Ork Rule Wish List

[starlight]

KLANS!!!

erm...

I'd be very supportive of the single Troops "Boyz" entry, with some qualifications like:

Heavy Weapons are per X Boyz (ie 1 heavy per 5 or 8 or 10 Boyz) to avoid Min-maxing.
Skills: like Tank Hunter - lifting the Heavy Weapons limits, but with restrictions on Mob size.
Nob/Mek upgrades linked to weapon selection.
Frag/Krak Stikbommas - heck the models would likely sell better if they were a viable Troops choice.

Improving the Lootas, for their cost they just aren't worth it.

Definately linking Mob check (et al) to wounds vs size.

Some version of Str4, whether on the charge or not, fix the Choppa or something.
Personally Str4 Orks with Choppa giving -1 to Armour Saves would be perfect.

Dropping 0-1 on all units.

Warboss Stats linked to cost (like 3rd Ed Marine Commander). IE Nob level, Warboss level (current), WAAARGHBOSS level (start about 200pts Str6 T6 ).

[Da Reddaneks]

I just do not understand how anyone can say that the ork list is one of the better codex’s. I do not know any persons who play orks who do not think the orks need dramatic work.

The Codex does not follow the fluff

(1) Strength: A strength 3 ork is redilicious. All the fluff has these guys being able to rip a human apart. Orks should clearly be strength 4.

(2) Weapon Skill: it makes no sense that an ork is as skilled in hand to hand combat as a spacemarine. Orks should probably be WS 3 and not 4.

(3) Choppa: I know this has virtually no chance of changing because of the universal special rule thing but choppas are too hard on terminators and don’t do enough against carapace and flack armor.

Useless Stuff:

(1) ‘uge choppa: this weapon sucks. At 10 points its just not worth it. The feral ork uge choppa of 5 points is really a much more realistic choice for this awesomely mediocre weapon. At least let it strike on initiative. Also perhaps it should be considered a weapon option for squads like the burna, big shoota or rocket launcher.

(2) Stick bombas: suck. Virtually no point in having them.

(3) Lootas: the ultimate sucky unit in the ork codex. You get expensive weapons which the orks cant hit anything with and which are basically subject to overheating. Lootas should get wider options for the weapons they can choose, get a discount on the cost based on the fact that they are simply not as useful to orks as they are to other races and “ooops sorry mate” needs to be toned down. Perhaps on a roll of a 1 instead of killing a guy in the squad you roll on a chart for some kind of effect like a mad boy does for disturbed behavior. No one plays lootas because they suck. If someone tries a unit of them its usually as an experient and then they don’t use them again. LOOTAS SUCK so if anyone reads this in GW please seriously look at redoing this unit.

(4) Dreadnaughts: why have them with kanz around. Sure they are slightly better but considering their cost kans are a better buy for the points. Either eliminate them or beef up a dreadnaught to be special.

(5) Warboss: T4(5). Also it should be a 0-1. give us some other HQ options that cost less just like marines, chaos and several other races do.

(6) Powerclaw: too expensive at 25 points. Powerfists have been reduced in cost to 15 points for vet sgts. Powerclaws should be reduced in cost to something between 10 and 15 for nobs. 25 is an ok price for a powerclaw for a warboss.

(7) Stormboyz: too expensive. Reduce their cost. If a spacemarine with a jumppack costs 22 points a storm boy costing 15 who is really not nearly as good is skewed. I would reduce their cost to 12 or 13.

(8) Kommandos: give them more special weapons. One per squad screws the unit. These guys, fluff wise, are suppose to be well trained and well equipped by ork standards.

(9) Flash gitz: making units pay for upgrades who cant use the upgrade is really cheesy. If a unit of 10 flashgitz has 4 rocket launchers in it only 6 of the guys should have to pay for the flashgits upgrades since the upgrades have no effect what so ever on the rocket launchers.

(10) Buggies: way too fragile for what you get. Bolter fire can take out a buggy or wartrack. Even equipped with rocket launcher its still an investment of 40 points. A wartrack costs the same as a buggy but is not as useful in that it cannot transport other orks. Since buggies don’t have the ability to be used as a transport like a wartruck but, without the weapon upgrade which you pay for separately, cost exactly the same shouldn’t they cost less then the wartucks?

