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View Full Version : Are Chaplains the SM HQ No-brainer?



Corax
16-08-2007, 12:46
Can anyone think of a good reason to field anything other than a Chaplain (probably with a Jump Pack and attached to an Assault Squad) in a SM army?
The Litanies of Hate and the fact that he comes with an Inv. Save and a PW and makes his unit Fearless mean he is insanely good value.

I've been wracking my brains to come up with something, and the best I could manage was a Librarian so that you could use the Psychic Hood. What's the point of a Commander? You're going to make your Sgt.s Vets anyway so you can give them Power Fists, so the Ld 10 is irrelevant.

Does anyone actually use something other than Chaplains? If so, what is it and what configuration do you use?

As for myself, I'm currently using a MoS w/Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs. So, yeah, I'm boring too. :o

tau_caste
16-08-2007, 12:49
yeah Chaplains rule! i have 3 as it is! (one for each of my armies but still) i use them with the attached characters so i get all the chewy goodness!!! but personally i think theres nothing finer than seeing a techmarine mow down the enemy from the lead!!!

Steel_Legion
16-08-2007, 13:07
Somee downsides of them though is the cost and the fact masters can make every unit Ld10, not just the one (albiet it is fearless...) :D Mind you they are very cool

Davachido
16-08-2007, 13:09
If you are going to have something with combat in mind for your army then yes the chaplain is a no brainer. Even for gunline armies, you just give the chappy a plasma pistol and your set. The only reason people will field a Master/Captain is because he is cheaper then all other options. Captain + PP = 75 points. We used to have a red shirt who during 3rd ed always bought the 30 point HQ without upgrading him and sent him to die.

Otherwise the only other 'viable' option is the librarian w/ Vortex of doom, it can deter things of most armies away from where librarian is for a gunline army. You also have the pyschic hood which is increasingly become useful.

pookie
16-08-2007, 13:26
id use a Castellan/Marshal ( im a BT Player ) along side a Chappy, purley for the LD bonus he gives my units, this helps when im targeting units that are hiding behind closer units, but need to be stopped before they make a mess of my units. ( i have very few heavy weps, and need to ensure there shots are not wasted blasting away at a unit im goner mash in CC anyway )

although i agree a Chappy is a 'no brainer' there is times and situations where the LD bonus is worth it.

Formarion
16-08-2007, 13:29
I take a Librarian in my smaller lists, as Chaplains don't really fit into my overall theme of my list right now. My only Chaplain model has a Jump Pack, but I gave all my assault marines to a friend when I started playing IG.

That and I am going for a fully robed force right now, and robed Assault Marines look silly ^^

ehlijen
16-08-2007, 14:13
Assuming you mean the 4th ed regular marine dex, yes, the chaplain is the best allrounder.
Captains/masters are dirt cheap though if that's a concern for you, and librarians have their lovely force weapons and hoods, both becoming more and more necessary in a world of escalating silly psychic powers and un-ID-able MCs.
And of course the techmarine, for when you need even more attacks and cheaper bargain devestators, ie servitors.

Bulwyf
16-08-2007, 14:29
As a BT player I sometimes leave the Chaplain at home so that I can use the Marshal's higher Ld for the entire army. Also I like to vary my lists between games so that playing my Templars dosen't become repetative.


-Will

King Thurgun
16-08-2007, 14:33
For blood angels one would think that the obvious choice would be a chaplain, in fact it used to be that you absolutely had to take one, but nowadays, a flying Librarian in Terminator armor with +d3 attacks is only about 25 points more and devastating in combat. Also, a terminator armored character chilling with an assault squad, flying around with them, confuses and frightens many opponents... :D

dcikgyurt
16-08-2007, 14:38
Well, considering that you can get 3 HQ options in one FOC then why not take all three? Oh, and I'm not giving the hint on how to get your three HQs either, I'll let you read your codex again to see where the misprint is (and no, they haven't FAQed it).

Chaplain Dionitas
16-08-2007, 14:40
Chaplain in a bike squad is pretty nasty too. Can't beat that T5 and litanies of hate on an assault

Thoth62
16-08-2007, 14:40
Can anyone think of a good reason to field anything other than a Chaplain (probably with a Jump Pack and attached to an Assault Squad) in a SM army?
The Litanies of Hate and the fact that he comes with an Inv. Save and a PW and makes his unit Fearless mean he is insanely good value.

