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View Full Version : Let talk about Force Weapons.



MrBigMr
18-08-2007, 19:04
I understand that the psycher get tuned to the weapon, but is the weapon somehow special from other weapons? Could a psycher turn a weapon into a force weapon rather than having some hard to do intrument constructed via techs to work as a force weapon? In other words could a psycher grab a stick and use it as a force weapon or are the weapons specifically made to work as a force weapon and nothing else?

TheSonOfAbbadon
18-08-2007, 19:28
I would have thought that force weapons are specifically made to channel the psyker's energy, otherwise psykers wouldn't need a massive, high-tech halberd to kill people, they could just use a stick.

MrBigMr
18-08-2007, 19:39
I would have thought that force weapons are specifically made to channel the psyker's energy, otherwise psykers wouldn't need a massive, high-tech halberd to kill people, they could just use a stick.
Only Grey Knights have halberts. Force Weapons can be in any form (IG psychers do have sticks as force weapons), but I'm interested on whether the weapons have to be certainly made for that work or can they use other weapons for it. Maybe not straight out of the box, but in time turn a normal or power weapon into a force weapon.

BlackLegion
18-08-2007, 20:11
Force Weapons are special crafted weapons inlaid with psychic-sensitive circuits.
An ordinary weapon would still be an ordinary weapon even in a psykers hands.

Kage2020
18-08-2007, 20:14
I would say that a Force "thing" - rod, weapon or whatever - must be created. Originally the creation of such technologies was beyond humanity but, seemingly, not any more.

It also seems possible to be able to forge a sorcerous 'force weapon,' but there we go.

Kage

Maximus_Prime
18-08-2007, 20:46
While we're on the subject of Force Weps, I'm gonna go ahead and throw out a question. What exactly happens when the psyker does his whole '1 hit kill' attack? Is it the subtle kind of psy-kill where some crazy junk happens to his vital systems and kills him, or is it the freakishly gory kind, I.E he cuts the victim, then uses his psychic powers to tear the wound further open until the victim is split in two? Or is it up to our Imagination?

MrBigMr
18-08-2007, 20:56
I heard somewhere that it opens a tear in real space and throws the target into the Warp.

Kegluneq
18-08-2007, 23:12
It's just a highly focused psychic attack - tearing apart the victim's mind and body in one go. (The influence of the Psyker's will can also be seen in the power weapon effect.) Obviously, the risk is the pressure of the attack can be released either way.

Biomass Denial
19-08-2007, 01:55
The way it was explained to me was phsyker run's up to hive tyrant/bloodthirster ect, hits his big toe with his stick and the bad guy then proceeds to explode.

Arcanus
19-08-2007, 02:06
The way it was explained to me was phsyker run's up to hive tyrant/bloodthirster ect, hits his big toe with his stick and the bad guy then proceeds to explode.

That'd would be interesting to see. An inquisitor hitting a bloodthrister and it's head just exploding. I think Kegluneq's awnser is the most correct so far beacause That would explain why it wouldn't work on all things with armor values. Unlike, MrBigMr's anwser because, if the victim was just thrown into the warp them you could probably do it to anything (buildings, tanks, monoliths, attack bikes, etc.)

deathwing_marine
19-08-2007, 02:13
It pretty much scrambles your brain and destroys your mind. Plus, you've been impaled by a large pointy weapon.

Halfpast_Yellow
19-08-2007, 02:15
There is a Dawn of War interpretation, with the Librarian fighting the Eldar Avatar sequence.

IIRC,
In the final part of the sequence, the Librarian uses his mind to pull his force weapon from the ground to his hand, then belts the Avatar with it, who turns black and disintegrates into into large pieces.

It doesn't show it very well, but it's at about minute 2 of this video. Librarian hits the Avatar with a psychic attack, grabs his force weapon and fries him.

Linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs)

Arcanus
19-08-2007, 03:13
There is a Dawn of War interpretation, with the Librarian fighting the Eldar Avatar sequence.

IIRC,
In the final part of the sequence, the Librarian uses his mind to pull his force weapon from the ground to his hand, then belts the Avatar with it, who turns black and disintegrates into into large pieces.

It doesn't show it very well, but it's at about minute 2 of this video. Librarian hits the Avatar with a psychic attack, grabs his force weapon and fries him.

Linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs)

I was expecting it to be a cut scene:( but, it was pretty good anyway. The Avatar burst into flames and then disintegrates into ashes.

Born Again
19-08-2007, 07:39
Force weapons do have to be made specially made. Otherwise, all psychers in the game would have force weapons, as they could just grab anything lying around.
As to the effects, I'm sure it's up to the psycher in question and how he wishes to direct his energy.
That clip looked cool, but yeah... was expecting a cut scene too.

Escaflowne_Z
19-08-2007, 07:56
A force weapon's special circuitry does gather and collect a psyker's energy. In 2nd edition, a psyker could keep charging his weapon for several turns, each time increasing the potency of the weapon's effects. Effects of this seem to be glowing circuitry channels, and also some psychic atmospheric effects (ie, the blade could get cold).

