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Thread: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

  1. #41
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    hamilton was unfathomably lucky in the moncao gran prix....good drive or not, he was incredibly lucky.
    Firstly to get that puncture when he did, otherwise his fuel strategy would have been differenmt...then to feed back in only a few places down instead of loads.
    He picked up a puncture on the final lap so that would have put him well out of contention had the race gone full distance.]

    Today's race though.....kimi seemingly having his karma balanced out by being shunted out of the race himself in a rather unfair twist of fate. The only good thing was that it wasnt his fault at all and that hamilton was put out of the race for doing so.

    He stormed off and was clearly gutted......in his immediate interview he even had the nerve to try and pass it off as not his fault!!!!

    It's a shame that heiki never get's the run of luck hamilton does.....
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by theunwantedbeing View Post
    Today's race though.....kimi seemingly having his karma balanced out by being shunted out of the race himself in a rather unfair twist of fate.
    Yes, it was rather ironic that. It was no more unfair than what happened to Adrian Sutil at Monaco though. Speaking of Sutil, I wonder if he spotted the irony of what happened to Raikkonen.

    The only good thing was that it wasnt his fault at all and that hamilton was put out of the race for doing so.

    He stormed off and was clearly gutted......in his immediate interview he even had the nerve to try and pass it off as not his fault!!!!
    It reminded me of David Coulthard in 1995, when he crashed his Williams into the pit wall coming in for a scheduled stop. Nobody else was involved, but he still couldn't bring himself to admit that it was his fault either. I saw echos of this with Hamilton, although I think he was slightly shellshocked by what had happened too.

    It's a shame that heiki never get's the run of luck hamilton does.....
    You'll be pleased to know that Hamilton has been given a ten place grid penalty for the next race, so Kovalainen will have a good chance to beat him.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Wooo.
    If that had happened last year hamilton would not have been punsihed for his incident.

    Perhaps we will see him fight his way through the field in spectacular fashion though.
    Let him prove that he's as good as he says it is...as it's really rather easy to outpace everyone in the fastest car in clear air when they are all fighting each other in dirty air.
    Last edited by theunwantedbeing; 09-06-2008 at 22:04.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Typical, someone puts a Ferrari out of a race they get a penalty, hit a Force India car and nothing is done

    In all seriousness, yes it was Lewis's fault, but a 10 place demotion is a little severe and the same penalty for Nico Rosberg is even more unfair.

    Hopefully we will see Lewis drive his way through the field at Magny Cours in two weeks
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Raikonnens Karma !!? I assumed he was in plus credit for a LONG time after that horrific 2005/6 season LOL

    “Obviously, anyone can make mistakes, as I did two weeks ago in Monaco, but it's one thing to make a mistake at 200 miles per hour but another to hit a car stopped at a red light. "
    After his dad parks a 300k Porsche in a hedge, Lewis has to do one better.
    At least Lewis got a slap on the wrist of his efforts.

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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Typical, someone puts a Ferrari out of a race they get a penalty, hit a Force India car and nothing is done
    Oh how true. Does anyone else remember the infamous barge boards on the Ferrari at the Malaysian Grand Prix in 1999?

    In all seriousness, yes it was Lewis's fault, but a 10 place demotion is a little severe and the same penalty for Nico Rosberg is even more unfair.
    It does seem rather a lot of places, I was expecting something more akin to a five place penalty. Still, you lose ten places for a failed engine, and five for a failed geeabox in the current climate, which is even sillier in my view, since these are not the fault of the driver

    Hopefully we will see Lewis drive his way through the field at Magny Cours in two weeks
    It would certainly make the French Grand Prix more interesting.

    Steam Giant: I like your comment about Lewis going one better than his dad. The irony was certainly not lost on me either.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    It does seem rather a lot of places, I was expecting something more akin to a five place penalty. Still, you lose ten places for a failed engine, and five for a failed geeabox in the current climate, which is even sillier in my view, since these are not the fault of the driver
    In transpires the only penalty the Stewards can issue IS a ten place grid penalty. They do have two other options, but they can only be issued during a race, ie a drive through or a ten second stop.

