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Thread: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

  1. #841
    Chapter Master Dweomer's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    @Incarna: As boogaloo said, SMF gives a 4++ cover save. Fortune allows a re-roll of that, since it is a save. :-)

    @Eskimo: Not a bad little tutorial there... I had to read your explanation to understand step 5, but it amused me when I did.

    As to the new Sternguard... well, playing fully mechanized is one option... a different one is something I've been thinking about the last couple weeks in response to the new Space Marine Codex. I call it "Fun with Autarchs" or "How to use target denial to screw with your opponent's game plan.":

    So there has been some recent debate about "real" tactics in 40k. Being the armchair general that I am, I gave this a think and came to the following:
    40K strategy is what and how you bring things to a tactical level. I consider this to be army list development, terrain deployment, and game-level rules. These are the choices made before you know what the mission is.
    40K Tactics are the tabletop decisions of movement, action, and risks all to the idea of winning the game. This includes things like what objectives to go after, what unit goes into that bit of cover, who they're going to shoot at, etc. These are the choices you make over the course of the game.

    Another way of looking at it: A strategic decision is to take 2 Lash of Submission so that you can pull units closer to your CC army. A tactical decision is to Lash *that* unit of IG forward so that they'll be in charge range of your Raptors.

    That being defined, I wanted to take a look at the new strategy of SM Drop Pod Assault. To get a starting point, I asked "How is this any different than pods in the last edition Space Marine Codex?" The answer: a cool-looking model, reliability of function, and new SM toys.

    I'm not talking a single pod of Sternguard, I am looking at pods as something for most or all of a force. A good Drop Pod army is going to have 3-7 drop pods in it. Prior to now a Marine player had the option of either coughing up $100+/model, buying off-brand replicas and tooling them up a bunch to meet standards, or scratch building their own. Miserliness and laziness were key factors to keeping this strategy a by-line rather than a commonality. Now there's a good looking and inexpensive official model out.

    Then there's the changes to the rules. Historically the pods came in from Reserves via Deep Strike. This means a random roll for Reserves. Now many competitive players like to minimize the random effect where ever possible. It's the same reason you don't often see many competitive Orks with gobs of Warpheads. Players would never know how many of what units were going to come in at any given point. Now Drop Pod Assault lets you pick 1/2 your pods to automatically come in on the first turn, then the rest as normal Reserves. Players can stack the deck to get heavy amounts of firepower into their opponent's deployment zone right off the bat. You can even buy "empty" pods, deploy the guys on foot or in Reserves, and use their pod to up the number of full pods in the first wave. Then if first wave of Pods isn't vaporized, you can safely call in Termies, Vanguard (that can then assault), and other pods on top of them. The DPA has become fairly reliable as a tactic.

    And then there's new toys... 2+3++ Assault Termies, Sternguard with swiss-army bolters, Ironclads, etc. Space Marines have a whole slew of fun filled new units. The trick is that most of these units only shine when they're at 12" or less of the enemy. For many of these guys, a round or two of Shooting is going to be a good bit more effective than the +1A for charging.

    So what's this all mean? Expect to see DPA more often. Many of the disadvantages have gone away, while the advantages keep piling on. It isn't going to take long before more players hit upon the idea of complete target denial. You may have seen it before against an all pod army, it may have happened in a Dawn of War mission, or it may be a new concept... but how do you deploy when the opponent doesn't deploy a single fig on the board? Even more so, what do you do when an army like that gives you the first turn? That's complete target denial: having nothing on the board for your opponent to react to nor attack.

    The answer to those really depends on the mission and your army. Most people will deploy normally, advance on objectives, spread out a bit to deny choice drop locations, but stay tight enough for squads to be mutually supportive. Really it's the best call option for most armies. Securing a couple flanks and "going turtle" a variant of this, especially if you have supporting cover. The downside is that these are reactive measures. The DPA is going to have the initiative, able to pick and choose their skirmishes to apply maximal force.

    Alternatively, you can be prepared for this from the start. Options to look into include an Inqusitor with Mystics, Autarchs, old Auspex and other such gear. I can't detail what will be exactly right for your army, but hopefully I've gotten you thinking on the right track.