As for how they work in the fluff...the BL has a little info. The account I remember has a librarian hack his force sword into a Chaos marine. As the charged weapon passes through the marine, it discharges with a kind of spitting noise, severing the marine into some bloody chunks.

Kegluneq
19-08-2007, 08:01
In one of the Eisenhorn books, there is a complex description of how a Rune Staff (a type of Force weapon) is made - a variety of complex alloys are required, to channel psychic energy. I would imagine that any 'Force' weapon needs these elements to work. Eisenhorn's sword is another Force weapon apparently, but it's method of manufacture isn't clearly stated. The metal was folded 'over 600 times', and we can only assumes that the necessary pschic elements were placed between the layers.

MrBigMr
19-08-2007, 08:22
Unlike, MrBigMr's anwser because, if the victim was just thrown into the warp them you could probably do it to anything (buildings, tanks, monoliths, attack bikes, etc.)
It's not an answer, it's just something I've read somewhere. I don't even like the desciption of it. And why aren't vehicles affected by a force weapon? If the weapon can blow apart a battlesuit, a necron, an Avatar, etc. Why are vehicles unaffected?


Force weapons do have to be made specially made. Otherwise, all psychers in the game would have force weapons, as they could just grab anything lying around.
Not all psychers have force weapons, which would mean the psycher would need training in the use of it and the ability to channel his mind through it. I mean, all nemesis force weapons are the same, but a Grand-Master is a bit more familiar with his than a lowly grey knight.

And I don't mean a psycher would grab and baseball bat and whack the corruption out of a Chaos champion, but more on the lines of using a power weapon or such and in time coming one with it, turning it into a weapon that can channel his powers.

There are plenty of Librarian/Inquisitor examples, but what about Chaos? Lets not forget that Chaos sorcerers got Force Weapons in the new codex. Couldn't they find some way other than having an army of slaves work on the weapon for a year and one day?

monkey child
19-08-2007, 08:30
In one of the Eisenhorn books, there is a complex description of how a Rune Staff (a type of Force weapon) is made - a variety of complex alloys are required, to channel psychic energy. I would imagine that any 'Force' weapon needs these elements to work. Eisenhorn's sword is another Force weapon apparently, but it's method of manufacture isn't clearly stated. The metal was folded 'over 600 times', and we can only assumes that the necessary pschic elements were placed between the layers.

The sword is rather interesting, as from some of its descriptions it almost borders on a daemonic weapon ie. It hungers for battle, has a mind of it own, and on many occassions Eisenhorn has to stop it from attacking his companions.

It always struck me as less a force weapon per say more like a psychic power sword. He always feeds it his "Will" to charge it up which in turn (along with other nearby psychic activity) makes it vibrate, then it makes cut people in to bite size segments.

IMO a force weapon will be used and have a different effect for each user, some might use it to zap, some to make a psychic club, where as others may use it to make a sword/axe/halberd killier.

FarseerMatt
19-08-2007, 11:49
IMO a force weapon will be used and have a different effect for each user, some might use it to zap, some to make a psychic club, where as others may use it to make a sword/axe/halberd killier.

Exactly. For example Witchblades (Eldar equivalent of force weapons) cause their targets to incinerate when struck.

Kegluneq
19-08-2007, 13:17
The sword is rather interesting, as from some of its descriptions it almost borders on a daemonic weapon ie. It hungers for battle, has a mind of it own, and on many occassions Eisenhorn has to stop it from attacking his companions.
He also refers to it like a person, and can use Deflect Shot with it (a power sword/daemon weapon only skill in Inquisitor). So yeah, very odd.

Arcanus
19-08-2007, 18:09
It's not an answer, it's just something I've read somewhere. I don't even like the desciption of it. And why aren't vehicles affected by a force weapon? If the weapon can blow apart a battlesuit, a necron, an Avatar, etc. Why are vehicles unaffected?

The rules state that "a force weapon has no special effect against targets that don't have wouunds eg, Dreadnoughts,vehicles, etc." That's why what you've read is incorrect because if the object was sent into the Warp you could argue that vehicles could be sent into the Warp also, which is the flaw in the said anwser.

Kage2020
19-08-2007, 20:29
Doesn't this show little more than the abstraction of the wargame in representing the 40k universe?

Kage

MrBigMr
19-08-2007, 20:37
The rules state that "a force weapon has no special effect against targets that don't have wouunds eg, Dreadnoughts,vehicles, etc."
"Why is it like this?"
"'Cuz GW sez so."

I'm wondering how a Wraithlord and Dreadnought would differ in a 'real' situation. Why is it that a force weapon can fry a Destroyer, but not a Cyclops (the small IG suicide bomb tank)? Both are machines, both are about the same size (about). Jet one gets fried, one doesn't.


That's why what you've read is incorrect because if the object was sent into the Warp you could argue that vehicles could be sent into the Warp also, which is the flaw in the said anwser.
Vehicles are bigger? Look, I never said I believed in it or anything like that. I think it's a load of ballistic skill myself as well. I just stated as a joke, not assuming people take it that seriously. It was at wiki or something.