(11) Give us true clans: The way the chaos codex allows a person to build the different factions of chaos (iron warriors, alpha legion, nurgle, ect) is really a great way to do it. Giving veteran skills, alterations to the force organization chart for clans and a few special units and abilities would be wonderful way to do clans.

(12) More looted vehicles: orks should be able to loot pretty much anything. certainly a few vehicles I could see not being able to be looted but I think the vast majority of the vehicles in the game should be. There is no logical reason why orks cant loot a vindicator.

(13) New models: Ork boyz are fine. However, give us a new warboss model that is more pose-able. Also, all of our vehicles just stink. The only way to make a good looking ork vehicle is to make it yourself. The wartruck model is trash. It has virtual grots driving it for gosh sakes. The wartrack is not that much better.

(14) While the original cost of the orks in general were ok when the codex came out they are for the most part overpriced now. While I would never do this as I am an a true ork, an orks orks, I have heard several make very good arguments that the best way to do an ork army now is to use the kroot list. They are as good as orks, and better in many regards, and cost significantly less. Think about that. The best way to do an orks army would be to use another list. Reducing the cost of the units somewhat would go a LONG way to fixing this problem.

Anyway, these are just a few of the things that I thought of off the top of my head! Whoever gets to redo the ork list I just hope that they are a true lover of orks and all things orky. The worst thing that could happen would be to give this codex project to some guy who merely likes orks and thinks they are “on spot” as they are.

[Hercco]

(1) Strength: A strength 3 ork is redilicious. All the fluff has these guys being able to rip a human apart. Orks should clearly be strength 4.

(2) Weapon Skill: it makes no sense that an ork is as skilled in hand to hand combat as a spacemarine. Orks should probably be WS 3 and not 4.

I don't know. Or(c/k)s have always been S3... And one could also argue that Orks shouldn't be as strong as space marines... But your forgetting that Space Marines in the game are not nearly as good as in the fluff. If Orks had WS3, they'd be as skilled as Imperial Guard . Which would be just wrong... I think WS4 is right, Orks fight all the time!

And don't forget the balance issues. S4 would would mean that Choppa would go and which would be just awful, but gladly, like mentioned above, won't be happening. Since there are still no armour save modifiers in 40k, they can't do much else than choppa-like weapons to help against power armours.

(6) Powerclaw: too expensive at 25 points. Powerfists have been reduced in cost to 15 points for vet sgts. Powerclaws should be reduced in cost to something between 10 and 15 for nobs. 25 is an ok price for a powerclaw for a warboss.

25 is bit expensive, but then again Nobz have two wounds. Maybe 20 points would be right.

(7) Stormboyz: too expensive. Reduce their cost. If a spacemarine with a jumppack costs 22 points a storm boy costing 15 who is really not nearly as good is skewed. I would reduce their cost to 12 or 13.

13 points sounds about right.

(10) Buggies: way too fragile for what you get. Bolter fire can take out a buggy or wartrack. Even equipped with rocket launcher its still an investment of 40 points. A wartrack costs the same as a buggy but is not as useful in that it cannot transport other orks. Since buggies don’t have the ability to be used as a transport like a wartruck but, without the weapon upgrade which you pay for separately, cost exactly the same shouldn’t they cost less then the wartucks?

Well... Buggys/Traks are FA choice and they can be equipped with twin-linked rokkit launchas. I think the point costs is about right. If them not being open-topped could be justfied somehow it would work well rules-wise.

(12) More looted vehicles: orks should be able to loot pretty much anything. certainly a few vehicles I could see not being able to be looted but I think the vast majority of the vehicles in the game should be. There is no logical reason why orks cant loot a vindicator.

There is no logical reason but it would be dumb to give Orks more no-need-for-BS mass-destruction cannons. Imperial Guard vehicles should be easier to get than that of the Space Marines.

Whoever gets to redo the ork list I just hope that they are a true lover of orks and all things orky. The worst thing that could happen would be to give this codex project to some guy who merely likes orks and thinks they are “on spot” as they are.

Yes indeed. Oh how we miss you mr. Chambers.

[hairyman]

Hmm, agree with some of Da Reddaneks' post, but....

