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View Full Version : How to Branch out from BfSP?



Fideru
15-08-2007, 04:35
For Orcs and Goblins, I'm wondering how to branch out from the contents of BfSP. I asked at the not so local GW and what I got for an answer was Giants, which I found bloody preposterous and then the next answer was Orcs, which was just as helpful because it didn't tell me how much, which kind, and how to use em.

Because I use a list of 2 NG Big Bosses, and a Shaman, with 2 units of 20 NG w/spear and shields, with Musician and Standard Bearer for each unit. The NG bowmen are simply used to keep the Shaman alive. And lastly the Troll. I keep him vanilla to save points.

Thank you in advance!

Fideru

Khorghan
15-08-2007, 05:04
Maybe a box of orcs? It depends if you want a all goblin army because if you want to use orcs you should probably put some orc heros in and put the NG models into the units as champions or something. id say but some chariots or more trolls to fit in your unit.

pcgamer72
15-08-2007, 05:41
I would recommend just a box of regular Orcs. This way, you can experiment with them and see if you want to expand into more Orcs in your army. If you don't like them, then you could try adding in some Bolt Throwers or Squigs.

Halelel
15-08-2007, 08:46
Check around on ebay for the plastic Orcs from 6th edition box set (that's what I did), you get some orc warriors, orc archers, and a chariot.

However, when playing O&G, you'll probably end up scrapping both NG bosses, the shaman is alright though.

I can't remember the name of the orc website (da-warpath) or something to that effect, but you'll find plenty of greenskin players there who should be able to point you in the right direction as this question probably gets asked a fair amount I would imagine.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
15-08-2007, 09:53
i would say you need to bulk up the ng units a little so a box of night goblins orget some more bfsp ones will do - by getting the box set you get the nets, also fanatics for the night goblins

various people have stated in the past thet single troll units are great for adding a punch to attacks and they dont cause panic tests for dying (us3)

as for orcs, not really sure as i play night goblins but ive heard savage orcs with 2 hand weapons are very good, add in the army standard with the banner which gives +1 attack (one use only) and you can get 4 attacks on the charge with choppa bonuses - i think you can have them made as big uns too

chariots are good - either sort for taking out pesky warmachines exspecially the wolf ones with the 18" charge

rock lobbers for taking out large infantry blocks which might threaten you
same as bolt throwers

squigs are hillarious exspecially when they lose combat amongst lightly armoures foes

Urgat
15-08-2007, 10:13
However, when playing O&G, you'll probably end up scrapping both NG bosses, the shaman is alright though.

Actually, the shaman is mandatory, for the simple reason orc cannot take the staff of sneaky stealin, and the staff is mandatory, unless you're playing against dwarfs :p

What I think you should buy, for now: a few fanatics (I'd say 6, but put them randomly between the units, in a different fashion at each battle, just to **** off the enemy), and a handful of squig hoppers.
That's cheap (well, relatively speaking), it expands a bit on the (for now) all night gob army (spiders aside), and are all useful additions. And you'll find the squig hoppers add quite some punch (take 7, that's the best size imho, against most units it's the maximum number that can be in base to base contact and therefore attack, and you need the maximum amount of deads on the charge with them - and they're also missile magnets, so screen them well, 5 of the spiders would be perfect for that actually, if they can keep up with the sometimes ludicrous speed of the things). I'd also buy an additional box of night gobs to keep 3 units, but increase their numbers to 25 or 30 (some people argue that fewer units is better because you get less animosity rolls to do, my take is that with more units, if one fails the test, you're not as bothered as when you only have two of them :p)

That's a short time project that should be fun and efficient.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
15-08-2007, 10:47
That staff is not mandatory, though it is good. Here's what I would do:

Grab another box of Night Gobbos and make a unit of 36 and a unit of 24 (or 35 and 25) with netters, grab a couple fanatics, then start working on getting some orcs in. 2 Boxes of Orcs (do they come in 20 now? or is it still 19?) can get you a unit of 25 Orcs with Shields and 15 Orcs with 2 Choppas. This way your army has 2 solid anvil units, a bunch of support units, and a decent counter-charge unit. The 15 boyz with 2 choppas can be made into big uns although I feel they are not worth the 4 point upgrade...but they will hit harder. Finally one might wish to invest in some chariots. Chariots are awesome.

Just my 2 teef.

Fideru
15-08-2007, 17:30
Are the Goblin or the Orc chariot worth it? I'm going to guess the Orc one is stronger, but the Goblin one is more maneuverable.

And if it helps, I play against High Elves and Ogres most often, followed by Skaven.

The High Elf player has the battalion plus 2 mages. He hasn't won a game yet :s. The Ogre player is better at playing, and has the battalion as well, just no leadbelchers, he turned them into bulls.

When I've proxied fanatics, it has been extremely helpful because of the psychological impact they've had. What is generally the best amount of them in a Night Goblin unit. And from what I've seen, I should beef the NG units to 30?

Btw, are Black Orcs worth it? Everytime I've proxied them, its been a unit of 10 in a 1000 point game, and they get slaughtered by Ogres. I'd flank a unit of bulls, and they'd die pretty badly. Given, I've never tried them against Elves, but just a ponder.