I've been wracking my brains to come up with something, and the best I could manage was a Librarian so that you could use the Psychic Hood. What's the point of a Commander? You're going to make your Sgt.s Vets anyway so you can give them Power Fists, so the Ld 10 is irrelevant.

Does anyone actually use something other than Chaplains? If so, what is it and what configuration do you use?

As for myself, I'm currently using a MoS w/Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs. So, yeah, I'm boring too. :o

The point of taking a commander (which I don't) would be to make your army Ld 10. The reason I say this is because not everyone, especially around here, always takes veteran sergeants. I don't, and the 2 others in my gaming group don't either, unless its a unit like an assault squad that's guarunteed to see combat.

I do in fact take a Chappie with a JP in an assault squad though. It is, for me at least, a no brainer.

Edit: dcikgyurt, it's not a misprint, at least as far as I can tell. You can take a commander, and then add a chaplain and a librarian to his command squad. It specifically states that this still counts as a single HQ choice.

BajsArne
16-08-2007, 14:40
Seems the master would be a better and better buy the bigger the battle is. For 750 points, getting ld10 all over the board might not be that great but when it's 2000 it's nice. Also some of us don´t use veteran sergeant for all squads because we play against other opponents than marines, and we don´t neccesarily need powerfists everywhere. And even if we would, we still wouldn´t have them in the devastator squads who occassionally appreciate having ld10 for targetting.

Flying terminator? Is that some new BA thing?

Davachido
16-08-2007, 14:43
Flying terminator? Is that some new BA thing?

Yes, Wings of Sanguinius, pyschic power: self cast, model counts as having a jump pack, lasts for one turn, may be used on models in terminator armor.

dcikgyurt
16-08-2007, 14:45
Flying terminator? Is that some new BA thing?

It's a new BA psychic power.

Oh, and the most chessy combo I've seen is a chaplin with LOH in a terminator assault squad all armed with lightning claws (including the chaplin) charging out of a landraider crusader. Re-roll to hit and wound with power weapons, it soon pays for itself, despite the high cost.

mistformsquirrel
16-08-2007, 14:47
BA Librarians have a Psychic Power called Wings of Sanguinus which lets the move as Jump Pack troops no matter what they're using. (IE: Termie Armor); or as a Jet Bike if they're riding a bike.

The downside is that they can't take Jump Packs, and of course, you had to use your psychic power just to keep up with your squad, so no force weapon.

Caligula
16-08-2007, 14:51
Pretty much as most others have said, a Chaplain is an excellent(argueably the best) choice for a combat character, particularly when given a Jump Pack and accompanied by some Assault Marines.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a no-brainer choice, however, as both the Commander and Librarian are also very, very good.

Democratus
16-08-2007, 14:57
With the new Chaos codex on the near horizon, I think the Librarian may jump to the top of the list. If for no other reason than to have a counter against Lash of Submission.

Caligula
16-08-2007, 15:17
Good point, Democratus. As a Chaos player, I initially resisted the siren song of the Lash...but have since given in, and so will many, many followers of the Dark Gods out there. So yes, I can see the Librarian possibly becoming a very popular choice soon enough...

El_Phen
16-08-2007, 15:24
REAL men use three wound, servo-harness, Techmarines and have dreadnought bodyguards instead of the "Ooh, look at me. I'm really angry and can fly like tinkerbell" chaplains.

Stella Cadente
16-08-2007, 15:26
I have pretty much never used a Chaplain in my DA army, instead I just have my master with lightning claws and halo, and Grand master Librarian, I've just never had much want to use a chaplain, even in bog standard marines I rarely if ever have

The Dark One
16-08-2007, 15:26
We used to have a red shirt who during 3rd ed always bought the 30 point HQ without upgrading him and sent him to die.


i used to do that aswell

personally i prefer my captain/master (excepted for my blood angle assault marine army, which has a chaplain to lead it) the ld bonus is just to good to turn down

Davachido
16-08-2007, 15:30
REAL men use three wound, servo-harness, Techmarines and have dreadnought bodyguards instead of the "Ooh, look at me. I'm really angry and can fly like tinkerbell" chaplains.

or a Master with terminator armour and no weapons, running out into the middle of the field holding a sign saying: Come on hit me!!