    So this is an Eldar tactica... what can an Eldar army do against this? Well, Fortune and good deployment aren't a bad idea... but what about turning the tables right back on them? I'm talking about Autarchs! One is good, two are better. Since every mission uses Reserves, you can always option to put your forces there and then get them on Turn 2 on a 2+. This means you can pull the target denial trick on others. The mobility of an Eldar army means you shouldn't ever be worried about getting where you need too. This can also be used to counter enemy target denial strategies too, given that they often move in on the first turn but you can hold out to the second or even third.
    An example from a recent game:
    Deployment: 1750 point Capture & Control and I'm given first turn against a Deathwing army. I smile, accept and deploy nothing on the field. Deathwing gets flat-footed, declares three units of Termies doing Deathwing Assault while the rest deploy across the board.
    Turn 1: I sit in Reserves, amused at the mon-keigh "strategy". He then strikes in his three termies equidistant across my deployment zone while advancing his others forces up.
    Turn 2: My entire army shows up and saturates the left flank, destroying a Termie squad in left midfield through Bladestorm, immobilizing the Land Raider on the right with Serpent Mounted Lances, and dropping 9 Termies from my DZ through fusion gun & shuri-cat fire combined with Banshee and Autarch CC. He takes a few shots, but CC protects most guys so he moves everything else towards my left flank to try and engage.
    Turn 3: I mount up, eat the remaining midfield units and position for taking down the others. He takes a few shots and charges my Banshees, losing all 5 Termies before they can even attack.
    Turn 4: I Wipe Out the rest of his army. Total losses: 4 Banshees, 2 Dire Avengers and 1 Wave Serpent.

    So here's my items for discussion:
    1. What do you think of the above target denial strategy? Have you tried it?
    2. Can you think of better ways to stop DPA? Have you tried them?
    3. What other non-standard Eldar strategies do you enjoy? (I can think of a few, but I've already gone on enough.)
    Last edited by Dweomer; 25-10-2008 at 00:42.
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  2. #842

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    actually you just reminded me of a four way we had. THey all knew I was on the worst quarter least cover for monster creatures and tanks which left me in a very tricky situation as I had a very "what ever list (wanted to play with all my fav units)" which means I had bikes, serphs and wraithlords (yes I knwo WL and bikes + ws???? wtf???!!!!)

    Mission Kill points

    The one player had a drop pod army so half had to come in first turn.

    The other was a SM bike army.

    Other was a dreadnought infested army.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So what I did was exactly what you said. Reserve the whole army. They were all taken by suprise as all their weapons were pointing at me. This left alot of commotion and evil planning (hehe I also had a bad rep in last tournament cause I've only played the game for like 4 months properly and already one of the top in my state/province). So they had no choice but to drop pods in their own areas or right smack bang in my area to be shot at in the next turn by the opponents dreadnoughts.

    The player decided he had no choice but to drop his pods in his own area. This worked fully against him though due to scattering he blocked his own fire lanes and messed up his positioning.

    Bike army had problem with his scout moves and had to waist them turning to a whole new opponent as I wasn't on the board

    and dreadnought army was taking pot shots at other players.

    by second turn most my force came in having scorpions pilling in on the flanks to take on a badly scattered thunder fire cannon which scattered near a board edge. WS abusing badly scattered drop pods denying shots allowing 3+ cover saves (cover the front but only can shoot the side) and worked brilliantly.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    End of game I landed up winning purely off target denial.

    But after your analysis I really wanna start up my fire dragon army I posted last time in army lists.

    But going back to stern guard... I'm actually tempted to run prisms if this SM spree doesn't end any time soon cause these dam sternguard drop pods are annoying me by taking out my WL anti tank!!!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    P.S thanx for comments on tutorial.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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  3. #843
    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Good tactical analysis there Dweomer. The reserves idea is one that is being discussed currently on Eldar Online, and I assume it will become relatively common-sight. I initially had throw out the idea when I was discussing the viability of my Wipe Out list (which was all mech), though it was a rather small hint that I had made, suggesting that the tactic would be used only when I didn't get first turn.

