Are there any good guys in warhammer? And if so who are they? For instance are elves and dwarfs any more disposed toward good than humans?

In broad terms 'good' can mean morally virtuous types fighting for morally virtuous causes. Those with noble virtues beyond mere self-interest or self survival.

Note also I mean 'good' from our own RL perspective, not 'good' from the perspective of a dark elf.


Disclaimer: Obviously good is a subjective term. There can never be one exact universal definition. Different posters with have slightly different notions of what is good and what isn't. However all this is perfectly fine, it's simply the way things are, so don't get in a flap about it. I only say this because I know there is a small minority who like to get pedantic about such matters. ;)

Well I am still thinking of dipping my toe in, and have a couple of ideas.


A lost tribe that still follow the old gods of man, based in either the Bad or Dark Lands (havent decided which) Going down the ancient Celt line.

Mauruaders backed up with Maruaders on horses, Chaos hounds, a Sorcerer or two and maybe
Incarnate Elemental of Beasts and/or Fire.


Themed on British Civil War. Had enough of the squabbling barons, and have set up in an abandoned town. Become quite prosperous, with a puritanical faith.

Thinking Lots of spear men, some cavalry, gunners and cannon and Witch Hunters.



Would any of these fit in with what is already in the background?

Hello seers! :)

Ok so by the power of the warp you get magically transported to the olde worlde and land up in the (relative) saftey of the empire.
Hmm not a bad day worse, you think to yourself rather than die raving like a madman that this isnt 'the real world' you ponder how to make some gold using your 'advanced' knowledge of modern day earth. You make a name for yourself and get rich but your also get noticed by the powers that be, luckily the emperors men get to you first rather than the witch hunters. You are brought before the emperor and any excuses you mkae are quickly quashed by his advisors and wizards who reveal you are from another plane of existance and so techincally some kind of daemon. Thinking on your feet you claim to be of some use.

To stave of being executed what is it you design/invent/propose that would help the empire?

So, I'm building a Vampire Counts army now, and I'm theming things around Estalia. Estalia seem almost entirely forgotten in fluff, but I know things do exist.

The army is led by the Condessa Izadora Ochandez de la Capella. In life, Condessa of Diamonterra, a city on the northwest coast of Estalia.

My plan is to run skeleton-heavy using swords rather than spears, and converted to be wearing morions.

I like Etherials too, especially Hexwraiths, so any spanish-themed ideas for them would be fantastic! What would distinguish an Estalian Banshee or Spirit Host?

What I'm looking for here though is largely suggestions and knowledge of obscure Estalian fluff, other conversion projects I might attempt and so-on.


Oh, and if anyone speaks Spanish, what (shortish) phrases could be written on banners? Something suitably vampiric and Estalian.

Really, Estalian Vampire free for all thread, too.

How would I go about making a tzeentch fluff army? i only know very little of fluff and I have currently read bits in the daemon of chaos book please help :)

So for those of you who have read the new High Elves armybook, what do you think of the Gods of the Annulii aspect? I know it's only briefly mentioned in a few areas, but I found this to be a really interesting concept. Are they Elven gods? Gods of chaos? Something else entirely? It really gets the imagination going. I found that story about the Elf who went up to the mountain tops and came back with his eyes completely gone and never speaking again really interesting. I know it will most likely never be explored upon, but what do you guys think is up with the Gods of the mountains?

Have the Druchii ever enslaved a Saurus or other Lizardman? Would it even be possible?

Lo folks!
well the new book is out now right?

So what's new?

Stuff on the new units?
changes in the fluff?
Have they told us anything new about the political climate of Ulthuan?

So after finishing the sigmar time of legends I was just wondering, who... or what really controls Krell? If we take the VC book into account it could be Kemmler or more likely Nagash, however after reading the last book, god king I believe.. well I'm not to sure anymore. Does Khorne still empower him to some extent, I mean in fluff terms he is far more powerful than in game stats would lead you to believe, literally smashing anything sent against him and performing feats that no wight king to my knowledge has performed. He seemed like an absolute beast in the book, kinda like a living (well dead) nuke that Nagash deploys when he wants something dead, dead, dead. Even the Vampires supposedly the most powerful of the dead didn't want to cross him. Any the point is he probably doesn't server kemmler but now that I've read the book I'm not sure Nagash has total domination of him, perhaps he merely serves because he gets into the best slaughters with him? Much like a living warrior in that respect I guess, although Nagash has total dominion over the dead. Well how does that stack with one whose soul has already been claimed by the god of war himself?

Also really wish Krell's stats made him even half of what he was in that book. Would be really cool as an alternative super undead fighter lord that wasn't a vampire, less finesse and more Hulk smash if you get what I mean.


Just noticed the thread title... Gotta love auto correct.

Just saw the trailer for the new Thor movie and the leader of the villains known as the Dark Elves is apparently named Malekith the Accursed.........guess the Witch King has given up on Ulthuan and is moving onto hollywood

The title says it all.

Skaven- No.
Dark Elveves- yes (in a sick twisted way)
Chaos- Yes(The ones that are not deamons or chaos warriors)
Chaos Dwaves- ?
O and G- ?
Vamps- Yes
Beastmen- ?
Ogres- ?

These are just my thorghts, some I have no idea about and some I've probably missed.

It says in the warhammer rulebook that chaos will ultimately prevail. So...

A speculative list here, note I am mostly just listing playable factions, other factions out there are either less important or simply too little is known of them.

