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Thread: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

  1. #41
    Chapter Master UltimateNagash's Avatar
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    No, just less people voting - being honest, I haven't voted in a while... Sorry
    :skull: Rachel Grey-Summers, Cassandra Cain, Luka Millfy, Toph Bei Fong, Molly Hayes, Megan Gwynn, Stephanie Brown :skull:
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  2. #42
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by selfconstrukt View Post
    Interesting to see the number is slowly climbing.

    Is it possible that the change is only a perceived improvement to WD?
    I'm inclined to think it is just perceived improvement.

    Last weekend I picked up the December 2003 white dwarf lying in a pile at my LGS and started flipping through it. I got the idea to take the July 2008 White Dwarf (which I at the time thought was actually a vast improvement) and flip through it at the same time.

    I have to say, doing that, you can REALLY see how much better the older ones were. A few things that were struck me at first observation:

    1) Massive amounts of pics in the new version. The older version had a decent number of pics, and I have to admit the new white dwarf is more colorful and eyecatching. The models and terrain are more attractively painted etc. However, does it really need huge one or two page spreads every few pages? I can forgive the article on the artwork of 40k, I mean that was designed to show off pics, but the rest? Do we really need 2/3rds of a page to show pics of every model used in a battle report and a fairly large shot of Alesio and Gav's grinning mugs?

    2) Tone of the battle report. My wife was reading it and she picked up on this. Even though she doesn't play the game, she said she enjoyed reading the battle report in the older WD. Why? Because it described the action from a narrative point of view. It's written from the point of view of the action, from the models, the characters. Something like: "Kais krept forward and managed to send the second chaos marine to his death with a spectacular headshot." As opposed to: "Gav knew that his Terminators would be in position to contest the objective if Alesio didn't manage to roll high enough on his Difficult Terrain test." (not exact quotes, but I'll dig them out when I get home if anybody wants.)

    3) Fluff, fluff and more fluff. The Index Astartes article on the Crimson Fists was about 5 pages long if I'm not mistaken. Of that, you could fit all of the pictures in the entire article onto one of those pages. The rest was TEXT, stuff to READ. Stuff that interested me.

    That's not all, there's another massive article that contains an excerpt from a novel, also great reading.

    I think in all there was about 3 articles of just stuff about background, story and fluff. And they were nice long articles with big, complicated, grown-up words.

    Nothing to compare them with in the new White Dwarf.

    4) Extra rules. The 2003 edition had the entire rules for Kill Team by Phill Kelly. Yep, an entire new game. Talk about 'A new way to play'. Oh and there was another page with rules for items for some chapter called the 'Relictors'. Apparently it's an ongoing article, must get hold of the previous WD to find out what it's about.

    Yeah, once again, nothing to compare with in the new 2008 WD.

    5) I recall a hobby article also in the 2003 edition, but I don't have it with me, what I do recall was that it actually taught me something new as opposed to the one in the 2008 WD, that appeared to be a list of more reasons to buy the new ink washes.



    Seriously I wanted to put them down on the floor and take photos of them to show people the differences. Even if you can't read anything in there, the differences in content are painfully apparent even from a distance.

    So in conclusion, while the last 2 White Dwarfs might have been a faint improvement, they still have a very, very long way to go before they can be considdered a magazine worth paying actual money for again.
    "We're Cadian lord, it's not called retreat, it's called consolidation." - Warden-Captain Parmenion Thade, Cadian 88th.

    Quote Originally Posted by massey View Post
    You're complaining about something being a waste of money in a game where we pay fifty bucks for a box of little plastic men? Next you'll be telling me that deep fried twinkies are bad for you.

  3. #43

    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Iīd like to say that I actually like both ways of doing a batrep, if itīs done well. There were horribly boring "Guy needed a four, because our games are sooooo balanced and soooo much could change, both armies are reaaaaaaaaaally at the same power level" ones and fantastic ones, especially with outside players. The fantastic gobbo army, the Helves vs. Delves one, wow, great read, I read it every now and then. Great armies, good commentary from the players, funny stuff (solo Cold one Knight running around buggering people). But there are also great in-character battle reports and silly ones, so I generally like them, too.

    Thing is, last WD was the German one from March or April, I flicked through it and nothing really grabbed me. I promise Iīd buy WDs again as long as every third or so has some of the cool stuff of old, like GormkaMorka Pub Brawl, Kill Team, heck, even some Warhammer (skirmish) or Wh40k (combat patrol) scenarios with added storyline, etc. Or a rotating special on the Specialist games. Ugh, please. Iīll buy it at a high price!

  4. #44
    Commander Tooooon's Avatar
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    My opinion on them results? People lowering there standards on the judging on WD issues.

    For example if you were to compare the earlier WD issues to the ones where it started to go a bit downhill, my guess is that the ratings will be quite low.