Not sure what the problem with the dread is.. works fine, IMO. I still often take a dread and 3 kans as two heavy choices.

You (and others in this thread) are right about the choppa. It should be a -1 armour save type thingy, but I think that's considered too complicated for 40k, and I can't really think of an alternative effect within the current system (S+1 seems a bit lame; better suited to revamped Waaargh rules if there's a need).

I think the bikes and buggies are priced fine, I just think the models are terrible and that there should be room for more tinkering with them.

[charlie_c67]

The Codex does not follow the fluff.

Name one that does!

(2) Stick bombas: suck. Virtually no point in having them.

Think all grenades lost something in the switch from 2nd to 3rd. This has been addressed slightly with the combat over a barrier rules and Tank shock but not all grenades have a place yet.

(10) Buggies: way too fragile for what you get. Bolter fire can take out a buggy or wartrack. Even equipped with rocket launcher its still an investment of 40 points. A wartrack costs the same as a buggy but is not as useful in that it cannot transport other orks. Since buggies don’t have the ability to be used as a transport like a wartruck but, without the weapon upgrade which you pay for separately, cost exactly the same shouldn’t they cost less then the wartucks?

Buggies have always been fragile, that's one reason I don't like the current models. They, and the bikes and wartrakks, look too solid, the old metal ones were much better. In fluff they were always flimsy vehicles that were very fast but could be taken out by such things as bolters. I think that ork vehicles as a whole are gonna be looked at properly when the new codex starts

(11) Give us true clans: The way the chaos codex allows a person to build the different factions of chaos (iron warriors, alpha legion, nurgle, ect) is really a great way to do it. Giving veteran skills, alterations to the force organization chart for clans and a few special units and abilities would be wonderful way to do clans.

Think this is where things like the doctrines of the IG and whatsits of the marines will come in. Similar idea for the ork klans but also the option to make your own. So long as they stick to the basic things when giving the examples. I.E. Goffs love CC over long range fire fights, Death Skulls loot more than the others, Blood axes are organised more along the IG lines (and used to ally with them!), Evil Sunz love to go fast etc etc

(12) More looted vehicles: orks should be able to loot pretty much anything. certainly a few vehicles I could see not being able to be looted but I think the vast majority of the vehicles in the game should be. There is no logical reason why orks cant loot a vindicator.

I'd argue against this, for instance can you see an ork zipping round in a falcon? or a devilfish? Yes have some looted vehicles, but restrict the number with Death Skulls and Blood axes being allowed slightly more, but no ork vindicators!

(13) New models: Also, all of our vehicles just stink.

Like I said earlier, they're too solid looking!

[Sai-Lauren]

From someone looking at starting an ork army

1) Clans - maybe even a couple of new ones to go with the original 6 (+ Speed Freaks, but they're basically an Evil Sunz sub-clan anyway).

2) I like the idea of a cut-down VDR for ork vehicles.

3) Sort choppas out - I know it seems like it's demanded for eveything (including ponies ), but maybe rending for them with a points increase.

4) Heavier ork vehicles, like Battlewagons, in the list.

Well, that's my wish, diversity, goofyness, and wierd and wonderfull things!!!

Agree, bring back Weirdboyz, Shokk Attack Guns, maybe even Madboyz (with less random behaviour than RT era).

[TWB]

Warbosses, I think there could be various levels. There should be a Waaagh boss, equivalent to Ghaskull. Waagh bosses should be Monsterous Creatures.

I think that Clan Lists are a shoe in, GW's current trend toward themed lists (Doctrines, Traits, books of chaos etc) will continue, I dare say the Goffs and Evil Suns will be very well represented.

I think a great deal of complication can be avoided with the customisable vehicle concept if it's treated sensibly. Instead of a "stripped down VDR" have a basic Trukk which can be extensively modified by way of Vehicle upgrades, the range of options (if sufficiently expanded) will supply all of the variables needed whilst ensuring that mega trukks are expensive and limited (Perhaps if you spend over a certain amount of points it'll count as an Elites choice) The same Idea can then be applied to BattleWaggons.

(1) ‘uge choppa: this weapon sucks. At 10 points its just not worth it. The feral ork uge choppa of 5 points is really a much more realistic choice for this awesomely mediocre weapon. At least let it strike on initiative. Also perhaps it should be considered a weapon option for squads like the burna, big shoota or rocket launcher.

