMMStudios
15-08-2007, 02:59
Hey all,

I did some searching and some readin, and I still have a few questions regarding an armored company. Okay more than a few...

1. What list is current? I know there are three. One from CA 2004, one that is in a WD, and another that is FW.

2. Is any form of AC tourney legal? Shame if not...

3. I dont really understand how the list I am looking at (the white dwarf version) works. I am reading that for each Command or Tank Ace I take, I get 0-2 other tanks. Does this mean that if I take an HQ tank, I get two more tanks as troop choices? Or that I get two choices of that exact same tank. For example, Demolisher HQ grants me two more tanks, or two more Demolishers and no others.

4. I have a couple Chimeras lying around. I have the bits to easily make them Hellhounds. What do you think would be best, the Armor, speed and gun of the hound, or the guns (plural) and goodies inside. Only thing I am worried about, is the question of what effect is one or two squads of guardsmen going to have in an army full of 300 pt. tanks.

5. Anyone have suggestions in general? I read through some of the lists in teh army list section, and most of them seem battlecannons tyle heavy, a couple of Demolishers, and a bassy. Im planning on getting a Vanquisher for the HQ.

Thanks all for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

Brandon

redbaron998
15-08-2007, 03:06
1. The FW if you are using FW rules or the AC list on teh US/UK website under IG

2. "Is This List Official?
This list was legal for the 2006 U.S. Grand Tournament Season. Whether it will be in the 2007 Tournament Season remains to be seen. If you wish to use this list in Rogue Trader or other Tournaments, we recommend you check with the tournament organizers first. Tournament legality aside, these are fun rules, and we hope players enjoy using them in games."


3. You pay for the Tank Commander or Ace, and can purchase up to 2 tanks in the trop list, each counting as one troop I believe since it say Size: 1 vehicle.

4. Most people dont like to in AC lists cause they dont want anything without AV 14 facing the enemy, but if you do have Stormtroopers inside vs a Armoured fist squad, almsot always better. Also a hellhound is a good bit cheaper so theres that to think of also.

5. The most practiced thought process is screw everything else and just get lots of Leman Russes, but thats up to you, I like having some Storm Troopers cause I just love them period...

GMMStudios
15-08-2007, 03:10
Ohhh...how the heck I did not see that download is beyond me...I've been back to the IG part of the site 100 times since I started my normal guard army...

Well thanks for shining the light and the suggestions!

Brandon

redbaron998
15-08-2007, 03:12
No prob, just do a search on the Tactics Board and I am sure youll find a AC Tactica, good luck and good tanking to ya

Finn
15-08-2007, 19:59
I play AC every now and then...Hellhounds are great. You may want to look into getting an Exterminator for a command or ace tank. Put both pintle weapons and heavy bolters on there, and you've got 16 BS 4 shots, 11 of them AP 4. Anybody without 3+ armor will wet their pants. If you field your list with doctrines and give that thing Ace Gunners (re-roll To Hit rolls of 1), you've got a 90% hit chance with each shot. I always field one of them and a Hellhound, and that about covers anti-infantry.

What AC tends to be bad at is killing other AV 14 stuff, though :(.

Bunnahabhain
15-08-2007, 23:28
For the 17,000th time....

" ...no vehicle can include more than one pintle mounted weapon."
Codex IG, Vehicle upgrade section.

What part of this do people not understand?!

JustTony
16-08-2007, 01:58
I play AC every now and then...Hellhounds are great. You may want to look into getting an Exterminator for a command or ace tank. Put both pintle weapons and heavy bolters on there, and you've got 16 BS 4 shots, 11 of them AP 4. Anybody without 3+ armor will wet their pants. If you field your list with doctrines and give that thing Ace Gunners (re-roll To Hit rolls of 1), you've got a 90% hit chance with each shot. I always field one of them and a Hellhound, and that about covers anti-infantry.

What AC tends to be bad at is killing other AV 14 stuff, though :(.

Not if you use a couple of Vanquishers. Using the FW list from IA 1 give one to the CO and 1 to a Commissar for BS 4 goodness. Str 8 plus 2d6 added to together hitting on a 3+ will blast anything but a Monolith. Take hull lascannons for Monoliths. It's tough to beat, unless you can get behind it.

