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Thread: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

  1. #4101
    Chapter Master Radium's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Eldrad has all farseer powers, and seeing as everyone takes him over a regular farseer, I assumed you would take eldrad as well.
    Let me answer your question with another question: do vehicles have an Ld value to work against? And what does a vehicle do when it gets wounds?

    The nob bikers I have faced were usually taken care of with the following: two wraithlords using flamers on them, baldestorm, warp spider shooting and finally wraithlord assault. Kills the nobs dead in a single turn. Don't spend half (or more) the battle worrying about them, as you should focus on the rest of his army and kill the nobs when they get too close for comfort.
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  2. #4102
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    Eldrad has all farseer powers, and seeing as everyone takes him over a regular farseer, I assumed you would take eldrad as well.
    Not everyone takes Eldrad you realise .

    RadgeR: A regular Farseer with two powers (Doom and Mind War if you so choose) would serve you well enough if you don't want to take a Special Character.
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  3. #4103
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I also am a person who very rarely takes eldrad. I have to say though, the fews times that he has come along for the battle ... it has been a trip and a half. I mean he's just a problem solver. Like "the wolf" in pulp fiction. I don't though, view him as negatively as I used to as, lets be honest, 40k is now specialhammer. (See Marine and Guard Codex's). I mean there seem to be very few marine and guard players that don't bring a special these days so i don't really any powergamer guilt for dragging him along.
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  4. #4104
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I played in a local RTT this weekend, and while I managed to win two games, I only placed 6th out of 8. I just couldn't get enough of the points for each round because my army was designed to win, but not wipe out the enemy.

    The full write-up can be found here: http://www.meanderingthedunesea.com/?p=530

    The list I was running is here: http://www.meanderingthedunesea.com/?p=528
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  5. #4105
    Chaplain Silentexile's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I got thrashed by a mixed Nid list recently in a spearhead deployment seize ground with 5 objectives. What do you other Eldar players due to counteract Nid lists?

    My list:
    ==HQ==
    Prince Yriel - 155
    Farseer - 95
    ---Runes of Warding
    ---Doom
    ==Troops==
    2x 10 Dire Avengers - 152[304]
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Catapults
    ---Bladestorm
    10 Storm Guardians -130
    ---2 Flamers
    ---Warlock
    ---Destructor
    ---Singing Spear
    3 Wave Serpents - 130[390]
    ---EML
    ---Spirit Stones
    ==Elites==
    6 Fire Dragons - 96
    Wave Serpent - 125
    ---Scatter Laser
    ---Spirit Stones
    ==Fast Attack==
    2x 5 Warp Spiders - 127[252]
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Death Spinners
    ==Heavy Support==
    2 Fire Prisms - 150[300]
    ---Holo-fields

    TOTAL - 1849


    His List:
    Winged Melee Hive Tyrant
    Shooty Hive Tyrant(didn't have devourers though)
    2x Carnifex (similar loadout to the shooty Hive Tyrant)
    2x 20 Spinegaunts
    3x 8 Genestealers w/ Scuttlers and some other sutff
    4 Warriors/3 with Barbed Stranglers(I think) and a Venom Cannon

    I played using reserve mech tactics deploying on turn 2, and promptly got cornered and my army picked apart piecemeal. Apart from not deploying in reserves (Nids and possibly Orks are the only armies I feel I shouldn't stay in reserves against,) what would be some things I should do to up my chances of beating Nids, especially monstrous creatures, as my Dire Avengers seem to make pretty short work of Spinegaunts. Keep in mind, this is my take all comers list, so if any slight tweaks are to be made, they can't be done to tailor to beat this army.
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  6. #4106
    Commander Nabeshin1106's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I'd drop the Holo-fields and use the points to buy a couple more Dragons. I haven't used Yriel, so I don't know how much he can do, but I'd consider dropping him in favor of some more Spiders, and maybe a 3rd bare bones Prism.

    Concentrate as much power anti-tank power on Flyrant in the opening stages as you can. Don't spread your fire around on separate targets, concentrate on one MC until it's dead and then move to the next.

    Deploy in a denied flank formation, and keep your range as long as possible, don't hide in reserve, you want to do as much ranged damage as you can, then move in for the kill with the Avengers and Guardians. I'd keep the Spiders together and send them to take care of the Stealers or force as many saves as you can on a Doomed MC or the Warriors.