    But overtime people have accepted the lower quality, and when theres an issue which isnt 99% oversized "buy this army" images, it gets a higher rating purely for that fact
    Luke, use the forrrrrrk

  5. #45

    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I think the older WD were more hobby and crafts (for lack of a better word) oriented, for example the extremely old versions (from the 1990's) had modeling templates that gave you step by step instructions on how to convert a Rhino to a whirlwind, using a large base and some plastic card cut-outs. They even have templates for flags, etc. Now that they have models for everything they would rather showcase these items to pump up sales.

  6. #46
    Chapter Master Draconian77's Avatar
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Well really I think the major difference is that older White Dwarfs added to the hobby whereas the newer ones are just to boost sales. GW don't seem to understand that it takes more to interest people than pictures and them telling us how "Cool and shiny" something is.

    The battle reports have really gone down hill. It started with this consolidation of turns(Bleh...) and then we lost most of the narrative(That doesn't upset me too much, I always thought that GW should have 2 Battle reports per issue, 1 for 40k, 1 for WHFB. One would be a competitive game and the other a narritive driven game. Next week swap, rinse and repeat. So Comp-WHFB Nar-WH40k one month and Comp-WH40k Nar-WHFB the next month.
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  7. #47
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooooon View Post
    My opinion on them results? People lowering there standards on the judging on WD issues.

    For example if you were to compare the earlier WD issues to the ones where it started to go a bit downhill, my guess is that the ratings will be quite low.

    But overtime people have accepted the lower quality, and when theres an issue which isnt 99% oversized "buy this army" images, it gets a higher rating purely for that fact
    I totally agree. I still find myself looking at White Dwarf's pre-300. The ones after that and especially about 315 I read only once.

    I haven't the magazine since about Aussie issue 320 anymore but borrow them from other people. There is really nothing exciting in them, nothing to warrant picking the magazine up again and again. In fact everytime I "read" one it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

    So when you get the odd better issue (e.g. Warhammer Fantasy 25th anniversary) it seems really good. But then compare it with an old issue and it's rather pale in comparison.

  8. #48
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Free inserts in WDs that made up into buildings for the battlefields. Others that were new sections for other GW games, like Space Hulk. Then there were the special insert flyers and catalogues for special deals.....bundled deals, reduced in price deals too.

    The articles were better.....some of the time. There were also mistakes in those (sent in by players/fans) article, rules not followed, mistakes in math. Mistakes that should have been caught by proof reading done by WD staff members.

    For myself, WD is not a good read anymore. More months than not, it's more of the same.
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  9. #49
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooooon View Post
    My opinion on them results? People lowering there standards on the judging on WD issues.

    For example if you were to compare the earlier WD issues to the ones where it started to go a bit downhill, my guess is that the ratings will be quite low.

    But overtime people have accepted the lower quality, and when theres an issue which isnt 99% oversized "buy this army" images, it gets a higher rating purely for that fact
    Spot on. I still myself shaking my head at people giving a current issue of WD an '8' because it was 'a bit better than the last few'. Maybe my standards are too high, but no WD since the end of 2005 has been worth more than a 5, with the vast majority being around the '2' mark.

    Plaguebeast

  10. #50
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I agree that the quality has been declining. I remember my first or second issue of white dwarf that came with a Dark Eldar gladitorial combat game... I miss that stuff.

  11. #51
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooooon View Post
    My opinion on them results? People lowering there standards on the judging on WD issues.

    For example if you were to compare the earlier WD issues to the ones where it started to go a bit downhill, my guess is that the ratings will be quite low.

    But overtime people have accepted the lower quality, and when theres an issue which isnt 99% oversized "buy this army" images, it gets a higher rating purely for that fact
    Yeah, they really have. I haven't read many of the old ones, but the current ones are terrible. I believe it all started going downhill when the battlereports started gettign rigged ever since the beginning of 4th. The new Space Marines White Dwarf featured a Terminator heavy force fighting a Necron army with no rez orb.

    Tell me what Necron player who has more than 11 minutes of playing doesn't take a res orb?
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  12. #52

    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I remember reading that terminator vs necron battle. Horrendous necron list.

    I only just now noticed that the price of a WD has in fact risen two US dollars from 6 to 8. That is utter insanity in my opinion. Based on many people I've talked to both on forums and in person (in multiple states), the quality of WD has gone downhill. While this may seem obvious to many, how on earth has GW not realized this? Usually a decrease in quality should mean a decrease in price...not an inverse reaction!
    Are WD sales actually high? Am I missing something? Do newer players actually buy the mag?

  13. #53
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    It's all part of a new plan to grow in the USA. The higher the price of the WD will likely cause less people to buy WD. The less WDs GW sells....then the next month they can have that many less printed. Pretty soon nobody will buy WD....THEN look at all the money GW will save printing up very few or no WDs.......