Finn
16-08-2007, 07:46
....Forgive me for forgetting about one pintle weapon, heh :P.

And yes ,I use one Vanquisher...the things are too expensive to warrant taking more than one in a 'balanced' tournament list, however. You won't always be facing lots of AV14, so it's like paying an extra 100+ points for a tank you're going to use like a normal Leman against armies where you don't need the Vanquisher shell (and when do you ever need the extra range?).


[ EDIT ] - to be perfectly accurate, the AC codex does not limit pintle weapons. Unless there's been an update since I downloaded the rules from GW's site, it does not say 'no vehicle may have more than one pintle-mounted weapon' in its vehicle upgrade armoury. We can argue it either way, of course. The original IG codex does say that :P

Bunnahabhain
16-08-2007, 13:35
Actually, now I look at it, the one pintle weapon only line is missing from the Armoured battlegroup list too. It's just the codex that limits it. Typo or intentional, do we think?

I still think two pintle weapons is silly, looks ugly, and is inefficient points wise, on a normal sized tank- super heavies are a different matter- but if people want to use it, it does seem they have RaW on their side, so long as they're using an armoured company/battlegroup.

Finn
16-08-2007, 22:33
I don't know if it's a mistake or intentional. It could be intentional, I could see AC's using more anti-infantry weapons, as traditionally tank companies are vulnerable to troops. Remember that old rule about tanks not being able to move within 6" of enemy infantry unless there was friendly infantry around? Of course, that died with the lucky glancing hits rule, too.

In any case, the pintle weapon doesn't have to go on the tank's turret. I put a pintle stubber in a hull mount just beside the driver port on my Exterminator - it actually fits in rather nicely. The storm bolter goes on the turret...

Norminator
16-08-2007, 22:38
I'm also thinking of starting an armoured company for Apocalypse. With the wealth of tanks and lack of infantry however, are they still good fun to play with and against? I'm tempted just to get some armoured fist squads so that my opponent doesn't waste their anti infantry weapons and feel aggrieved.

Edit: Another quick question: the Forgeworld IG tank conversion kits (Forge World IMPERIAL GUARD TANKS (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/IMPERIAL_GUARD_TANKS.html)) mostly seem to have Mars Alpha hulls - do the conversion kits include the hull bits, or are they just poorly labelled?

Finn
17-08-2007, 00:23
If it says conversion kit, it means it's meant to go in addition to the GW plastic kit - so no, it does not include the hull.

Bunnahabhain
17-08-2007, 00:24
If you want the mars alpha hulls, you have to buy them as well as the turret. Either that, or you just convert them yourself.

For infantry in a Armoured Battlegroup, go with stormtroopers. The two special weapons and reasonable armour really help when you have less infantry than a death wing army.

Oh ,and you can take a Valkyrie for them....

Norminator
17-08-2007, 11:47
If it says conversion kit, it means it's meant to go in addition to the GW plastic kit - so no, it does not include the hull.

Yes, I realised that, it's just that both the conversion and complete kits are shown with Mars Alpha hulls - so I was wondering if they came with a hull conversion as well.

Easy E
17-08-2007, 13:30
Many people will tell you to load up on LR's. I am not one of those people. You want infantry in your list. There are times you will want to hold an objective someplace a tank can not go. Then you send in the grunts.

Also, don't get carried away with upgrades and doctrines. In an AC you have a small number of targets that can be nuetralized by one shot. You will want as many potential targets as possible on the board.

Scythe
17-08-2007, 13:46
Take hull lascannons for Monoliths.

Alternatively, you could use a Laser Destroyer or Demolisher against liths. Ordnance still gets its 'roll 2d6, pick highest' rule against it. 55% chance to penetrate and 20% chance to glance if you hit for both weapons. ;)

jfrazell
17-08-2007, 13:53
Many people will tell you to load up on LR's. I am not one of those people. You want infantry in your list. There are times you will want to hold an objective someplace a tank can not go. Then you send in the grunts.