Uge Choppa weilding Ork Berzerkers, I liked this idea first time I heard it, like it now, this should happen

[IceFire]

There should be several different levels of warboss, from a slightly-bigger-than-nobz one for small 500 pt games to a monstrous creature sized one for 2500+ pt games. This goes with the fluff so much better. The bigger an Ork is the more followers he gets!
The different levels should be reistricted to those specific point values ie; you can take a weedy 500pt warboss to a 2000 pt game, and cant take a 2000pt uber-warlord to a 500pt game

and you cant have a "0-1" limit on a warboss, hes the war boss. without him all you have is a bunch of freebooters with no leader, they wouldnt be lead to battle theyd just fight each other. Warbosses need to be "1"
The only addition to the HQ choices needed is a nob squad seperate to the warboss. (size 3-10)

[Ravening Wh0re]

I quite like the orks as is, apart from the vehicles (need a basic chassis that you add/bolt anything you want on it).

The only thing I don't really like about it is looted vehicles. I know it's a favourite, but ork vehicles like the battlewagon and the skorcha should take pride of place. I quite tired of nearly every ork army possessing a looted leman russ or basalisk.

And since I love my Feral Orks, I want them to be more "ferally".
More beasts, more squiggly things. Less emphasis on madboyz (they don't come across as particularly feral, and are an essential element in all FO armies )
There's so much potential, and I hope they realise it

[TWB]

IceFire, I don't think that limiting characters to certain PV matches iss the way to go, although I understand and agree with your reasoning, How about having a certain amount of basic Ork squads required to allow the warboss, so a regular Boss (2 wound "captain") would require one mob of boyz, a Warboss (the current guy) would require 2 Mobs and the Waaagh Boss (Monsterous creature) would require 3 or even 4 mobs?

[Clang]

Other than the Choppa, how do people feel about the basic ork weapons?

I for one feel that the basic Shoota should be changed to be Assault 1, both for fluff reasons (do orks really bother to stop running to shoot?) and for gameplay reasons (hordes of wildly innacurate orks shooting as they run seems a little more interesting for both sides, and it would justify the otherwise cruel BS 2).

The big shoota and rokkit launcha are fine as they are, but another choice of big weapon would be nice - how about a lite zzap gun for example? Or a grot bazooka, which would work something like the old shokk attack gun, i.e. you fire a grot (thus 'killing' it) from your mob/wargear and it does potentially horrible things if it hits the target...

And yes, some sort of odd power weapon would be nice, or at least something nastier than a Choppa but not Initiative destroying like a power klaw or annoying like the Uge Choppa. It would need to be orky of course - a mere power sword equivalent would be dull dull dull...

[Witch Hunter]

If you believe the fluff, Orks are S4 creatures. The Warboss should be T5 or greater.
Bring back Weirdboyz. Clan Rules will bring back orky variety. A power weapon equivalent upgrade is needed. A reworking of the Waaagh rules would be nice, something similiar to Furious Charge would be better IMHO.

REDO the vehicle models, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

[CELS]

This is a bit off topic, so forgive me. Shan't happen again

You know what would have been really cool!? Instead of just making new plastic kits for warbuggies and battlewagons, they could just make lots of ork vehicle sprues, and then leave it up to the fans to actually put the stuff together like they want it. In my opinion, few ork vehicles should look the same. You could have sprues with thick metal plates, monster wheels, huge tracks, guns, steering wheels, etc, and then just put it all together like you want. You could make a jeep, a half track, whatever. And if you wanted to make a battlewagon, you could just buy two or three of them and make something really huge and awesome.

I guess it'll never happen though.

[Zombie Cow]

Just an idea, but how about to fix the 'Uge Choppa, have it give the Ork maybe +1 strength and "Rending"? And no striking last.

You'll wound a little easier but won't cut straight thru armor like with a power weapon, but you do have the off chance of rolling that 6 and auto-wounding. Also gives the Ork a chance to cleave thru an important part of a vehicle like a power cable or windshield or something.

Any thoughts?

