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S0ule55
19-08-2007, 07:41
I've been talking with my regular gaming group, and I want some other opinions on this list. I'm seriously considering taking this to a tournament in a couple of weeks, but they keep telling me that my chances of walking out alive are slim to none...of course I've heard this before, so I figured I'd put this up and see what other people think.

2000 Pts

1 Venerable Lord Kroak @ 1225 Pts
General; Large Target; Magic Resistance (2)
1 Amulet of Itza
1 Ceremonial Mace of Malachite
1 Golden Death Mask
1 Standard of the Sacred Serpent & Glyph of Potee

1 Skink Priest @ 140 Pts
Scouts; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Aquatic
1 Cloak of Feathers

1 Skink Priest @ 150 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Aquatic
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Dispel Scroll

12 Skink Skirmishers @ 84 Pts
Scouts; Hand Weapon; Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Skirmishers

12 Skink Skirmishers @ 84 Pts
Scouts; Hand Weapon; Javelin & Shield; Aquatic; Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers @ 70 Pts
Scouts; Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Skirmishers

10 Skink Skirmishers @ 70 Pts
Scouts; Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Skirmishers

3 Kroxigor @ 174 Pts
Great Weapon; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin

Total Roster Cost: 1997

Crube
19-08-2007, 07:51
I dont know if Cheesy os the right word, but it's certainly going to be hard to beat.

A lot of magic, a decent amount of shooting, althhough get in CC and you could be in trouble, especially with the skinks. Lord Kroak, with no unit to hide in will be very ulnerable to artillery and warmachines.

I suppose it would be considered quite cheesy though.

BattleofLund
19-08-2007, 07:58
For those of us who haven't the Lizard book at hand or memorized; could you post a quick run-through of the characters' abilities and junk?

I get that it's super-magic and skirmish-y, but is this list bullet/cannon ball proof? Will the enemy spontaneously combust turn one? Will it stun the opponent with bad frog jokes?

athamas
19-08-2007, 08:00
something like khorne will have a field day with this list,

Malorian
19-08-2007, 08:09
Well you are VERY weak combat wise.

I faced Kroak and he didn't do so well. His big earthquake spell is easily stopped by a dispell scroll and he takes a HUGE chunk out of your army. So by the time you get passed the scrolls their cav is all over you. Hell, you don't even have saurus to protect him!

Trust me, make it a little more balanced and you'll do much better.

logan054
19-08-2007, 13:21
I have to agree this army isnt the greatest, i think beastmen would have a field day with this army

Bazzal
20-08-2007, 19:14
even though lord croak is over priced he is really good, unless your tournament requires a special character, loose croak, take 2nd gen slann, BSB and warbanner, with 26 saurus warriors, 2 spawnings. total 610 for slann, 392 for the saurus, leavin you 200 odd points for more krox or terradons, mite even get a stegadon. this way your army is still cheesy enough but has more kick and you still have a chance of drawing even if your slann is picked out

forgottenlor
20-08-2007, 21:11
I think the list could be effective, and I think neither khorne nor beastmen would have a field day with it. Khorne units have frenzy, and you have small fasr skink units. If you want, you can pull them all over the battle field, lead them into forstest, swamps, and other places, they would rather not be. I'm also not sure how big your magic pool is, but I am sure its more than even Khorne players' ban pools would be. If Kroak has the Lore of shadow he could be teleporting all over the field and don't think beast men or khorne units are going to have an easy time catching him or all the movement 6 skinks, especially if there is a lot of terrain.
If its an official tournament your opponents are going to hate you and give you low army composition and fairness scores, because to be successful, you will be avoiding combat and blasting them, which will be frustrating for them. People generally don't like to play against shooty, highly mobile lists, which avoid combat.

melgorth
20-08-2007, 21:16
The Vampire Counts would have a great time against this list. I've played Croak before and i ran him down with 10 zombies!!:D:D:D IMO you realy should have him in a unit of saurus or something but this list could do well against a lot of armies. I think you should swap him for a second gen slann who is nearly as effective and allows you more points for other cool stuff:)

blurred
21-08-2007, 09:57
Cheesy how exactly? Wood elves and beastmen will win this list almost by default and any army with fast troops, shooting or heavily armoured troops will bring you loads of trouble. Now that I think of it I really can't see this army winning that much against any decent player. Sure it has powerful magic, but not that powerful. Care to enlighten me?

radbug
21-08-2007, 12:01
I would not worry against shooting. It takes statistically 16.5 cannonballs hitting him to deal the 8 wounds needed to kill him, counting in his 2+ ward save (2+ to wound, 2+ wsave and 3.5 wounds on average per shot). Normal shooting is no threat what so ever (needs 432 wood elf shots at short range). The only big problem is close combat against blocks which will break and run him down. Keep kroak out of combat and let the enemy fire upon him.