    Sidenote: Were the Warriors shooting small blasts? That would be 3 Deathspitters and a VC.
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  7. #4107
    Chapter Master Radium's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Last time I played against nids was a doubles tournament, where we played double Eldar. The things that helped most against the monsters were Rangers, Starcannons, Warp Spiders, Avatar, Yriel.
    For the other beasts (gaunts and warriors) Avengers should mostly do the job, maybe coupled with doom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Not everyone takes Eldrad you realise .
    Of course I do . But most people who want a seer take either Eldrad or make a very conscious decision to not take Eldrad. Whether they not take him because of points, or a dislike of special characters is up to them. But from taking a quick glance at some army lists both on this forum and on tournaments, Eldrad appears in about 80% of them instead of a normal farseer.
    Last edited by Radium; 29-06-2009 at 07:44.
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  8. #4108
    Chapter Master Meriwether's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    On killing nob bikers with shooting:

    A Farseer with Doom and Mind War is absolutely your best bet, and then combine that farseer with, ideally:
    1. Fire Dragons,
    2. Warp Spiders and/or scatter lasers,
    3. Anything that pumps out a lot of shots (e.g. dire avengers).

    The mathhammer shows you just how tough these units are, and just how good fire dragons are (comparatively) at taking them out.

    **For those not interested in the mathhammer, I will note with a :skull: where I get back to analysis.

    10 shots = 6.666 hits = 5.555 wounds + .5555 (doom) = 3.055 unsaved wounds = approximately three dead nobs. IF they didn't turboboost that turn. If they did, it's 1.85 wounds for approximately two dead nobs. Not too bad, but not awesome, either. (Actually, it *is* awesome compared to any other unit in the entire game except for Dark Eldar, but it's still not great.)

    Oh, did I mention that both of those numbers are overly optimistic? In reality, what you've got is ~2 dead nobs and a single wound on the boss, or ~1 dead nob and a single wound on the boss.

    Warp Spiders:
    20 shots = 13.333 hits = 8.888 wounds + 2.963 (doom) = 5.92 (or 3.95 TBing) unsaved wounds that do *NOT* cause ID, so you've caused about six (or four) unsaved wounds spread around the squad, IF you've managed to kill the painboy already. If not, you've caused about three (or two) wounds, killing no bikers. Not bad, considering, but pretty brutal considering you haven't even come close to killing a nob with the squad.

    Dire Avengers Bladestorming:
    30 shots = 20 hits = 6.666 wounds + 4.444 (doom) = 5.555 (or 3.70 TBing) unsaved wounds, so another five-to-six-(or-three-to-four)-if-the-painboy's-dead OR two-to-three-(or-one-to-two)-if-not wounds, and no dead nobs.

    On the Dragon's Breath flamer:
    Heavy flamers in general are not all that good against nob bikers. Given the size of the models and the fact that they tend to be relatively spread out, you're not going to hit all that many. Let's say you can reliably hit six, which is tremendously optimistic. You'll wound three, and the fact that it's an AP 4 template weapon removes both the cover save and the armor save -- which is very nice -- but if they still have FNP you're looking at 1-2 wounds, and if they don't it's still only three... and yet again that's spread out amongst the squad. Not *bad*, but again, the number of hits is likely far too high.

    On Wraithguard:
    10 shots = 6.666 hits = 5.555 wounds (+0.93 doom), about two of which inflict instant death. Half of these will be saved, so on average you'll kill one nob and spread another 2 (or 1 if TBB) wound around the unit. The ID makes the wounds done here better than the wounds done by other units... but this rather lackluster performance is with a unit of ten(!!) wraithguard.

    Scatter laser war walkers? Three of them? With guide?
    24 shots = 12 + 6 hits = 12 wounds (+4 doom) = eight (or five) unsaved wounds; possibly half that if FNP is still up.

    Summary to prove a point:

    If you shoot a squad of doomed 10 nob bikers + painboy + warboss with:
    10 fire dragons,
    10 warp spiders,
    10 bladestorming dire avengers,
    one highly optimistic dragons breath flamer,
    10 wraithguard,
    *AND* three guided scatterlaser war walkers...
    you will, on average, do:

    Painboy + turboboosting? Two dead nobs, one wound on the boss, and ten wounds spread around the squad. Given the vagueries of wound allocation, you *might* have just killed about three-to-four nobs total, leaving the rest with one wound.