BladeWalker
16-08-2007, 15:34
I use Scouts as my Troops choices and the extra 2 points of Ld that the Master gives me for them no matter where he is really help to keep them shooting those sniper rifles instead of running off (and firing at the proper targets when needed). Were it not for that I would be using the Chaplain too.

NotElite
16-08-2007, 15:34
With the new Chaos codex on the near horizon, I think the Librarian may jump to the top of the list. If for no other reason than to have a counter against Lash of Submission.

Quoted for truth. A LD 10 Libby will prevent Lash 41.6% of the time.

I'm also suprised folks have forgotten the Fear/Fury Terminator Librarian with double assault cannon retinue. Fear is very nice vs. Tau, IG, Orks...

That being said, Libriarians are generally my second HQ choice. I live and die by the Chappy with Jetpack. I'l even detatch him from a squad in order to have him handle a seperate threat from his assult squad buddies.

Wolflord Havoc
16-08-2007, 15:39
Are Chaplains the SM HQ No-brainer?

No they are only good for leading a single unit - and they are very good at this - what with making the unit fearless, rerolling to hit dice when the charge etc.

But the Captain is much better IMO - raising the entire army to LD 10 which is bloody useful for not only basic morale test etc but also for things like rolling for target selection.

Generally least useful is the Librarian although forcing farseers and other pyskers to roll off against him every time they try to use a power is quite funny and must be quite annoying to them.

King Thurgun
16-08-2007, 15:40
It's a new BA psychic power.

Oh, and the most chessy combo I've seen is a chaplin with LOH in a terminator assault squad all armed with lightning claws (including the chaplin) charging out of a landraider crusader. Re-roll to hit and wound with power weapons, it soon pays for itself, despite the high cost.

How is that cheesy? Blow up their land raider and they're screwed. Its powerful certainly, probably the best MEQ killing close combat combo that you can ever get ever (sans Incubi), but its also a whole lot of eggs in one basket.


REAL men use three wound, servo-harness, Techmarines and have dreadnought bodyguards instead of the "Ooh, look at me. I'm really angry and can fly like tinkerbell" chaplains.

You win. A toast to you sir.

El_Phen
16-08-2007, 15:45
or a Master with terminator armour and no weapons, running out into the middle of the field holding a sign saying: Come on hit me!!

That there is a conversion BEGGING to happen.


You win. A toast to you sir.

Rocky Horror show-style? ;)

King Thurgun
16-08-2007, 16:11
Rocky Horror show-style? ;)

*Throws toast*
I have the Mark of Tzeentch btw, so that toast is AP3. Can you deal with THAT?

EmperorEternalXIX
16-08-2007, 18:27
Short answer: Yes.

As a DA player I'm not particularly happy about it, though. I always want to use the Force Commander (and yes, I still call it that, because I love DoW and think it sounds cooler, I know it's a Master or what have you).

Chaplains are cool but I don't think of them as leaders for a whole battle detachment, I think of them as front line leaders who command the front per higher orders and planning.

The thing is, in every codex I've seen so far, the Chaplain is a better option than the Chapter Master/Force Commander. Less points for more stuff, every time. I understand leadership 10 for the whole army is a value in and of itself but I am space marines; as DA some squads are fearless, and whichever ones aren't may have a chaplain attached, have a standard nearby, or can rely on the LD9 of their sergeants (which is forced in DA for pretty much everyone).

I wish there was some cooler equipment I could give the master, that I couldn't the chaplain, to make him more interesting/useful for his points.

Deafwing
16-08-2007, 22:25
Well, I usually use a Librarian just because the model of 'Zeke was the main reason my marines are Dark Angels...(plus having a psychic hood and force weapon is never a bad thing).

With my Deathwing though, I usually have had a cheapo Captain or Master with the Sword of Secrets and a storm bolter...

I've hardly used the Chaplain really; in terminator armour or otherwise. Yeah, he's pretty good in assault and stuff, but playing Dark Angels, I really don't want to be in assault in the first place!

Deafwing.