    I think its about time someone takes the Montreal organisers to task about the circuit and the pit lane. IIRC there has not been any problems with drivers missing the red light at other circuits. Massa got black flagged last year there and Montoya received the same penalty a year or two before that.
    Quote Originally Posted by philbrad
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    In transpires the only penalty the Stewards can issue IS a ten place grid penalty. They do have two other options, but they can only be issued during a race, ie a drive through or a ten second stop.
    That's farcical really isn't it? They gave Fernando Alonso a five place grid penalty at the Hungaroring last year after he delayed Lewis Hamilton in the pits during qualifying, so either they've changed the penalty rules again, or the five place demotion is only possible for qualifying infringements.

    The inconsistencies of penalties handed down in F1 often drive me to distraction (no pun intended).

    I think its about time someone takes the Montreal organisers to task about the circuit and the pit lane. IIRC there has not been any problems with drivers missing the red light at other circuits. Massa got black flagged last year there and Montoya received the same penalty a year or two before that.
    I agree. I really like the circuit layout, and the races that have taken place over the years, but the track should not be breaking up like that. It didn't used to be anywhere near as bad a decade ago, so I can't understand why they haven't resolved the current problem.

    As for the red light situation, yes it's a concern. Both Massa and Fisichella fell foul of it last year, and I'd forgotten about Montoya until I read your post. Perhaps it needs repositioning? The whole pit lane exit in Montréal is a bit odd anyway, due to the fact it feeds into turn two, so maybe this is also part of the problem.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    That's farcical really isn't it? They gave Fernando Alonso a five place grid penalty at the Hungaroring last year after he delayed Lewis Hamilton in the pits during qualifying, so either they've changed the penalty rules again, or the five place demotion is only possible for qualifying infringements.
    The penalties I quoted only apply to causing an avoidable accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    I agree. I really like the circuit layout, and the races that have taken place over the years, but the track should not be breaking up like that. It didn't used to be anywhere near as bad a decade ago, so I can't understand why they haven't resolved the current problem.

    As for the red light situation, yes it's a concern. Both Massa and Fisichella fell foul of it last year, and I'd forgotten about Montoya until I read your post. Perhaps it needs repositioning? The whole pit lane exit in Montréal is a bit odd anyway, due to the fact it feeds into turn two, so maybe this is also part of the problem.
    Until there is another, good circuit for F1 in North America, I think they are unlikely to complain too loudly about Montreal.
    Quote Originally Posted by philbrad
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    The penalties I quoted only apply to causing an avoidable accident.
    Ah, that makes it clearer, thank you. I still can't believe that they don't have a variety of penalties available for this though, since there are various degrees of 'avoidable collisions', but that's Formula 1 .
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steam_Giant View Post
    After his dad parks a 300k Porsche in a hedge, Lewis has to do one better.
    Yes he parked his multi-million pound McLaren in a Ferrari, and he should've been given extra points for that...

    I think the penalty handed out is absurd - Hamilton crashed into the back of Raikonnen, Rosberg crashed into Hamilton. Hamilton, Rosberg and Raikonnen didn't finish the race and haven't scored any points, so the stewards decide to make it even harder for Hamilton and Rosberg next race, yeah that makes sense, not. Not finishing the race and/or not scoring any points as a result clearly isn't enough these days

    On the one hand the accident was avoidable, possibly, but...

    ...the red lights were apparently left on for too long and when your steaming out of the pits you don't expect people to suddenly stop in front of you like Raikonnen and Kubica did (or was it Heidfeld, one of the BMWs anyway).

    If anything the marshalls/race director or whoever else is responsible for the lights being on should have been penalised.