But anyways by the topic would a Chaos psycher, sorcerer or some person of high skillzors need a specificly build weapon to flail enemies, or could he turn a more or less normal weapon into a force weapon with his powers? Couldn't a sorcerer take a power weapon and enhance it with spells or something like that? Channel his powers via the forcefield that gives the gun the ability to cut stuff.

If a rogue psycher doesn't get his hand on a real force weapon, couldn't he fabricate an alternative one for personal use? Or something.

nazrag
19-08-2007, 22:12
if you read the souldrinkers-books, there are several occurences of force weapons in effetct, most notably a force stick and a force axe..quite fun :)

LexxBomb
19-08-2007, 22:56
ive always imagined it as beeing like using mind war on the victim. like when the Emperor destroyed Horus

Bookwrak
19-08-2007, 23:02
The Eisenhorn novels have the creation and use of a force weapon by an Inquisitor. Yes, it must be specially crafted to channel the psyker's power, making into the equivalent of a 10 million volt taser that delivers the charge straight to your brain when it hits you.

MrBigMr
19-08-2007, 23:15
But anything on Chaos variants? If sorcery and psychic powers are different, why nor force weapons of Chaos and Imperium? It's a bit like how Necron and Imperial power weapons are different. Don't Necron power weapons phase out of existence to get past defences, while Imperial ones use force fields to weaken the material.

So while an Imperial force weapon would work one way, should all such weapons work the same exact way? That's propably my main query on the subject.

Gorbad Ironclaw
20-08-2007, 04:25
Depends on how you look at it really. They all channel psychic energy into a deadly attack, the process you use the create them are likely different, I imagine many chaos variants are actually gifts from there patron diety, where as Eldar ones are Wraithbone constructs etc.

At the basic level they all amplyfy it's users power, and lets you direct psychic attacks through it, I imagine that's why they are so deadly, if you can launch a psychic attack from inside the victims own body it have next to no defence against it.

Iracundus
20-08-2007, 13:04
The Eldar and human force weapons, prior to GW's attempt to differentiate the races by making racial specific rules in 3rd ed., worked the same way. They had helical crystalline circuits that could store psychic power, with the Eldar one having greater storage capacity than the human ones. They could then discharge this power to boost the Strength and armor penetrating capabilities of hits with the weapon, explaining why something like a sword or spear could pierce tank armor. Since it was boosting the Strength of the weapon directly, it had equal effect on normal infantry or vehicles. In 3rd ed., because of the rules differentiation for the sake of difference, this weird dichotomy of Eldar weapons carving up vehicles while human ones can inflict instant death occurred. Fluffwise though they are supposed to work similarly. If people can still find the old 2nd Ed. Eldar Codex, there is a picture of an Eldar Warlock by Mark Gibbons showing a Warlock with Witchblade and psychic energy coursing along it in a helical pattern.

Necrons don't have power weapons as understood and used by the Eldar and Imperium. The Warscythe is a phase weapon and bypasses fields and armor by phasing its cutting blade out. The Necron Staff of Light is described in the Necron Codex as having a fractal edge equivalent to a power weapon in effect. That is a big difference from actually being a power weapon itself. It boils down to the Necrons making a really really sharp blade that cuts as well as a powered blade without it being truly powered.

Arcanus
20-08-2007, 17:23
But anything on Chaos variants? If sorcery and psychic powers are different, why nor force weapons of Chaos and Imperium? It's a bit like how Necron and Imperial power weapons are different. Don't Necron power weapons phase out of existence to get past defences, while Imperial ones use force fields to weaken the material.

So while an Imperial force weapon would work one way, should all such weapons work the same exact way? That's propably my main query on the subject.

I agree with that, if the Imperium has a force weapon then, Chaos should have an equivilant weapon. Maybe it has a special blessing from a Chaos God that makes it incinerate enemies it strikes.

Norse Warrior
21-08-2007, 07:41
Chaos do have the equivilant weapon...Typhos, the nurgle warlord has the manreaper...it is a deamon weapon and a force weapon...

Vishok
21-08-2007, 08:10
Nemesis Force Weapons are NOT all the same. In fact, each one is made specifically suited to the wielder. A force weapon not only requires special manufacturing techniques (Chaos Force Weapons included) but also special training.

MrBigMr
21-08-2007, 08:38
Nemesis Force Weapons are NOT all the same. In fact, each one is made specifically suited to the wielder.
But they don't make 'trooper varian', 'terminator variant', 'grand master variant', etc. of them. When the wielder becomes more skilled, so does his namesis become more destructive. Right, or have I been fed BS once again?

Brother Siccarius
21-08-2007, 08:49
I was expecting it to be a cut scene:( but, it was pretty good anyway. The Avatar burst into flames and then disintegrates into ashes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0WnodcSgBk4

I like to think of a force weapon as having a somewhat similar effect on the enemy.