Ending the turns in Blood Bowl

[EVIL INC]

Ok, my buddies and I simply dont like the "you screw up once and your turn is over" rule in Blood Bowl. It simply is not realistic whatsoever. I understand it makes the game go faster and theoretically makes you plan your moves better. To us, that just means not being realistic and not allowing you to fully "role play out" what would be going on.
So, what did we do? We just chucked that rule and allow everyone on each team to do thier thing. Now, that does make for much longer games, but they are much more fulfilling.
What are your views on this?

[davidks]

i like the turnover rule... its there for a good reason... to make u think about how to set up your play

it has cost me the game on a few occasions, but i wouldnt want it replaced...

[Bubble Ghost]

I've tried it without a few times, and it's like the whole soul of the game has been ripped out. With the turnover rule, there's this wonderful sense of looming consequence that adds a tangible tension to almost every dice roll; it's a huge part of what allows the game to successfully create such a genuinely sport-like atmosphere. The turnover rule is the point-blank shot skied over that would have equalised a World Cup final, it's the wasted match point that inspires a comeback at Wimbledon, it's the gambled overtaking manoeuvre in a Superbike race. In sport, one cock-up or poor decision can cost you everything, and one moment of inspiration can bring you glory. The turnover rule adds a slice of that agony or ecstasy to Blood Bowl in far higher concentrations that you'd get without it.

And even apart from all that, it is realistic. It's an abstraction and it doesn't make sense on the surface, but look at the big picture and you'll see that part of what it's actually doing is disguising the itself unrealistic device that is the whole clumsy concept of wargame turns. If the ball's just in front of the end zone and you're trying to scoop it up to score, it's hardly "realistic" if your whole team piles in one by one until one of them manages it. What do you think the opposition are going to be doing in this time, twiddling their thumbs until it's their go?

[rkunisch]

It is very interesting that you use the term realistic within the same sentence as Blood Bowl.

... but apart from that, I am used to the rule and it does make for faster games. If you like to drop the rule, maybe it would be wise to use something instead? Like an additional move (just one player) maybe?

Have fun,

Rolf.

[Flashheart]

I agree with the others - the turnover rule is a very important part of Blood Bowl and shouldn't be removed.

[Brandir]

It always amuses me when people use the word 'realistic' when discussing sci fi or fantasy games.

Anyway, the turnover rule is a superb mechanic and really focuses one on thinking about moves and calculating risks.

In my last game (my Pro Elves against Amazons) there was not one successful 'Go For It' until tuen 4 of the second half. All the previous failures and subsequent turnovers made the game superb and enthraling to the end.

[scottb]

Anyway, the turnover rule is a superb mechanic and really focuses one on thinking about moves and calculating risks.

I agree the turnover rule really makes you focus on what to do on that turn and what is most important, sometimes i hate it though (usually when my wood elf thrower cant pick up the ball, usually on t1 of the 1st half hehe).

[EVIL INC]

When I mean realistic, I mean that the way it is set up it is as though everyone stands motionless on the field and everyone takes turns watching what each other person does. Then when one screws up, the player who was about to block an enemy says, "oh, I was SOO gonna hit you but since he tripped, I cant. Now, you get to hit me. Right here in the ribs is a good spot." For example, everyone stops play and watches as a blitzer plows into the guy in front of him. They eat peanuts and watch to see what happens. Then, when that is done, the next person takes his turn. It makes you feel as though it is happening that way. When everyone goes, it at least gives you the feeel that everyone is running and hitting each other simaltaneously. I am not saying that stopping the game like that is a bad thing. I am saying that to my particuler group, we seem to get more fun out of the game by giving each of players a chance to do thier thing.

[Bubble Ghost]

It always amuses me when people use the word 'realistic' when discussing sci fi or fantasy games.

That's funny, because it always amuses me when people confuse "realistic" with "believable".

Of course Blood Bowl isn't realistic. That's a given. That does not exuse it, or any other "unrealistic" setting, abandoning verisimilitude at whim. Given that there are orcs and dwarfs and trolls who play comedy football, you still have to believe that they would interact as presented if you're to get involved in the game. That's what EVIL INC is getting at; he doesn't think the game adequately represents what would happen during these fantastical football matches.

[Trunks]

You are devaluing the Re-Rolls alot if you get rid of the turn-over rule. Re-Roll counters cost so much because they can be decisive game winning things, they are waaaaaay less important if you don't have the turn-over rule.

The Turn-Over rule is completely realistic. The reason it is realistic is because of the quick pace it forces on the game for the most part. You can't actually make a wargame simultaneous (well, you can . . . but it is a big pain). When you shorten the turns and make the number of actions fewer, then you get closer and closer to a simultaneous game. I really should not have my team sitting still while your eleven players all get to do all kinds of stuff. There should be that moment where your player screws up and immediately I get the chance to make him pay for it, just like in a real sport.

The Turn-Over rule is really important and alot of other game mechanics exist with that rule in mind.

The Turn-over rule also makes the game alot more tactical/strategic. There are calculated risks involved.

You are really making it a completely different game if you don't use that rule.

[EVIL INC]

I guess the simplest way to put it is this... With the turn over rule, you are assuming that no one is moving at the same time. Each player is taking turns doing thier thing rather then the "everyone is moving at the same time and hitting each other simaltaneously" deal that a game of Blood Bowl would really be. Doing away with the turn over rule does devalue the re-rols to a degree but it in no way makes them useless. They are still a valueable item that should be purchased. It just makes them a little overpriced. It is then up to you to decide whether or not to still buy them. Doing away with the turnover also does not make the game less "tactic/strategic", in fact, it makes it more so. Just in new and different ways.
Now, dont get me wrong. We still like the turnover rule version and see nothing wrong with it. I am just saying that my particuler group gets more out of the game without it.