Still not that funny to keep that many points in one single model with move 4. I don't think you will win much, cause your magic phase cant win you every game.

/R

theunwantedbeing
21-08-2007, 12:21
It doesnt look that scary really.

The difficult bit in killing slann tends to be the stubbon ld9/10 cold blooded temple guard around him.
Without that immovability the slann is really rather vulnerable.

To beat that army all you do is go for kroak.
The skinks wont get in the way much,seeing as they are incapable of stopping anything really.
The kroxigor are a tiny tiny threat due to them being 1 unit.

Kroak will lose horribly in combat by any ranked unit.
Doesnt really matter if your cold blooded and ld9 if you get beaten by 5pts in combat.

Assuming you can keep kroak out of combat you'll have a chance to win with that list,but otherwise your going to need a lot of luck.

MarcoPollo
22-08-2007, 03:16
Very cheesy. Any army with special characters is cheesy enough. Added the skink 40K technique and that too adds to the cheese. I am surprised that a delicatessen list like this doesn't fit in some temple guard for good measure.

Also, lists that rely on magic tend to take away the fun of the game in my opinion.

RipFlag
22-08-2007, 04:16
I would personally hate to play this, but i like the cheese value.
So if you drop lord craok, and take a slann, give him the Charm of the Jaguar Warrior, which gives the model on foot movement 9 (i think you can give this to slanns...) that way you are going to be very hard to catch, than give him some kick as ward save like the Amulet of Itzl which makes you safer from shooting.

For extra cheese, maybe some chameleon skinks or taradons, if not for sure some more kroxigors, which rock in combo with the skinks!

Von Wibble
22-08-2007, 09:16
Since Slann aren't on foot I doubt they can have the Jaguar Charm.

Surely plain combat res kills Kroak? And you have no units to really block as such. My Empire and High Elves wouldn't like this list but my Wood Elves would walk all over it.

forgottenlor
22-08-2007, 09:27
Kroak will lose to combat resolution. This is clear. He is not so immobile as he seems, since he can turn for free. Consider also that the can cast spells through the skink shamen and he can see over his own troops and cast spells in a 180 degree radius. If I were playing him, I would also definately take shadow steed, and try to teleport when my opponent is out of dispel dice.
Clearly success with this army means hiding out shooting and casting spells, and avoiding combat at all costs. With the right terrain, it could work well.
I think it would have mixed results. It would either win or lose big, depending on the quality of both players and the armies. As Von Wibble said, It won't have a chance against wood elves. Kroak also should be able to handle himself in combat against most normal wizard killer units (fliers, light cavalry, and skirmishers (except dryads).

King Thurgun
22-08-2007, 15:54
<<< Has never read the Lizardman army book

Doesn't Croak need a unit of temple guard to haul him around?

Methinks you will annihilate large portions of armies with magic but fast lists with decent magical defenses will destroy you. Any tourney list will be bringing 2 dispel scrolls and thus will be able to survive a turn of magic, and the turn after that either Croak will be dead or you will be on your way to winning.

Bretonnians, Wood Elves, Chaos, and anyone with cannon will smash you. One good shot/uber cav charge is all it takes and you're down 1225 points :P

Avian
22-08-2007, 16:09
Kroak doesn't need a Temple Guard unit.


I fought a very similar list at a tournament once and even if he didn't really have a chance against my horde list it is a contender for the worst game I have ever played. Dull game, horrible opponent.

khorne666
22-08-2007, 16:26
I think the list could be effective, and I think neither khorne nor beastmen would have a field day with it. Khorne units have frenzy, and you have small fasr skink units. If you want, you can pull them all over the battle field, lead them into forstest, swamps, and other places, they would rather not be. I'm also not sure how big your magic pool is, but I am sure its more than even Khorne players' ban pools would be.