    Just Turboboosting? Two dead nobs, one wound on the boss, and eighteen wounds on the squad, spread around will still kill the other eight.

    No painboy and not turboboosting? Three dead nobs, one wound on the boss, and twenty-five wounds on the squad. On average, they should all be dead, including the boss.

    :skull: So what does all this mean?

    1. Unless you are planning on shooting at the nobs with three squads of ten fire dragons (which would be *hilarious*), you MUST prioritize killing the painboy before you do anything else. He's not an IC, so your only option for doing this is Mind War... He gets the 4+ cover save against the wounds, which sucks for us, but hey, nobody else has any real recourse for taking this jerk out!

    2. Doom does almost nothing for you if you are using fire dragons or wraithguard, is pretty good if you are using warp spiders, and is a godlike buff for low-S units like dire avengers.

    3. If your plan is to shoot them to death, you must prioritize essentially your entire army to eliminating them.

    4. It is probably better to let them eat a squad in hand to hand so that they do not have their turboboost save before trying to eliminate them.

    5. It might be worthwhile to try to knock them below 10 models and then try pinning them with pathfinders and/or vibrocannons. They'll be Ld 9 with the warboss still alive, but it might be worth trying anyway.

    My BEST advice is to keep in mind that NOB BIKERS CANNOT CLIMB STAIRS, and are incapable of going into intact buildings (though they can assault and destroy them), and cannot go onto the second story (or higher) of ruins. Sure, they're pretty good at shooting, but not nearly so much as they are at melee. Stay in your transports, stay in buildings and (especially) multi-story ruins, and plink away until they're all dead, hur hur hur.

    Meri

    P.S. Any interest in a somewhat mathhammer-heavy analysis of your options vs. nob bikers in melee?
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  9. #4109
    Librarian Karnstein's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Played a 1500 point match against another eldar players a couple of days ago. Startet writing a battle report, but sadly I'm only halfway through, thanks to upcoming tests and the fact that english isn't my mothertongue anyway. If everything works out fine, it should be finished until wednesday.

    Small teaser anyway: I played a flamer heavy mech-list, he used a mixed force. Game was 6 turns (we had to leave the store after turn 6, because they closed the shop) and I lost thanks to some stupid fault on my side and his "I won't die" last man standing guardian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post

    P.S. Any interest in a somewhat mathhammer-heavy analysis of your options vs. nob bikers in melee?
    Yes...
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  10. #4110
    Marine Kaminari's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Anticipated Analysis result (in short):

    - Attack them! Don't get attacked. Sacrifice a tank if you must.

    Eldrad + Seer Council: good to go, but better with Yriel/Avatar
    Eldard + Yriel + Scorpions: only attempt so if the Bikers are weakened by shooting already
    Harlies alone: don't do this...
    Eldrad + Banshees + Doom: don't do this, still risky with Avatar / Yriel...
    Harlies + Doom + 2 Wraithlords: Go, get the Manic Mushrooms!
    Storm Guardians + X: better have them dust off the armour of their fellow craftworlders.

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  11. #4111
    Scout stegoerik's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Can a wave serpent hold two squads of six???????
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  12. #4112
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Silentexile View Post
    My list:
    ==HQ==
    Prince Yriel - 155
    Farseer - 95
    ---Runes of Warding
    ---Doom
    ==Troops==
    2x 10 Dire Avengers - 152[304]
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Catapults
    ---Bladestorm
    10 Storm Guardians -130
    ---2 Flamers
    ---Warlock
    ---Destructor
    ---Singing Spear
    3 Wave Serpents - 130[390]
    ---EML
    ---Spirit Stones
    ==Elites==
    6 Fire Dragons - 96
    Wave Serpent - 125
    ---Scatter Laser
    ---Spirit Stones
    ==Fast Attack==
    2x 5 Warp Spiders - 127[252]
    ---Exarch
    ---Dual Death Spinners
    ==Heavy Support==
    2 Fire Prisms - 150[300]
    ---Holo-fields

    TOTAL - 1849
    I'd lose the Holo-Fields as well as the Spiders to put your Farseer on a Jetbike and add a Seer Council. To keep the Farseer cheap you could substitute Fortune for Doom. You should have enough points to add in 5 Warlocks on bikes with Enhance, Embolden and Destructor X2.