Cheers!

Highborn
16-08-2007, 02:00
Black Orcs really should hold their own against bulls if they get the charge into the flank. They're one of the units I hate tackling, cos they're hard as nails. Elves should be particularly worried, with low S and T.

Fanatics are definitely the best way to go, and more night goblins to bulk those units out past 20 (ridiculously easy to kill 5 gobbos with shooting and cause panic, ridiculously hard for said gobbos to pass their panic test).

Your first line pretty well sums up why most people I know don't buy from GW (that, and lack of anything resembling a discount).

505
16-08-2007, 05:09
another box of night gobbos. units of 20 just don't cut it.
as statted fanatics. and I also recomend some wolf riders.

I was fortunate enough to get a BFSP a 6th edition army box and a 6th edition battalion box for under $200 about a 2 weeks ago(I then got some snotlings and netters and more spider riders and fanatics..now I got a all grey (some pewter) 3000 point army.) I got very lucky in that find.

Cypher, the Emperor
16-08-2007, 05:31
I'd actually buy another BFSP box. You get some good stuff, the least of which is cheaper spider riders. After that, get some orcs and some artillery.

Urgat
16-08-2007, 11:52
Are the Goblin or the Orc chariot worth it? I'm going to guess the Orc one is stronger, but the Goblin one is more maneuverable.

And if it helps, I play against High Elves and Ogres most often, followed by Skaven.

The High Elf player has the battalion plus 2 mages. He hasn't won a game yet :s. The Ogre player is better at playing, and has the battalion as well, just no leadbelchers, he turned them into bulls.

When I've proxied fanatics, it has been extremely helpful because of the psychological impact they've had. What is generally the best amount of them in a Night Goblin unit. And from what I've seen, I should beef the NG units to 30?

Btw, are Black Orcs worth it? Everytime I've proxied them, its been a unit of 10 in a 1000 point game, and they get slaughtered by Ogres. I'd flank a unit of bulls, and they'd die pretty badly. Given, I've never tried them against Elves, but just a ponder.

Cheers!

Well, I used to swear by the wolf charriot, but now I prefer the orc one; T4 on the wolf charriot makes it a suicide thing, while the orc charriot can actually survive a "failed" charge. And you're facing two armies that will cause fear to your wolf charriot, at least with the orc one you will have to test only with ogres, and on Ld7, not 6.

And I still say the staff is compulsory, especially against 2 high elfe mages :p

For fanatics, depends what you want to do with them. For max damage purpose, well, it's 3 a unit, of course. I usually take one or two now, because I only want them to stop charges and generaly mess up the enemy's lines (they happily mess up mines as well but, heh, animosity's started the work before the fanatics, usually). Really depends on your luck, I've never been too lucky with fanatics myself (excepted against bretonnians, they seem to hate them :p ).

Black orcs are not a good choice under 2000 points. You need a 20 strong unit: they will get skewered from a distance by the elves, and charged by the ogres, who will hit and wound on 4+, with no armour saves to rely on, and I've experimented yesterday with how efficient ogre charges are :p

I believe bolt throw to be a good choice against ogres, too, and my trolls have always proved successful against a unit of chaos ogres with heavy weapons I often face. And they can belch on the elves, even if it's not as effective, it's just cheer fun to vomit on them pointy ears :D

Fideru
16-08-2007, 13:14
So;

Fanatics
Orc Chariot
Orcs

Is a Orc Big Boss better than a Blorc Big Boss? Because I was thinking of getting the general box, and making a orc big boss with a bsb on the boar, and making a blorc big boss on foot, so armed to da teef wouldn't be lost, and so that the bsb can have a save.

Good idea? No?

Btw, thanks all. If we were all at a pub, I'd buy you each a round.

Urgat
16-08-2007, 13:39
Borc is better coz he gets heavy armour. You can always sacrify a couple goblins to pay the extra :p

Goldenwolf
19-08-2007, 05:16
I don't like Blorc leaders because they kill my own troops.

NG's need to be at LEAST 30 strong. Fanatics and Nets are also good.

I like mixing O&G, but if you want to go all Gobbos then go for it.

Orcs are pretty good troops in 25-30 model blocks w/shields.

HOWEVER, if you go gobbo then more Spider and Wolf riders can be fun. I have seen some success with a 25 model unit of wolf riders, screened by 2 5 model wolf rider units.

Holy Crap! Manticores!
19-08-2007, 10:53
'Tillery Gitz.

Goblin-manned warmachines (with an Orc Bully to keep order somewhat restored )fit in well. They give you a bit of 'tillery gitz to pound the enemy from afar until the boyz hit enemy lines.

Aside from that, I'd go with a little redundancy in what you like from BfSP Gobbos. If you like the Shamans, get a few more. The magic, combined with the 'tillery gitz, might just pummel the opposition into submission before you hit their lines... a favorable place, even for Gobbos.

Tuch
19-08-2007, 15:53
I don't like Blorc leaders because they kill my own troops.

My son was of the same mind on this issue until he realized that if he simply adds and extra rank (to 24 + general) it didn't hurt so much. Also, the troops killed from quell animosity (even on a high roll) is rarely as critical as not being alowed to move the unit and the tactile damage that results as such.