    The problem is becoming, as I'm reading other's discussions, not so much any negative effects of the Reserve tactics, but rather in the fact that it is SO good. It's been working to such great effect, that many players are taking that route, and are inputting autarchs solely for manipulation of reserves (I wouldn't take them otherwise). But more than just this use of Autarchs, it's becoming a key reason to build mechanized armies, and now more than ever I'm hearing tourney players talk about how mechanized has become practically the only viable option. Before anyone jumps on me, these are players that play against hardcore "cheezy" lists with skilled generals behind them, and so in large part I would agree with their statements. So while I do love this particular tactic, and will begin employing it myself, I will say that I am very disheartened with the idea that we are realizing it is one of our few viable tournament worthy options.

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok
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  4. #844

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Can I get a link to eldar online plz?

    Just want to read their analysis. Ty
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  5. #845
    Chaplain ernest101's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    ah thanks eskimo and dwoener for the suggestions! hehehe...
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  6. #846
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Dweomer: Thanks for that analysis. I haven't played against the new Space Marines Codex yet, so I haven't fought against the Drop Pod Assault style Space Marine army, and it seems that some crafty tactics, such as the one you suggested, will be needed to beat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stezerok View Post
    Good tactical analysis there Dweomer. The reserves idea is one that is being discussed currently on Eldar Online, and I assume it will become relatively common-sight. I initially had throw out the idea when I was discussing the viability of my Wipe Out list (which was all mech), though it was a rather small hint that I had made, suggesting that the tactic would be used only when I didn't get first turn.

    The problem is becoming, as I'm reading other's discussions, not so much any negative effects of the Reserve tactics, but rather in the fact that it is SO good. It's been working to such great effect, that many players are taking that route, and are inputting autarchs solely for manipulation of reserves (I wouldn't take them otherwise). But more than just this use of Autarchs, it's becoming a key reason to build mechanized armies, and now more than ever I'm hearing tourney players talk about how mechanized has become practically the only viable option. Before anyone jumps on me, these are players that play against hardcore "cheezy" lists with skilled generals behind them, and so in large part I would agree with their statements. So while I do love this particular tactic, and will begin employing it myself, I will say that I am very disheartened with the idea that we are realizing it is one of our few viable tournament worthy options.
    Yes, there has been rather a lengthy, albeit interesting, debate about the Eldar in fifth edition, and the need for them to go mechanised in order to be competitive over at Eldar Online (which is part of 40K Online for those who haven't been there before). I do feel, however, that the need for mechanised list is particularly prevalent in tournament games, rather than friendly games, so I wouldn't get too disheartened just yet, as I hope that other approaches to Eldar army design will still be common place away from the tournament scene.

    Are you still using your 'Wipe Out' list by the way? I rather liked it, so I'm curious to know if has been a success overall.
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  7. #847
    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Yes, there has been rather a lengthy, albeit interesting, debate about the Eldar in fifth edition, and the need for them to go mechanised in order to be competitive over at Eldar Online (which is part of 40K Online for those who haven't been there before). I do feel, however, that the need for mechanised list is particularly prevalent in tournament games, rather than friendly games, so I wouldn't get too disheartened just yet, as I hope that other approaches to Eldar army design will still be common place away from the tournament scene.

    Are you still using your 'Wipe Out' list by the way? I rather liked it, so I'm curious to know if has been a success overall.
    oh yea, I was only speaking to tournament games, not so much friendly ones.

    But as for the Wipe Out list, it depends on whether I proxy or not. I have enough stuff to proxy the list since I only have like 2 tanks, but usually I just play my regular army which isn't very mechanized really... But in general, it's performed well. It's done surprisingly well against my friends Necrons (though I still need to try it against his 2 Monolith army), and it's done well against my friend Orks when I've played it. Still haven't played any Marines yet though sadly.