    And would the same penalty have been applied if it was Raikonnen crashing into Hamilton? I think not...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Customer Cars have already been outlawed, so its not an issue from that point of view.
    Yeah shame that, means that's the death of privateer teams who can't afford to build there own chassis. But then I guess the manufacturer teams and Bernie don't want the "poor relations" being in the "sport", seeing as it's not good for business...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    It doesn't help that generally the races are nowhere near as exciting in my view these days. The last really good season we had was 1999.
    Sorry am I missing something in that statement? I thought 1999 was the year in which McLaren dominated again after completely wiping the floor with every one in 1998 due to rules changes and having the better prepared car?

    If you want exciting F1 (relatively speaking, F1 these days is exciting, just not as exciting) you need to go back to the 80s, 1984 for example when Senna was at Lotus and the cars had something like 1200HP. Put Hamilton in one of those and then see how much Senna-like he is, or not as the case would more than likely be.

    Everybody keeps wetting themselves over Hamilton, I don't get why? He's nothing more than a kid with a well-off dad (he was a manager at an IT firm in The City at one point iirc so please don't say he isn't well-off) who just happens to have had the lucky break of being recognised as a potential talent by Ron Dennis when he was karting, and he wouldn't have been racing karts if his dad wasn't well off...

    There are plenty of equally if not more talented drivers out there who never get that sort of lucky break.
    Last edited by RavenMorpheus; 11-06-2008 at 18:23.

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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMorpheus View Post
    Sorry am I missing something in that statement? I thought 1999 was the year in which McLaren dominated again after completely wiping the floor with every one in 1998 due to rules changes and having the better prepared car?
    The Championship was not decided until the last race in Japan, just like the previous year.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMorpheus View Post
    If you want exciting F1 (relatively speaking, F1 these days is exciting, just not as exciting) you need to go back to the 80s, 1984 for example when Senna was at Lotus and the cars had something like 1200HP.
    Senna was at Toleman in 1984, he didn't join Lotus until 1985

    Put Hamilton in one of those and then see how much Senna-like he is, or not as the case would more than likely be.

    Everybody keeps wetting themselves over Hamilton, I don't get why? [/quote]

    Because he IS a fantastic driver and DOES drive like Senna did. Did you not see Lewis's fantastic drives at last year's Canadian, and Japanese Grand Prix and his win at Monaco and his stunning pole lap in Canada at the weekend?

    BTW even Ayrton's own sister, Vivianne, has commented how much Lewis reminds him of her brother.

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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMorpheus View Post
    Yeah shame that, means that's the death of privateer teams who can't afford to build there own chassis. But then I guess the manufacturer teams and Bernie don't want the "poor relations" being in the "sport", seeing as it's not good for business...
    I'm a great fan of privateer teams (I'm a lifelong Minardi supporter, and I've just bought Forza Minardi, which is a great read by the way), but I was never that much of a fan of customer cars. The problem with them is that it's unfair on privateer teams who build their own cars, and there was no satisfactory way to resolve this, hence why they have been banned.

    I would live to see the independent teams return, but customer cars are not the answer. Nor are all the two race engine and four race gearbox restrictions. The amount of money spent on testing and aerodynamics is a major factor. Flavio Briatore has long advocated drastic cuts in testing, so that teams make more use of Fridays at race meetings. He is convinced that the savings would be enormous, and I agree with him.

    Sorry am I missing something in that statement? I thought 1999 was the year in which McLaren dominated again after completely wiping the floor with every one in 1998 due to rules changes and having the better prepared car?
    You are missing quite a bit yes . Did you watch the 1999 season? Schumacher and Hakkinen kept making loads of mistakes, Schumacher broke his leg, Irvine became a title challenger (he wasn't good enough to be world champion, and I didn't like him, but at least he was good for absurd quotes, so many drivers are just so bland these days). Johnny Herbert won a race for Stewart! There were lots of unpredicatable results. Frentzen won two races for Jordan on merit, and could have won the championship! Badoer could have finished fourth for Minardi at the Nurburgring if the gearbox hadn't broken, and who can forget the BAR fiasco....They promised pole for their first race, and a victory during their first season, and what did they achieve? Nothing at all. They scored not a single point, finshed last, behind Arrows and Minardi, in the constructors' champioenship, and Villeneuve only finished four races (he didn't finish any of the first eleven). Compared to recent seasons, that was plenty of action, and as Wintermute says the title went down to the last race after the Ferrari barge boards controversy. How was this not exciting?