AngryAngel
17-08-2007, 06:36
I think they all have their uses..and really there isn't a no brainer option in HQ's for space marines.

zealot!
17-08-2007, 06:44
i use a deathwatch squad for my hq :]

Drogmir
17-08-2007, 06:44
I never really used Liberians because I always brought a GK Inquisitor instead.

It's a weird alternative yeah, but it's certainly cheaper.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to use Captain Sicarius (Captain w/2 lighting claws) instead of my chaplains (termie and jumper)

sebster
17-08-2007, 07:29
If you want to spend the points to make your HQ unit a strong melee option, the chaplain makes a lot of sense. But that’s a big if, there are a lot of effective Marine builds based around static or mobile shooting, and a chaplain wouldn’t be too useful in those armies.

El_Phen
17-08-2007, 09:39
*Throws toast*
I have the Mark of Tzeentch btw, so that toast is AP3. Can you deal with THAT?

A full servo-harness is artificer armour with some power fists and guns bolted on, so, yeah. ;)

Plus any other nastiness may well result in hiding behind the dreadnoughts and fixing them when they go 'bang'. Strangely enough, the one time I DID take a chaplain with a jump pack and assault marine bodyguard he, and the squad (including power fist sergeant with plasma pistol) where beaten, over two or three rounds of combat, by Tau Fire Warriors. Without an Ethereal. I cursed the dice gods loudly that day. My opponent said, several times in fact, "Dude, I'm SO sorry."

Bum.

MadDogMike
18-08-2007, 04:02
It's a new BA psychic power.

Oh, and the most chessy combo I've seen is a chaplin with LOH in a terminator assault squad all armed with lightning claws (including the chaplin) charging out of a landraider crusader. Re-roll to hit and wound with power weapons, it soon pays for itself, despite the high cost.

Unless the lucky SOB you're playing Immobilizes your LR crusader on turn 1, forcing your terminators and chaplain to slowly trek out under hideous amounts of fire which your dice suck at rolling saves for (and of course the LR itself is out of range of anything important). Then again I have NEVER won first turn and every game I play in goes kinda light on terrain (this was in a ******* Cities of Death game!), so that sort of thing happens to me a lot :rolleyes:.

lordbeefy
18-08-2007, 08:10
I have three chaplains in my collection, and field them dependant on how fluffy I am feeling....

Jump pack, plasma pistol and assault squad for cc.

Cassius attached to a squad of nid hunters for fluff.

On a bike attached to a bike squadron for hells angels fun.

I do still like to field a captain though, purely because I like the thought of the captain leading his men in the field tactically, while the chaplain is a 'get into the thick of it' type of character.

Maybe not the most effective use of points, but I play more for fun.

Brother_Falco
18-08-2007, 11:01
I run a Chaplain with the 8th pretending to be Lemartes because there's no reason not to in a BA list. I do -have- a Captain for them, but he is indeed sadly pointless in said list.
The 3rd who use BT rules have a Captain and a Chaplain in a command squad and rarely hit the table separately if only because there's little point to stuffing a LRC full of people and not adding a chappie to make them extra-wacksome. I could probably dispense with the Captain here, but I really dislike the idea of the even-crazier-than-usual BT chaplains calling the shots.
Outside of these two companies/army builds, who gets fielded is entirely down to whim and points.
I don't agree that Chaplains are no-brainers however, what they are is cheap (comparatively) and thus the easiest to fit into a given army.

Alessander
18-08-2007, 19:55
If you have a close combat based squad, a Chaplain becomes a no-brainer. I rarely field Captains/Masters, because I like the Libs and Chaplains better. Librarians have been cut down since Codex Space Marines (Angel chapter Libs are nowhere as deadly).

The only time i happen to take advantage of the Commander's leadership rule is when I field Shrike, and that's just icing on the cake. I generally couldn't be bothered, and generally Shrike doesn't last more than 2 turns anyway (I like to play him Kamikaze style).

Sparda
18-08-2007, 23:28
Personally, I like using all three charecters in a command squad. Plus an inquisiter and techmarine in full harness. Ues, thats five Independent Charecters in a squad:D:evilgrin::cheese:! I then have a ten man command squad armed with Bp and CCW with all three specialists in a LRC. Sure, Its a lot of points, but is extremally cool. Plus, you get to have Five individual Charecters with Power weapons!