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok
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  8. #848
    Chapter Master deathwing_marine's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Hey guys! I won the tournament on Saturday! I'll give a little detail on my games
    Reminder on my list:
    Farseer (Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding)
    10 DA (exarch, pw&ss, bladestorm, defend)
    Wave Serpent (SL, SC, SS)
    10 DA (exarch, 2xcats, bladestorm)
    Wave Serpent (BL, SS)
    10 HB (exarch, executioner, warshout, acrobatic)
    Wave Serpent (SL, SC, SS)
    10 FD (exarch, dragon's breath, crack shot)
    Wave Serpent (SL, SC, SS)
    Wraithlord (BL, EML)
    Fire Prism (holofields)
    Fire Prism (holofields)
    1850

    GAME ONE, vs Necrons
    Capture and Control, Spearhead deployment

    He brought 40 Warriors, 2 Monoliths, 2 Heavy Destroyers, 10 Flayed Ones, a Lord and a Destroyer Lord. This guy thought he was the man, and he fought me tooth and nail on so many rules, such as trying to fire his flux arc and particle whip on the same turn.
    Fire Prisms were golden in this game! One linked dispersed shot destroyed 13 Necrons, which was awesome.
    My Wraithlord assaulted a big Warrior unit, killed one, broke the unit, and swept them! Sweet. Then the Banshees killed the Destroyer lord without breaking a sweat.
    My opponent had my troops closing in on him from literally every direction, and I held his objective and my own. He conceded on the top of turn 3.

    GAME TWO vs Imperial Guard
    Seize Ground, Pitched Battle deployment

    This was actually my uncles army, and we usually have some good games. I hadnt used my Eldar against him though. He brought a good deal of heavy weapons, some conscripts, a Russ, demolisher, hellhound, and basilisk. There were also a few squads in Chimeras. The game was very hard fought. One funny part was when my Dragons blew up his Russ. The basilisk was hiding directly behind it, and shot directly at my men! 8 were killed :0 Its ok though, my melta bombs took care of it and later the exarch flamed the guardsmen off of one of the three objectives.
    The banshees killed and inquisitor and retinue, but then got toasted by 4 flamers and some lasguns.
    My Dire Avengers did a good job in this game. One squad had their Serpent blown up, and 5 died in the explosion. They proceeded to run out, blast the veterans that destroyed their ride, causing them to fall back. Then they shot another squad, assaulted them, and swept them, and were now holding an objective in cover. Those 5 men then survived shooting from an Inquisitorial stormtrooper squad, 2 multilasers and 2 heavy bolters. I was proud. Too bad the hellhound decided to help out...
    On the last turn, my other DA squad's serpent boosted to claim an objective, a weaponless Fire Prism contested another, and an empty Serpent tank shocked a conscript mob off of the last objective. Victory! Great game too.

    GAME THREE vs Space Marines
    Annihilation, Dawn of War deployment.

    He brought a terminator Librarian, 10 terminators carrying an assault cannon and cyclone launcher, tac squad with lascannon, tac squad with multi-melta, 2 attack bikes with heavy bolters, 10 Vanguard in a rhino, 5 scouts with sniper rifles and a heavy bolter, and a 5 man assault squad.
    One of the weirdest things in the tournament happened here. I told my opponent about Runes of Warding, and so he didnt attempt a single psychic power all game....
    I chose to go second and deployed nothing (using the denial technique, seems we're all on the same page. He had to stagger his men across the board, which definitely worked against him), then flew out and quickly got a KP on the scouts. Night fight prevented much else on that turn.
    On turn two, he shot my Banshee Serpent with a plasma cannon, and it exploded! Quite the lucky shot. Then the girls got pretty torn up, but three or four were left. His terminators also deep struck near my banshees and dragons. On my end of the turn, I lobbed a Prism shot at the terminators, and threw my Dragons at them. Two still stood! Unfortunately my banshees had failed their Pinning check. The terminators shot back. The Dragons failed their Leadership check, which was nice as it kept me out of assault range and barely on the table. I shot back after rallying with the exarch and at least four other Dragons. That damned assault cannon man wouldnt go down! He shot more and assaulted me. Due to some lucky rolling and general Eldar awesomeness, my Exarch went toe to toe with the big guy for around three turns of combat. Eventually he put two wounds on him, and he failed one armor save! The exarch then scurried back inside his immobilized Wave Serpent to hide for the remainder of the battle. I was so psyched about that, it was hilarious. Maybe it was because I had spent around seven hours painting the exarch on Wednesday...
    Oh and I killed all 10 Vanguard in one linked Prism shot!!! They had just disembarked from their Rhino. That was gorgeous.
    I ended up winning that game 8-4