I have to agree with leaving the units were they don't want to be but not on the dispell pool, every unit with mark of khorne will add one dispel dice, and if your oponent is smart and puts char's in his expensive units I can next to guarantee they will all have magic esistance so anything worth taking out will be near impossible. And this is assuming a mortal army, if it's daemonic then all of the bloodletters 9which will make up the bulk of the army) have magic resistance 2, so if you get anything khorne, tzzentch, elven or dwarven will be bad for you. I just don't like magic and/or shooting heavy armies since I am a khorne player and share his hatred of magic so I am very biassed.

forgottenlor
22-08-2007, 19:38
I have to agree with leaving the units were they don't want to be but not on the dispell pool, every unit with mark of khorne will add one dispel dice,

Kroak starts with 5 dice and a bound spell (If I remember correctly) plus gets a free dice for every spell he casts. plus 2 in the energy pool, plus 2 for each shaman. Pratically this is at least 13 energy dice if not more at 2000 points. How many dispel dice does your 2000 point Khorne army have?


Lord Kroak, with no unit to hide in will be very ulnerable to artillery and warmachines.

Kroak has 8 wounds and at least a 4+ ward save (maybe even 3+) I think one would need at least 2 canons to kill him in this manner.

Kadrium
22-08-2007, 19:44
Any army with fast troops like Brets or Ogres, and enough dispel scrolls and mages to keep your magic phase at bay for two turns will maul you.

radbug
23-08-2007, 06:57
Kroak has 8 wounds and at least a 4+ ward save (maybe even 3+) I think one would need at least 2 canons to kill him in this manner.

Actually 2+ wardsave against shooting, so woundig on 2+, ward saving on 2+ and avering 3.5 wounds per shot means 16.5 cannonballs is needed on average, or 2 VERY lucky shots.

/R

BigRob
23-08-2007, 07:01
I'm seeing this list as being a poor choice for tournament play due to Kroak. If he dies, you loose extra VPs AND the best result you can achive is a draw, even if you massacre the enemy. Since mnay Tournament lists are cut throat and powered up, they shouldnt have trouble picking off the lonely Kroak for easy points and points denial for you, Brettonians especially will acomplish this.
Another Little thing about Kroak that dont help includes the fact that using the skink priests means there is a chance they will become stunned (cos of Kroaks power being too much for them), He costs over 1200 points and takes up 3!! FOC slots
Basically IMHO you will be outgunned, out manovered and even in some cases, out magiced by the foe.

Good Luck

Bazzal
28-08-2007, 02:38
its a 2+ ward actually, so hes slighty tougher, not to mention all the crazy rules where all enemies in base contact get hit in shootin phase, the -'s to his croak, all magic weps are hand weapons. although one thing that does confuse me he is the same as a 2nd gen slann as in he has the contemplation rule so why doesnt his profile show this? which means his profile may get the extra wounds for being a 2nd gen slann meaning 10 wounds, 2+ ward, at T6 with -1 to hit. basically if this is true hes a dam hard ass and unless hes on his own will be very hard to kill. also for quick note his bare minimum casting value is 5 and thats with just 1 D6 (assuming he rolls a 1, then add 2 for being croak, and +D6 a 2 so not a miscast) meaning his magic is goin to get through alot even with a army havin 2 scrolls, it wont really matter hes got pleanty of spells and dice.

daGreatMaw
16-09-2007, 02:09
i think the neccesary question to ask is "is this list fun?". will it really be entertaining to just run away from everyone while blasting them to bits with magic and poison shots? i guess if its a tourney list and winning is really THAT important to you...

Death-Jesta
16-09-2007, 07:20
wow.. magic ouch. That is massive brutality. Nothing really gets enough dispel to stop that.

gerrymander61
17-09-2007, 12:06
Just get 2 dispel scrolls to hold off the worst of his magic (most armies include that as standard) then just get him into close combat, he breaks, game over. Now, if he was in a unit of TG, then yes, I would say this list is cheesy because it will be nigh on impossible to break said unit.

Oh, and skaven brass orb owns him. :P

TheDarkDuke
18-09-2007, 04:09
Honestly many people will be pissed at you, however personally the only army I field that couldn't beat that army with relative ease(as long as the dice gods arn't against me) with is Ogres. I've never understood the whoel fear of skink armies with mass magic, maybe its the standard lists I play with as HE and Skaven.

T10
18-09-2007, 08:14
How Cheesy is this list really?

About a thousand.

-T10