    It's kind of like closing stores that cost too much rent and then NOT replacing them, not relocating to a different location close by at lower rent. Why we can just buy direct via mailorder or on line. Pay extra money for shipping and handling.

    Products for sale in stores....part of the $$$ built into the retail price is the expense of handling and shipping. At GW we get to pay twice for that part of the suggested retail /list price.
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  14. #54
    Chapter Master UltimateNagash's Avatar
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I haven't bought it in a bit, cause well, £4.50 and no content... I couldn't even read the battle reports, I mean, they didn't make any sense and showed no form of tactics, players thoughts or competent lists...
    :skull: Rachel Grey-Summers, Cassandra Cain, Luka Millfy, Toph Bei Fong, Molly Hayes, Megan Gwynn, Stephanie Brown :skull:
    "Ohhh... this is how it all ends... Pond flirting with herself... true love at last."
    My available short stories: The Ending Star and A Hunter of Auld Times
    "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy... Let's go exploring!"

  15. #55
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateNagash View Post
    I haven't bought it in a bit, cause well, £4.50 and no content... I couldn't even read the battle reports, I mean, they didn't make any sense and showed no form of tactics, players thoughts or competent lists...
    The reports have got notable worse recently, although it is only relatively recently, i couldn't understand what was going on in the last ork based linked battles at all. I enjoy narrative campaigns (does anyone remember that article where imperial forces fought against renegade guard forces in a massed tank battle and the multiple players on each side had to tape record instructions for each other and then leave the room as their team mates played?) but laely its become impossible to tell whats going on. is it because they don't go turn by turn any more? Or because maps have been sidelined for huge images of the board?

    I've certainly stopped enjoying them.
    Sold off my last 40k army in order to buy an empty case to put the extra Privateer Press models I'm going to buy in.

    I hope I'm part of a trend. I hope they learn.

  16. #56
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I don't want to reiterate what every body else has said. But needless to say, that, those of us that have access to WD 250-300 can really tell the difference with the current ones.

    I guess what is shocking, is how different it is. That WD puts more ad, I don't mind.
    But that GW puts ads where before there were scenarios, fluff, player's armies and such...THAT I mind, because it takes away from the joy of the game.

    Clearly, GW has stick to its guns. I remember reading (i think it was on this forum actually) that GW was going to take WD from a hobby magazine to a hobby catalogue, and they have done just that.

    So, unfortunately, GW did say it was going to happen, and it has.

    Shame, at least, we get to revel in how so much better it once was.

  17. #57
    Chapter Master UltimateNagash's Avatar
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    because they don't go turn by turn any more? Or because maps have been sidelined for huge images of the board?

    I've certainly stopped enjoying them.
    Both of them and the style of telling it, with it being unclear, bits being chopped off and chucked somewhere else and no form of actual discussion on the tactics or why they did that...
    :skull: Rachel Grey-Summers, Cassandra Cain, Luka Millfy, Toph Bei Fong, Molly Hayes, Megan Gwynn, Stephanie Brown :skull:
    "Ohhh... this is how it all ends... Pond flirting with herself... true love at last."
    My available short stories: The Ending Star and A Hunter of Auld Times
    "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy... Let's go exploring!"

  18. #58
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    There are a lot of 40K, LoTRs and WHFB player veterans who have been buying WD for several years. Then , there are the newbies, the young newbies(who live at home and do not support themselves). The majority of GW systems players are very likely STILL children (it's GW's target market). The parents and or close relatives likely pay for a WD suscription for those kids who get the WD on a regular basis.

    According to the latest WD.....Resubscribing for ONE year is $75(USD). Starting a new subscription is $80(USD) for ONE year. No choice for more than one year at a time.

    Last time I renewed it was $60(USD) if I subscribed. It was $72 to buy WD newstand style. Now it will be $96(USD) to buy 12 over the counter issues. A twentyfour dollar a year (for 12 issues) cost increase.
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  19. #59
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I'm sure this has been said elsewhere but most of the stuff people are describing as the glory days were at one time lambasted for being a hobby catalogue too. I do think that WD is a far better thing than it was during the awful GW red period.
    Sold off my last 40k army in order to buy an empty case to put the extra Privateer Press models I'm going to buy in.

    I hope I'm part of a trend. I hope they learn.

  20. #60
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    Re: White Dwarf Feedback Over Time

    I've found it to be getting worse, if that's possible. Can somebody find me the demon's army list in the February White Dwarf Battle Rep? If so, I might consider giving it more than a 2 or 3.
    CSM 4th edition: 7/1/4 (W/T/L)
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    Saying the other guy was cheesy is a crutch so you donít have to admit any personal failings. Make excuses! Donít face painful truths, donít improve, donít ask for a friendly rematch, just be bitter and mutter under your breath how you should have won.
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