    So it was a really good day for the Eldar! I played some tough armies and learned a lot.
    My MVPs were either the Fire Prisms or the Fire Dragon Exarch. Come to think of it, the Banshees and Avengers were clutch as well, and so was the Wraithlord...
    AngryAngel: May the coming year give the dark angels..only victory..in the emperors name. As well may Thomas Tillington fist all who dare oppose him.

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  9. #849
    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Man! Those are some awesome reports! Great job!

    And I'll point out as well, that if you look at the types of armies you played, I'd say that those were some of the best armies suited to the objectives you were playing. Necrons being so resilient, and yet having an uncanny mobility (especially if they DS the second Monolith on your side), are amazingly good at the Capture and Control. Guard having so many Troops, as well as Tanks to really roll you over, I think are great for the Seize Ground style battle, while Space Marines being durable, having extremely tough units like Terminators, and a high kill potential are great for Kill Points. Yet you handled all of them, and well at that. So good job man!

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok

    P.S. Also, I'm very interested in how you play a Wraithlord in an all-mechanized list, especially with no seer to hold his hand...
    To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
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  10. #850
    Chapter Master deathwing_marine's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Thanks man! Yeah, there were some tough armies there. My cousin brought 3 monoliths, a destroyer lord, and 50-odd necron warriors. He placed second, defeating a Marine force and a pretty weak Dark Eldar list, and just barely losing to the Marine player I beat.

    For the Wraithlord, I almost always deploy him within 6 inches of the Wave Serpent the Farseer is riding in, so I don't have to worry about Wraithsight on turn one. Most of the time that Wave Serpent is the one with a Bright Lance carrying Dire Avengers, and I don't use it as aggressively as the other three transports. Sometimes they stick together during the battle. Sometimes the Farseer is in one of the scatter laser/shuriken cannon Serpents, and something I do a lot (in the correct situation) is move 6 inches and fire every weapon until its time to strike with the Aspect Warriors. So they kind of follow each other around.
    Maybe around 25% of the time I risk the Wraithsight...
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  11. #851
    Chapter Master Your Mum Rang's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Dweomer, I am building an army to make use of Reserves. At 1750 it looks like this:

    2 x Autarch w/ Mandiblasters + Jetbike + Laser Lance
    5 Shining Spears w/ Exarch + Withdraw
    3 x 10 Dire Avengers w/ Dual-Cat Exarch + Bladestorm
    in
    3 x Wave Serpent w/ Brightlances + Spirit Stones
    3 Jetbikes w/ Shuricanon
    6 Fire Dragons w/ Flamer Exarch + Crack Shot
    in
    Falcon w/ EML + Stones + Holo Field
    I have good anti infantry, great anti tank and anti-MEQ/TEQ. I start everything in reserve and with the possible +2 I can choose who comes in with a great deal of accuracy. If I can, I keep the small Jetbikes til later on as they are a cheap, fragile scoring unit. Yet to try it but it could work!
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  12. #852

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    well done in that tournament, you did the eldar proud!

    your list has got me thinking seriously of taking a pair of fire prisms myself. i don't have any at the moment and my heavy support slots are really thin. they seem pretty versatile in that they can blast away hordes and against meqs they can link their shots. i've also been still been thinking about taking a full unit of fire dragons rather than just 5 or 6. interesting results with your banshees there dude, i have personally dropped mine for some harlies. just like the sense of freedom they give when you move them protected by VOT + fleet + ignore cover + hit and run, etc.