[Zombie Cow]

You know what would have been really cool!? Instead of just making new plastic kits for warbuggies and battlewagons, they could just make lots of ork vehicle sprues, and then leave it up to the fans to actually put the stuff together like they want it. In my opinion, few ork vehicles should look the same. You could have sprues with thick metal plates, monster wheels, huge tracks, guns, steering wheels, etc, and then just put it all together like you want. You could make a jeep, a half track, whatever. And if you wanted to make a battlewagon, you could just buy two or three of them and make something really huge and awesome.

I think that would be a very cool idea and would totally fit the way Ork vehicles should look. The only problem will be all the people out there that aren't the best modelers in the world and don't want to go thru the trouble of having to put together a bunch of random bitz without instructions on exactly how to do it.

Then again, maybe they shouldn't be playing Orks anyways as dey 'aven't got propa skillz wiv da gubbinz!

[Karloth Valois]

Weirdboyz, T5 Warbosses, a new unit or two (or old ones brought back again) and a unique rule or two that makes orks a little bit different from anyone else.

[TitusAndronicus]

Emperor preserve us from codex creep...

No! Gib us da Codex Creep!

Orks is da best and dey should git da best Codex!



seriously, I'd love it if we got a better variety of vehicle models, maybe just a different series of wheels or two, and two chassis that we can add to our kit bashing list.

I'd also love it if my beloved stick bommas got a fix that made them useable. They aren't really handy right now, so I mix my models in wit da boyz.

And I don't think the proposed solutions to the big choppa are there yet. It WOULD be slower, so it would strike last just like a power fist. And the +1 strength works, but I'm not sure about rending along with it. It works great in big units where the numbers will eventually produce an armor cracker. But one guy will get what, 3 or four strikes? That ain't good odds to me.
I say make it +2 strength wid da choppa rule.
That means an average warboss hits wid a strength of 7 and a nob a st of 6 in HTH. you get wounds on 2 or 3's then. Now THAT makes an expensve piece of wargear more worthwhile, while allowing Bosses and Nobs to punch light armor, but not ALL armor.

[starlight]

Solution for the 'Uge Choppa: I2

[Wert]

I want looted weapons to be a heavy weapons choice thats free but still takes up a slot, that dosnt actuly give you a unit, but gives you a certain number of looted weapons and you can attach to any sqauds or vehicles you want (payed for as you attach weapons, so if you dont use up all your looted weapons alowance you dont have to spend the point on weapons you didnt use). Maybe even throw in afew upgrades in, like being able to give one sqaud looted boltweapons, or a grot sqaud lasguns. Having them spread across the army would be much more Orky

[Helicon_One]

Integrate the Speed Freak and Feral Orkz as subsections of the main codex. Have the Clans worked in too, and make them a little more distinct than just 'unit x counts as troops, unit y is 0-1'. The boyz are fine at S3 though, so leave that alone (I could possibly see something like the Goff Klan getting +1 S when they charge, but that's about it)

Giving the Orkz fully customised vehicle types may be too much like the flawed VDR rules, so instead introduce more vehicle upgrades with bigger changes, and let the vehicles be customised that way, including things like bolt-on burnas and force fields. Extend the brilliant Red Paint Job concept to other colours and effects - e.g. a Blue Paint Job makes the vehicle luckier, so gives the vehicle a 6+ save against damage (then change armour plates so they give +1 to the vehicle's armour value). With enough customisation options, it would enable Ork players to recreate old favourites like the Gobsmasha and Mek Speedsta, and the looted vehicle rules could be dropped altogether (really, if the Orkz get their hands on a wrecked Leman Russ, even when they patch it up it shouldn't have much in common with the original Imperial tank...). As an aside, Orks shouldn't really get vehicle models of their own, to get an Ork vehicle you should carefully build an Imperial tank, then hit it with a hammer a few times and pour a bag of glyphs and grots all over it.

Ooge Choppa should be a choppa that gives double Strength, and halves initiative, rather than +2 strength and always strikes last. That way its more comparable with a power claw rather than being inferior to the basic choppa.

Let Flash Gitz be armed with sluggas and Kustom Choppaz, rather than just Kustom Shoota options.

Bring back Wyrdboyz and Warpeddz.

Oh yeah, and I want a Stompa, even if its just the rules you can convert the model from an upturned bucket and a few sheets of plasticard!

Tim