    If you want exciting F1 (relatively speaking, F1 these days is exciting, just not as exciting) you need to go back to the 80s, 1984 for example when Senna was at Lotus and the cars had something like 1200HP. Put Hamilton in one of those and then see how much Senna-like he is, or not as the case would more than likely be.
    I've got Autocourses dating back to 1984, so I'm fully aware of how exciting the racing was in the 1980s, so I agree with you. I wasn't watching them on TV then, but between reading the race reports and having seen some archive footage of Senna, Mansell, and Prost amongst others from the 1980s, I am suitably impressed.

    Everybody keeps wetting themselves over Hamilton, I don't get why? He's nothing more than a kid with a well-off dad (he was a manager at an IT firm in The City at one point iirc so please don't say he isn't well-off) who just happens to have had the lucky break of being recognised as a potential talent by Ron Dennis when he was karting, and he wouldn't have been racing karts if his dad wasn't well off...

    There are plenty of equally if not more talented drivers out there who never get that sort of lucky break.
    A colleague of mine used to know Hamilton and his dad very well, and from what she has told me, I don' think that your claim is particularly accurate or fair. I'm not saying this a die hard Lewis fan, because I'm not, but Wintermute is quite right in what he says about the quality of Lewis's driving, regardless of the inexplicable error in Canada.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Meh. So 1999 was better than I remember it. I just remember Schumacher crashing (at Silverstone wasn't it, where he broke his leg?) and Hakkinen going on to win the championship again.

    It seemed to me like it was just the year after 1998 where McLaren wiped the floor with everyone (or maybe I'm seeing that as a better year for McLaren than it was), and they went on to do pretty much the same thing. And all the other bits are just the usual goings on of a F1 season to me.

    As for Hamilton, well I'm sorry but I disagree, there is a lot of the car in his success and I don't think that his "meteoric rise to fame" is warranted. If he was in a Honda, a Red Bull or a Farce India he wouldn't have received half as much attention and we wouldn't be hailing him as "the next British F1 world champion"...
    Last edited by RavenMorpheus; 12-06-2008 at 13:24.

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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMorpheus View Post
    Meh. So 1999 was better than I remember it. I just remember Schumacher crashing (at Silverstone wasn't it, where he broke his leg?) and Hakkinen going on to win the championship again.
    Yes, Schumacher did indeed crash and break his leg at Silverstone.

    McLaren and Hakkinen made such heavy weather of it, that's why it was so interesting. The number of races they should have won, but didn't was incredible.

    Here are the races Hakkinen lost after Schmacher broke his leg:

    A1 Ring (Austria): Coulthard tips Hakkinen into a spin on lap one, Mika recovers to third, but Irvine wins.

    Hockenheim: Hakkinen leads by miles, then his tyre explodes and he retires. Mika Salo lets Irvine through to win.

    Spa: Coulthard and Hakkinen bang wheels at turn one on the opening lap. Coulthard wins easily after Hakkinen seems to lose motivation.

    Monza: Hakkinen on course for an easy win, when he inexplicably spins off. He cries in the bushes afterwards. Frentzen wins, and Irvine now shares the lead of the championship with Hakkinen, despite the Ferrari now being a much slower car. Irvine concedes that they (Ferrari) got out of jail that weekend.

    Nurburgring: Hakkinen and Irvine, and their respective teams make numerous errors with pit strategy in a fascinating wet/dry race. Ferrari even manage to lose one of Irvine's tyres! Herbert eventually wins for Stewart, Gené scores a point for Minardi, holding off Irvine's Ferrari, while Hakkinen squeezes past him to fifth near the end of the race. It was a truly memorable afternoon. Ralf Schumacher, Fisichella, and Frentzen all could have won. Badoer's Minardi would have been fourth but for that gearbox, and even BAR could have scored, not that I wanted BAR to score anything after the arrogance their team had demonstrated (needless to say Villeneuve's car broke down again).