    You'll be wounding those MCs on a 2+ and the council is generally a good pick in an Eldar army, so it's definitely not tailoring to fight your opponent's specific force.

    To stegoerik: No, one squad plus any ICs if you have the room.

    @Meriwether: The scenario you propose is a bit unrealistic (Nob Bikers aren't going to get that close to Wraithguard ) but the general idea is there. Fire literally everything you have at them and you should bring them down. My current "competitive" build has 20 FDs and they perform admirably. A mounted Seer Council also works wonders against them; if you can use Mind War to kill even one of them, you can start forcing Ld tests and as soon as they fail one you will probably win.

    I also like using a Fortuned Avatar because for the points he is rather hard to kill. Again, if you can kill a couple Nobz at range first it becomes that much easier to win combat and force some Morale tests.
    Last edited by Refyougee; 29-06-2009 at 14:42.
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  13. #4113
    Chapter Master CoolKidRoc's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by stegoerik View Post
    Can a wave serpent hold two squads of six???????
    No Wave serpents and all vehicles can only carry one unit, plus any ICs that are part of the unit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
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  14. #4114
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
    Two dead nobs, one wound on the boss, and ten wounds spread around the squad. Given the vagueries of wound allocation, you *might* have just killed about three-to-four nobs total, leaving the rest with one wound.
    Don't you need to allocate wounds so that you kill a model whnever possible so that you don't have more than 1 (besides ICs) injured-but-not-dead model in the whole unit?
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  15. #4115
    Librarian Karnstein's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by MindEater View Post
    Don't you need to allocate wounds so that you kill a model whnever possible so that you don't have more than 1 (besides ICs) injured-but-not-dead model in the whole unit?
    Yes and no. If we take a squad of 3 Oblis and assume that the csm player fails 2 saves, he must take one obli from the table. But if the whole unit breaks down into complex groups of one model each, he can spread wounds around.
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  16. #4116
    Chapter Master Meriwether's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    NOTE: In the above post I forgot to factor in the 5++ save... This only matters against the DB flamer, and reduces the number of wounds by 33%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnstein View Post
    Yes...
    Ok: You're screwed. Ork nobs will crush any dedicated CC units the Eldar have into little tiny powdery pieces of powdery, dusty dust. And then spit on the motes floating up from the pile.

    That isn't to say that, when combined with a general boat-load of shooting, some CC attacks can't be fruitful.

    Let's look at some situations, mathhammerwise, and see what's what. In all of the below situations, we assume that the Eldar get the charge. This is NOT a great assumption.

    HOWLING BANSHEES:
    On the charge, with doom: 27 S3 PW attacks + 3 S5 PW attacks.
    27 attacks = 13.5 hits = 2.25 wounds (+1.875 doom) = 4.125 wounds = 2.75 past the 5++.
    3 attacks = 1.5 hits = 0.75 wounds = 0.5 past the 5++.
    Total = 3.25 wounds, for a total of three wounds and no dead nobs. On the return:
    32 attacks = 21.333 hits = 14.222 wounds = 7.111 dead banshees.
    6 power fist attacks = 4 hits = 3.333 wounds = 3.333 dead banshees.
    3 'Urty syringe attacks = 2 hits = 1.666 wounds = 0.833 dead banshees.
    5 boss power fist attacks = 3.333 hits = 2.777 wounds = 2.777 dead banshees.
    So the banshees lose 14 banshees... That'd be all of them, plus four.

    STRIKING SCORPIONS:
    On the charge, with doom: 36 attacks + 4 PF attacks.
    36 attacks = 18 hits = 6 wounds (+4 doom) = 5 unsaved wounds = 2.5 past FNP, for a total of 2-3 wounds and no dead nobs (or five wounds if the painboy was killed with Mind War prior to the assault). The nobs then wipe you out before the scorpions get to go. (Approximately five unsaved regular/syringe wounds, plus six power fist wounds).

    Add Karandras, and you get 8 PF attacks = 5.33 hits = 2.98 more dead nobs.