Also, don't get carried away with upgrades and doctrines. In an AC you have a small number of targets that can be nuetralized by one shot. You will want as many potential targets as possible on the board.

Agreed. Some of the best AC lists utilize ST's and hellhounds to flesh out the force.

1&2: answered

3. I dont really understand how the list I am looking at (the white dwarf version) works. I am reading that for each Command or Tank Ace I take, I get 0-2 other tanks. Does this mean that if I take an HQ tank, I get two more tanks as troop choices? Or that I get two choices of that exact same tank. For example, Demolisher HQ grants me two more tanks, or two more Demolishers and no others.
****It means that, in order to obtain two TROOPS choices (two tanks of any type under the TROOPS category) you need an army commander. For more tanks you need tank aces. I would have those anyway. You are not limited to the same type. IE my army commander comes in a vanquisher for those hard to reach places (BS4 long range melta gun equivalent means never having to say you’re sorry). I usually kit stock Leman Russ MBTs with the ace gunner doctrine for ordnance re-rolls-making them as lethal in V4 as they were in V3.

4. I have a couple Chimeras lying around. I have the bits to easily make them Hellhounds. What do you think would be best, the Armor, speed and gun of the hound, or the guns (plural) and goodies inside. Only thing I am worried about, is the question of what effect is one or two squads of guardsmen going to have in an army full of 300 pt. tanks.
*****Mock up some heavy flamer turrents and have the option for both! For troops I’d lean more towards ST’s than armored fists. The ST’s can deliver a real punch to enemy units that get through the gunline.

5. Anyone have suggestions in general? I read through some of the lists in teh army list section, and most of them seem battlecannons tyle heavy, a couple of Demolishers, and a bassy. Im planning on getting a Vanquisher for the HQ.
****This is a playtest to personal preference situation. I play AC just to get two BS4 Vanquishers, and support them with two Lemans and a demolisher, with two lascannon sentinels, 2 ST squads and chimeras, and a hellhound. Its my personal style (a “lite” AC list). You may have your own preferences. Just remember, if playing against one, while looking out for all their tanks, pay some attention to the lascannon sentinels sneaking up on your massively expensive heavy support…

Spacker
17-08-2007, 14:42
Don't forget the handy Exterminator - if you face any armies with infantry, this is a potentially devastating tank with up to 14 shots on the move at BS4, 2 of which have re-rolls and are capable of taking out light armour too. Just load one up with heavy bolters all around and a pintle heavy stubber, and let loose on the enemy.

I'd also suggest not leaving tanks stationary if possible - automatic hits when assaulted are devastating, esp if the attacking unit has meltabombs. Even moving them a fraction of an inch will at least mean the enemy has to roll to hit, potentially reducing the number of damaging attacks. Just don't forget that if you use the AT rounds doctrine then you have to remain stationary to fire ...

Finn
19-08-2007, 04:02
Don't forget the pintle storm bolter on the Exterminator too!

And before you tell me that IG tanks can only have one pintle weapon, I advise you to find exactly where it says that in the AC codex :D

Spacker
19-08-2007, 07:56
While the list might not explicitly state you can't have both, I have my tanks set up to be used for AC, AB and Codex: IG lists. Plus I'm pretty sure RaI is that you use the same restrictions as Codex: IG, but if you can get away with it where you play then do so. Just remember that other clubs, and tournaments, may have different rules that prevent you from doing so.

alexh
19-08-2007, 08:23
Don't forget the pintle storm bolter on the Exterminator too!

And before you tell me that IG tanks can only have one pintle weapon, I advise you to find exactly where it says that in the AC codex :D

Just because it dosen't say you can't, does not automatically mean you can. The pintle mount is on a hatch so logically, there can only be one. The new baneblade looks like it has two hatches in the main turret so this could be an exception to the rule though. As an aside, in codex space marines, the rhino is equiped with a storm bolter as standard and you can add a pintle mount - why is there only one in the kit:confused::confused:

Scythe
19-08-2007, 11:43
A pintle mounted storm bolter is wasted points anyway. It is not worth the 10 points by far. A stubber is ok, it matches the other extreminator weapons range and has 3 shots, but a storm bolter is just... less than spectacular.