After Kislev The Empire would be pretty much the first thing in the path of chaos as it sweeps south. Once The Empire falls Brettonia would be next in line. With Brettonia gone the Wood Elves would be hopelessly surrounded and soon destroyed as well. Chaos would then pick off the rest of the Old World humans with ease, though the vampires could escape by fleeing south. The northern dwarf holds would topple one by one until finally Karaz-a-Karak was taken. The last point unconquered within the Old World would likely be the hidden city of Skavenblight.

Having wiped out the Old World there is a good chance that chaos will then turn it's attention to destroying Cathay. As the final faction bordering the chaos wastes the Dark Elves would also be taken out. After that their main target would likely be Ulthuan, though as the Dark Elves have found before it would take time to conquer. The High Elves could buy time by retreating to the Inner kingdoms but eventually they would go down.

Chaos in the Old World could then press on south into the Badlands, kill some greenskins, mop up the last dwarf holds and then destroy the tomb kings. Meanwhile chaos in the east, having taken Cathay, could start destroying the Ogre Kingdoms.

Finally chaos could land on Lustria to take down the last big civilisation in the world, namely Lizardmen.

Greenskins, vampires and skaven would survive longer than most due to being so spread out globally and difficult to fully eradicate. These latter factions also being good at hiding in remote places. But when the chaos wastes swallow up the whole world there would eventually be no escape.

With chaos now ruling the world it would fight among itself. The chaos dwarfs will discover they are much fewer in number than the followers of the big 4 so they would be wiped out. The realm of chaos is now expanded to consume the whole planet and daemons can manifest anywhere. The beastmen and warriors of chaos would then be destroyed by unlimited daemons.

Hello all,
I've posted this elsewhere, but seeing as most of the people at my FLGS tend to hang around here I thought I would post the fluff for my O&G army here as well so that they could see. my fluff is a bit unorthodox so I thought it would be best to make sure the community was ok with it before I set it in stone. here's the basics:
the army was once a human expedition into the Badlands that thought that there was some way they could make money off of something in the badlands (what that was they had no clue, they were very much on a wing and a prayer) They established a camp on the ruins of Strigos, and began digging for valuable artifacts. their leader and his son discovered a magnificent tomb, and accidentally disturbed the spirit of Ushoran (maybe it wasn't even his entire spirit, it could have been just a dark fraction of his soul) who had been driven mad by the years.
believing that the two were the ancient soldiers assigned to guard the gate during that fateful siege, who had abandoned their posts, the spirit said that they were as much at fault for the city's destruction as the orcs, and unleashed a massive curse that turned every man in the expedition into an orc. after that the spirit was quite pleased with itself, but soon realized in a moment of clarity that these were not the same men, and realized what he had done. too weak to undo the curse, the spirit instead granted the two their intelligence back, and in a final act used the last of his energy to implant in them all his knowledge of magic. weakened the spirit then disappeared. maybe he went on to face judgement in the next life, or perhaps with all his energy spent he simply ceased to be.
now the two walk a razors edge in managing the new tribe between maintaining their humanity, and keeping control of their population.
so what do you think, could this work for some army fluff?

While reading a few BL entries and the Storm of Chaos fluff, I came up with a thought about where GW might have been going with the Dark Elves back then.

N'kari was the Greater Daemon that was summoned (and bound) to do the bidding of Malekith during the third invasion of Ulthuan, as well as the same daemon who was defeated by Aenarion during the Great Chaos Incursion. The daemon swore vengeance upon all of the blood of Aenarion, and didn't take being bound to Aenarion's son well, but enjoyed the idea of getting to kill Tyrion and Teclis after what happened last time at the Shrine of Asuryan. But it got banished and sent back to the Realm of Chaos before the battle of Finuval Plains.

And Malekith went right into the Realm of Chaos to escape Teclis at Finuval Plains. Out of the frying pan and literally into the fire there?

Malekith survived, that's for granted. But without power, without a link to the material world, without anything to draw upon, he was at the mercy of the favored progeny of Slaanesh, possibly for all eternity. Unless he could give up something of worth to Slaanesh to stay N'kari's claws.

And what does a God want in the Warhammer world? The one thing in the whole planet that they cannot take but must be given freely to them: Willing obedience and through that, the soul.

Of course, whatever actually did happen is unclear and Malekith isn't speaking about it. But between the Great War against Chaos and SoC, a larger and larger part of druchii society became Slaaneshi cultists, and Morathi herself bore the mark of Chaos, all the while where Malekith takes no steps to actually putting an end to all of this and where his armies of fanatically anti-Chaos troops are just...not there.

A few things, like some of the Endless being pro-Slaanesh and in bed with Morathi's cabals during Elfslayer begin to take a new light.

Though, it should be asked, if Malekith did give himself over, why didn't he order the entire nation to turn over already? Because to general Dark Elf society, that's a betrayal of what they were taught Aenarion stood for, and just as bad a betrayal as what (Druchii think) the Asur did to them. The followers of Khaine are not accomodating - the God of Murder hates Chaos. But Slaanesh is perfectly willing to allow corruption to go along slowly and surely, the Prince is in no rush. The more drama, the merrier. Is it not said that the gods have a cruel sense of humor?

It all builds towards the looming civil war between Hellebore and Morathi after SoC, that we will never ever get to see sadly. Civil wars are always good fun. ;p

I am curious. When a Daemon Prince chooses to stay among mortals have they completely changed from what they were and any personality and likes are gone? If there is something(Or someone) That was a their favorite when they were human. Would apotheosis shatter any attachment to such a thing? Slannesh is the most obvious example. You have a Chaos Lord that delights in wine women and song, if he turns into a Daemon Prince is he still willing to enjoy himself like he use to. You could probably find example with others, but one is good enough.