    SHINING SPEARS:
    On the charge, with doom, and an accompanying autarch: 8 S6 PW attacks + 3 S8 PW attacks + 5 S6 PW attacks that hit on 3's.
    8 attacks = 4 hits = 2.666 wounds = 1.777 past the 5++.
    1.5 hits = 1.25 unsaved wounds = ID one (0.83) nobs
    5 PW attacks = 3.33 hits = 2.22 wounds = 1.85 past the 5++
    For a total of one dead nob, plus 3-4 wounds spread amongst the squad. In response, you die.

    DIRE AVENGERS:
    18 attacks = 9 hits = 1.5 wounds = 0.75 unsaved wounds (=.375 past FNP)
    2 attacks = 1 hit = 0.33 PW wounds = .22 past the 5++ save.
    For a total of approximately 0.5-1 wound.
    In response, the nobs aren't nearly as good because they are facing -1 attack and a 4+/5++ save unit...
    24 attacks = 16 hits = 10.666 wounds = 5.333 dead avengers.
    4 power fist attacks = 2.666 hits = 2.222 wounds = 1.481 dead avengers.
    5 boss power fist attacks = 3.333 hits = 2.777 wounds = 1.851 dead avengers.
    3 'Urty Syringe attacks = 2 hits = 1.666 wounds = 0.833 dead avengers.

    So instead of being wiped out out of hand, you now have approximately 0.5 living dire avengers. Woot.

    THREE WRAITHLORDS WITH SWORDS:
    9 attacks = 4.5 hits = 3.75 wounds = 2.5 dead nobs (2-3).
    In response, 6 PF attacks = 4 hits = 2 wounds, plus 5 PF attacks = 3.33 hits = 1.67 wounds, and 20-ish regular attacks = 10 hits = 1.666 wounds = 0.555 unsaved wounds...
    So you'll lose definitely one, maybe two wraithlords.

    A FORTUNED AVATAR:
    Five attacks = 3.333 hits = 2.22 wounds = 1.48 past the 5++.
    In response:
    32 attacks = 16 hits = 2.67 wounds = 0.296 unsaved wounds.
    6 power fist attacks = 3 hits = 2.5 wounds = 0.625 unsaved wounds.
    3 'Urty syringe attacks = 1.5 hits = 1.25 wounds = 0.139 unsaved wounds.
    5 boss power fist attacks = 2.5 hits = 2.083 wounds = 0.521 unsaved wounds.
    For a total of 1.581 wounds.

    So this one is darn close to a wash. (The fortune totally saves his butt!)

    SEER COUNCIL (10 warlocks) ON BIKES WITH ALL THE TRIMMINGS:
    30 attacks = 15 hits = 12.5 wounds + 2.08 doom = 8.33 unsaved wounds (= 4.16 past FNP).
    2 attacks = 1 hit = ~1 wound = 0.5 unsaved wounds (= 0.25 past FNP).
    So they kill no nobs, but do around 8-9 wounds. Not too shabby at all!
    In response:
    32 attacks = 21.333 hits = 14.222 wounds = 3.55 dead warlocks (past double-fortune).
    6 power fist attacks = 4 hits = 3.333 wounds = 0.83 dead warlocks (past double-fortun).
    3 'Urty syringe attacks = 2 hits = 1.666 wounds = 0.41 dead warlocks.
    5 boss power fist attacks = 3.333 hits = 2.777 wounds = .69 dead warlocks.
    So the nobs in response kill only 5.48 warlocks. That's fantastic...

    But the nobs won't break, as there are more than 10 of them, so you go into the next round. Let's assume the warlocks lost five guys, and the farseer survived (which is actually pretty unlikely).

    10 attacks = 5 hits = 4.17 wounds + 0.69 doom = 2.43 unsaved wounds (= 1.21 past FNP).
    1 attacks = .5 hits = 0.42 wounds = 0.21 unsaved wounds (= 0.105 past FNP).
    So they do 2-3 wounds, killing perhaps a nob or two, but maybe not. Let's assume they kill one.
    In response:
    28 attacks = 18.666 hits = 12.44 wounds = 3.11 dead warlocks (past double-fortune).
    6 power fist attacks = 4 hits = 3.333 wounds = 0.83 dead warlocks (past double-fortun).
    3 'Urty syringe attacks = 2 hits = 1.666 wounds = 0.41 dead warlocks.
    5 boss power fist attacks = 3.333 hits = 2.777 wounds = .69 dead warlocks.
    So the nobs in response kill 2-3 warlocks.