    Malaysia: Schumacher returns, Ferrari are suddenly on the pace again. Schumacher spends the whole afternoon driving deliberately slowly to hold up Hakkinen, allowing Irvine to win. It's a Ferrari one two. Later that day, both Ferraris are disqualified for illegally sized barge boards. The decision of the stewards is overturned by the FIA shortly afterwards. Apparently, an extra five mm is now permissable on barge boards. The FIA claim that it's an issue of tolerance in the measurements. McLaren are dismayed, as Hakkinen, who had been declared world champion after the the disqualification of the Ferraris now has to win in Japan to take the title.

    Suzuka: Irvine is off the pace all weekend, so he is relying on Schumacher beating Hakkinen to victory. Hakkinen and Schumacher battle at the front all race, but Hakkinen wins admist accusations that Schumacher wasn't driving quite as fast as he would have been had he been in contention for the title. Schumacher deflects attention away from this, by accusing Coulthard of poor driving and deliberately blocking him, while he (Schumacher) was trying to lap him.

    This was just the second half of the season. It was pretty dramatic stuff all the way through to be honest.

    seemed to me like it was just the year after 1998 where McLaren wiped the floor with everyone (or maybe I'm seeing that as a better year for McLaren than it was), and they went on to do pretty much the same thing. And all the other bits are just the usual goings on of a F1 season to me.
    No, you're right. 1998 was much more of a McLaren year, although Schumacher still took the race to Suzuka.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Ah, that makes it clearer, thank you. I still can't believe that they don't have a variety of penalties available for this though, since there are various degrees of 'avoidable collisions', but that's Formula 1 .
    I think a point deduction would be a fair penalty. Maybe -10 points for Lewis making him just behing Kimi and -3 points for Nico dropping him behind his Team mate.

    I feel drops in grid positions makes for more accidents particulary if its a front runner. I dont want to see collisions between drivers not in contest. Hence why I feel point penatlies make more sense than grid slots.

    EDIT: As for "F1 isn't as good as it was in the good old days" you sound like duddering old men [/cheeky]

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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    That was a pretty dull qualifying session for tomorrow's French Grand Prix unless you are a Ferrari fan. Whenever Raikkonen gets pole it makes me want to fall asleep.

    As far as I can see, it's a guaranteed Ferrari one two tomorrow unless it rains. Would anyone care to participate in a rain dance ? Thunderstorms are forecast, and that would certainly make the race more interesting. In fact the only good French Grand Prix I've ever watched at Magny Cours was the 1999 race, when it rained.

    If it stays dry the question will be who will be third? McLaren will have performed a miracle if either of their drivers gets on the podium, and BMW are a bit off the pace, so maybe Alonso does have a chance of keeping that position.

    Does anyone else have any predictions?
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    I'm hoping for rain too.

    Magny-Cours in the rain is not something the drivers will wish for at all, but it may help Lewis ( and Heiki - who has been issued a five place penalty for blocking during qualifying)

    I really hope we do not have a processional race which results in Ferrari's on the podium.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    No rain, fairly uneventful race really.
    Pretty processional race, the ferrari's were in a league of their own with trulli doing his best to follow. Bit unlucky for raikonnen but at least he didn't have a DNF.

    Piquet beating Alonso...bit of a surprise really, he capitolised on the mistake of whoever it was that was infront of alonso and managed to get past them both.

    Not the most interesting race ever though.
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    Re: Formula One Debauchery and Craziness (and love of sport)

    Lewis penalty didn't seem justified (to me, nor MacLaren). He had already overtaken Vettel before he got to the chicane and would have maintained position anyway.

    It just wasn't going to be MacLaren's weekend was it.
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