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JoV
16-08-2007, 07:49
Hiya

Firstly, sorry if this is a topic thats been repeated ad nauseum but its an idea thats been running round in my head and thought i would see what others think.

Basically, the addition of roleplaying elements into WHFB through a supplement, like Apocolypse for 40K. To me this would be a major jump forward and a hell of a lot of fun. Reading through the responses of fantasy gamers to Apocolypse people seem to be hoping for a move into a skirmish/Mordheim type setting in the future rather than bigger battles just for the sake of it. Id like to see those ides moved over into Fantasy proper, not just in a skirmish level game.

To me the biggest drawback of WHFB is that each battle is ultimately meaningless. Yeah you have a good time, maybe learn a few things or two about the game but nothing really changes (i can understand some people might think this is the games biggest strength as it gives a even ground to test their skills, which is why i think it would be a good idea as an optional supplement). Roleplaying would give meaning to what happens in the game, beyond that game itself. My biggest influence of thinking here is Rome: Total War, where for those of you who have played it will know that your general picks up certain characteristics based on what happens on the battlefield (ie he ran away, made a clever infantry manouver, won with the odds against him etc).

How this sort of thing could be introduced without unbalacing things, i dunno, but the idea is that character progression doesnt mean getting better (like levelling up in a RPG) but developing unique characteristics that reflect how you play, which may be a good thing or maybe not. Being a particulary good infantry commander would give you a bonus there, but a penalty to your cavalry for example. If you were to add something like that to a Mighty Empires campaign, well, i'd be in nerdy Fantasy heaven :D

So what do people think? dumb idea? too close to Warhammer's roots (ie a move backwards not forwards)?

And again, sorry if this idea has been done to death ;)

WarSmith7
16-08-2007, 08:18
The Lustria campaign book is just what your looking for. The campaign guide gives you a great set of rules on how to give your units and heros vet skills and such for surviving various battles.

JoV
16-08-2007, 09:17
Really? ok cool, will definately have a look. Had no idea such a thing existed. Was this a worldwide campaign and do these rules get much of a run out nowdays?

Brother Loki
16-08-2007, 09:36
The Generals Compendium was also a great book with lots of info on campaigns.

Bregalad
16-08-2007, 10:32
Also have a look at the WH Fantasy Roleplaying game. Its books will give you ideas for individualising your army (e.g. Skaven, Brets, Empire, Dwarves,...).

King Thurgun
16-08-2007, 14:47
My friends and I are cooking up a campaign which will combine regular battles using the mighty empires map (not so much the rules... or lack thereof), and also, smaller skirmishes using some homebrew skirmish rules. Basically you use the WHFB rules, except add a couple special abilities that you characters can buy for an increase in their points. You can pretty much make these be/cost whatever you want and go from there. Here's a couple i cooked up.

Feats- 10 pt.s each
Power Attack- -1 to hit, +2 Str
Flurry- -1 to hit, +1 A
Combat Expertise- -1 A, Enemy is at -1 to hit you
Disarm- -2A, if you successfully hit, your opponent loses all weapon bonuses. He may make an initiative check next round to retrieve his weapon.

And so on. Giving your characters special abilities out of the book is fun too: for instance, i wanted my battle hardened Slayer character to cause fear, so, i looked up the cost of the Mark of Nurgle in the chaos book and just said it cost as many points to make him cause fear.

One note i would make is to only use these feats and other advanced combat options in skirmishes, and possibly challenges in bigger games. Otherwise standard Fantasy battles can get pretty bogged down with all the rules.

mistformsquirrel
16-08-2007, 14:48
My friends and I are cooking up a campaign which will combine regular battles using the mighty empires map (not so much the rules... or lack thereof), and also, smaller skirmishes using some homebrew skirmish rules. Basically you use the WHFB rules, except add a couple special abilities that you characters can buy for an increase in their points. You can pretty much make these be/cost whatever you want and go from there. Here's a couple i cooked up.

Feats- 10 pt.s each
Power Attack- -1 to hit, +2 Str
Flurry- -1 to hit, +1 A
Combat Expertise- -1 A, Enemy is at -1 to hit you
Disarm- -2A, if you successfully hit, your opponent loses all weapon bonuses. He may make an initiative check next round to retrieve his weapon.