    so speaking of harlies, i still think they are legitimate unit, just harder to use. the thing is you don't actually want them to charge and wipe out a unit outright as that will leave them vulnerable to shooting. you want them to either leave a few models alive and 'hugging them' till the next turn or hitting and running, hopefully getting somewhere safe. i have read almost nothing about harlies in 5th ed, everyone just assumes they are not worth taking at all. rending was overpowered in 4th ed in my humble opinion. harlies are still legit., just not an invincible uber unit. they seem alot more similar to scorpions than banshees. both have ST 4 on the charge and a exarch with a power weapon. they are also about the same cost, only the armour saves that are different. i say this because i had to correct the comparison i made between harlies on foot and banshees in a wave serpent. they are really not that similar at all.

    there is so much potential to designing army lists to start in reserves for eldar, it's insane.
    Last edited by darkened sun; 27-10-2008 at 12:37.
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  13. #853

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    GOod to see some reports... though hehehehe... your gonna be angry about this... turns out if you mail GW they will send you a mail allowing the arc flux and the monolith weapons to be fired on the same turn. Some real angry comments flying here due to the whole moving 6 inches and all.

    Infact you can now deep strike and shoot with your monolith O.o!!!! (long winded argument I don't wanna write out here)

    Hmmmm I'm gonna try out some Mech whipeout this weekend :P
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  14. #854
    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Well since we're on the topic of Reserves list, here is the list I plan to use for a while (with proxies sadly...).

    Autarch: /w power weapon, fusion gun, and mandiblasters: 100 pts
    Autarch: /w power weapon, fusion gun, and mandiblasters: 100 pts

    Striking Scorpions (10): /w exarch, /w scorpions claw, shadowstrike, and stalker: 212 pts
    Howling Banshees (10): /w exarch, /w executioner, and acrobatics: 187 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts
    Fire Dragons (8): /w exarch, /w dragons breath flamer, and crack shot: 145 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts

    Dire Avengers (10): /w exarch, /w power weapon and shimmershield, defend, and bladestorm: 177 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts
    Dire Avengers (10): /w exarch, /w power weapon and shimmershield, defend, and bladestorm: 177 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts

    Warwalkers (2): /w 2x Eldar missile launchers: 140 pts
    Fire Prism: /w holofield, and spirit stone: 160 pts
    Fire Prism: /w holofield, and spirit stone: 160 pts

    Total Points: 1998 pts
    Total Models: 50 infantry, 6 tanks, and 2 walkers

    This list however, will be making use of Outflankers as well as normal Mechanized Reserves Units. The Outflanking elements would be the Walkers and the Scorpions, who will hopefully cover each others weaknesses.

    I'll let you know how the playtesting goes.

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok
    To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
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  15. #855
    Commander incarna's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    My reading comprehension skills must need some honing… so, I guess I didn’t realize the 4+ SMF save could be fortuned – it makes me extremely happy to discover this and I thank those of you who answered my question. Now, if you don’t mind, I have a couple more…

    1. I’m hearing a lot about how Autarchs can make whole armies start in reserve. How is this possible? I have to be missing something in either Codex Eldar or the main rulebook.

    2. Does a Dire Avenger Exarch with 2 shuriken catapults get 2 attacks (as per his profile) or 3 attacks (for having a second weapon) in close combat?
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  16. #856

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    1. I’m hearing a lot about how Autarchs can make whole armies start in reserve. How is this possible? I have to be missing something in either Codex Eldar or the main rulebook.
    1. It's in the main rulebook. All standard missions allow everyone to start in reserves.

    The reason for Autarchs is they increase the reliability of your reserves so you're less of a victim to dice.

    2. The DA Exarch 2 Catapult is a single weapon. Even then, Shuriken Catapults are two-handed weapons (rifle types) so he doesn't get a bonus attack. He gets his profile attacks.
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  17. #857

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    I'm looking at the following 1500 list. Unfortunately college took a turn for the worst so I won't have it any time soon so I have to go play some Dawn of war tourneys and maybe some other and win some discounts.. *sigh*

    I managed to proxy this against an ork army though and it actually made a whipe out. I unfortunately can't say how good the player was though as I don't normally vs ork.