    So after the second round, which is approximately a wash, the nobs are almost all intact but with one wound, and you're down to 2-3 warlocks and a farseer. And that's if we round in the favor of the warlocks almost every time...

    :skull: So what it looks like on first blush is that Eldar are completely screwed against nob bikers when it comes to melee...

    However, what if, through shooting, you manage to put a wound on all of those nobs, and you've been a good boy and killed that painboy with Mind War? Now, the banshees *kill* 3, the scorpions *kill* five, the shining spears *kill* 4-5...

    So, the summary of these two posts is this:

    If you really want to do well against nob bikers, and you do not have sufficient ruins from which to hide from them like the space-panzees that you are:

    Kill the pain boss with Mind War, doom them, bladestorm them with two squads of dire avengers and/or shoot them with some other heavy-dakka stuff (and NOT fire dragons, oddly enough, unless they have no other targets, because the goal here is not to kill them with shooting, but to reduce them to one wound each), and then charge them with striking scorpions and/or shining spears and/or howling banshees.

    Most likely, the 'ideal' situation would look like this:
    Turn 1: Nobs turboboost. Eldar doom them and shoot at them enough to reduce all or most of the nobs to a single wound (high volume S6 is best for this, but you should definitely Mind War the painboy **FIRST**). IF you manage to reduce all of the nobs to one wound, charge with striking scorpions or a seer council and one other dedicated CC unit. If you have not reduced all or most of them to one wound, DO NOT CHARGE -- you're going to die. And by "all or most of them" I mean "all but perhaps one".

    Turn 2: Assuming you could not charge and wipe them out because you just couldn't pump out enough damage turn one, the nobs charge and eat a squad. Eldar shoot with more stuff. If possible, Mind War the warboss if the painboy is dead. Otherwise, mind war the painboy again (before you shoot). Two dedicated CC squads charge. Nobs die before they get to go.

    Total result: Nobs wipe out maybe one squad, Eldar wipe out nobs + IC.
    Problem: The ork player probably brought two of these squads, comprising his entire army.

    Solution: Lather, rinse, repeat... You'll just lose a few more squads in the process.

    Eldar, more than any other army in the game, have fantastic ability to deal with nob bikers. The next closest is IG, who can drop a ton of ID pie plates on them really quickly.

    ...but neither stand up to Dark Eldar, who can completely humble and humiliate nob biker lists with incredible ease, sometimes without even taking a casualty... But that's a story for a different thread!

    Meri

    P.S. I forgot about the Seer Council on bikes. I'll add them in with an edit.
    Last edited by Meriwether; 29-06-2009 at 15:27.
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  17. #4117
    Chapter Master Meriwether's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Refyougee View Post
    @Meriwether: The scenario you propose is a bit unrealistic (Nob Bikers aren't going to get that close to Wraithguard ) but the general idea is there.
    Yes, that wasn't really intended to be realistic when it comes to using all of that stuff at once! The idea was to give some individual capabilities of units, and then look at what combining these units' fire might do.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindEater View Post
    Don't you need to allocate wounds so that you kill a model whnever possible so that you don't have more than 1 (besides ICs) injured-but-not-dead model in the whole unit?
    See Karnstein's post. This is what makes Nob bikers as sick as they are -- it looks abusive, but it's very clear that this his how they work in the rules.

    Meri
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  18. #4118
    Chaplain
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    is this the law or the spirit of the law? because I think the goal of that rule was to avoid having to keep a tally of the wounds on the unit. it's lost as soon as you have an IC in the unit and it makes those units even more powerful without boosting their cost... I don't see why it should matter that there are different models in the unit. I mean, that, yes, you spread evenly the wounds for the saves, but the unsaved wounds are used to remove models as soon as possible with the exception of ICs and upgraded models...
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  19. #4119
    Chapter Master Radium's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    The problem is, Nob bikerz are all upgraded models. ALL nobz have 'special' and unique equipment, making every model different.
    Ave applicator paintoris!

    I paint some Horus Heresy stuff.
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  20. #4120
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I see... I hate them
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