And so on. Giving your characters special abilities out of the book is fun too: for instance, i wanted my battle hardened Slayer character to cause fear, so, i looked up the cost of the Mark of Nurgle in the chaos book and just said it cost as many points to make him cause fear.

One note i would make is to only use these feats and other advanced combat options in skirmishes, and possibly challenges in bigger games. Otherwise standard Fantasy battles can get pretty bogged down with all the rules.

I like that <,< 1 just because its a good idea, 2 - I'm a big D&D nerd.

So WIN!

sigur
16-08-2007, 15:05
Oh, look, it's D&D...:rolleyes:

I suggest having a look at 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition of WHFB if you have access to those books. Might be helpful as well.

DarthSte
16-08-2007, 15:21
I would have thought that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay would have been the logical place to look. I think it is published by Black Flame...?

King Thurgun
16-08-2007, 15:21
Oh, look, it's D&D...:rolleyes:

It was intentionally based off of D&D. The WHFP system doesn't really give room for a lot of variety, especially the current edition. What do you do if you want to use high magic? Or play a waywatcher? Or a Witch Elf? Because WFRP is more low fantasy than anything, your options for playing a character in your army that is, say, a dwarf lord, or High Elf Archmage, or ect. who is leading your army in a campaign are extremely limited.

These rules aren't sophisticated, but they're fast and fun, gives you a chance to watch all your favorite characters in your army go kick ass and take names (and treasure) without worrying about whether you need to min/max them out or not.

WarbossKurgan
16-08-2007, 15:25
Really? ok cool, will definately have a look. Had no idea such a thing existed. Was this a worldwide campaign and do these rules get much of a run out nowdays?

The Lustria campaign book (and the "Conquest of The New World" website that supported it, which seems to have gone now) were not part of a joined-up worldwide campaign, they just showed how groups of players could run there own campaigns, set in the jungles of Lustria.

Lustria Homepage (http://uk.games-workshop.com/lustria/) :D

Canadian_Khan
16-08-2007, 21:01
My firends and I have created a campaign and adding some things from de General Compendium in it

Some rules have been made : You can,t use the same Hero who as been killed ( 1d6 when he get's off the table... on a 6... he's dead, on other... badly wounded.. )... and others too

In our Warhammer World, Kislev is now attacked by beasts, Ogres are slaughtering Lizzies in a conquest for LAND...

Nothing compared to what is really happening in the real Warhammer World

Briscoe
16-08-2007, 23:23
For me, injecting elements of RP into your games doesn't require a book or any campaign. Simply play your army like your general would. For example, with my orcs if I am given a choice between charging or not charging into a combat I'm not too confident in winning, I charge like any orc worth his green skin would. Other similar moves might be dwarves rarely fleeing from enemies voluntarily, particularly against foes like skaven or goblins.

Depending upon your theme and interpretation of your army's background it can make for more interesting games if you're willing to step back from making the "correct" competitive moves to make the ones that fit your force.

prince_dios
17-08-2007, 02:00
Campaigns tend to amount to "You're betting the pants off your opponents? Here, have some free bonuses as a reward!" :/

JoV
17-08-2007, 02:27
Yeah, thats the sort of idea im trying to avoid. It shouldnt be about your characters becoming better (and unbalancing the game), but becoming, er, for want of a better word, more characterfull, ie there would be positives and negatives to winning crushing victories all the time.

There was an article in WD ages ago about the night before the battle and random effects you could roll up depending on how your general spent that night. Something like that would be good, only dealing with the battle itself and being able to be used continously from one battle to the next.

Im a bit meh about using house rules tbh, they tend to get complicated, over powered and if somewhat tries to join in halfway thru a campaign or leaves, it unbalances things a lot. That why im hoping someone in GW could come up with a supplement that does all the hard stuff allready, plus leaves a rule set that is universaly accepted. Still the fact that this Lustria book is out there hints this is something their looking at :)

godking
17-08-2007, 10:02
has anyone played path to glory?