    HQ - 73

    Autarch - Dire Cat 73

    Elites 558

    Fire Dragons x 10 - Ex - dragons breath – crack shot = 177
    - Wserph - S.Stones - ShuriCan = 110
    Fire Dragons x 9 - Ex - dragons breath – crack shot = 161
    - Wserph - S.Stones - ShuriCan = 110

    Troops 524

    D.Avenger x 10 - Ex - Dual S.Cat - B.Storm = 152
    - Wserph - S.Stones - ShuriCan = 110
    D.Avenger x 10 - Ex - Dual S.Cat - B.Storm = 152
    - Wserph - S.Stones - ShuriCan = 110

    Heavy Support 345

    Fire prism = 115
    Fire prism = 115
    Fire prism = 115
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  18. #858
    Chapter Master Stezerok's Avatar
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
    1. It's in the main rulebook. All standard missions allow everyone to start in reserves.

    The reason for Autarchs is they increase the reliability of your reserves so you're less of a victim to dice.

    2. The DA Exarch 2 Catapult is a single weapon. Even then, Shuriken Catapults are two-handed weapons (rifle types) so he doesn't get a bonus attack. He gets his profile attacks.
    Poseidal is right on both accounts.

    Also something to keep in mind for the Autarchs and their reserves bonus, is that because you get to decide what bonus you want to apply to your reserve roll, this means you have much greater flexibility over what you want to come on when, rather than just having a 5/6 chance for all of your guys. An example:

    Lets say, with my list, I see that after I apply both my Autarchs bonuses to my Howling Banshees I botch it up, and roll a 1. Well now my plan of having a cohesive alpha strike, hinging on my Banshees is pretty much gone for this round. So I can choose then to not use the bonus on any of my other units, in a hope I'll roll badly again to keep all of my units together. It's not something I'd suggest often, but it is a viable decision. Such a decision I would probably more likely use on my Outflankers, choosing not to have one come in if the other can't.

    Another example would be if I saw that my opponent was playing solely to hunt down my troops. I can just tell from his playstyle and his army list. So, I can decide to have all of my units get the +2 bonus to Reserve, with the exception of my Dire Avengers, in a hopes to keep my Dire Avengers out of the fray and safe from harms way.

    These are just a couple of examples of Reserves manipulation that I can do in order to protect my units and my battleplan.

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok
    To the righteous we bring hope, to the tainted we bring fire." Castellan Garran Crowe
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  19. #859
    Chapter Master Irisado's Avatar
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    Nov 2007
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    Nottingham, UK
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    6,898

    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Thanks for those reports Deathwing Marine.

    I think that you have practically perfected the art of using mechanised Eldar to defeat any army. I think your tactics were spot on in all three games.

    Funnily enough, my Fire Dragon Exarch once held up Ulric the Slayer on close combat for three turns, so maybe there is something about Fire Dragon Exarchs that we have overlooked.....

    Reserve lists do seem to be becoming 'la moda' of late, especially in light of the new Space Marines Codex, which I have yet to face. I'm concerned that the way Space Marine players are making use of the Drop Pod Assault rules is going to force Eldar players to create more reserve type lists, and since reserve lists don't suit my playing style at all I'm somewhat concerned. Has anyone tried fighting against the Marines Drop Pod Assault tactic without using a reserves list?
    Visit 40K Online for all your 40K needs.

    Sońando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente.
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  20. #860
    Chapter Master deathwing_marine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Boston
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    Re: V5.0 Eldar Tactica

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
    GOod to see some reports... though hehehehe... your gonna be angry about this... turns out if you mail GW they will send you a mail allowing the arc flux and the monolith weapons to be fired on the same turn. Some real angry comments flying here due to the whole moving 6 inches and all.
    We used the FAQ which said you couldn't fire both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stezerok View Post
    Well since we're on the topic of Reserves list, here is the list I plan to use for a while (with proxies sadly...).

    Autarch: /w power weapon, fusion gun, and mandiblasters: 100 pts
    Autarch: /w power weapon, fusion gun, and mandiblasters: 100 pts

    Striking Scorpions (10): /w exarch, /w scorpions claw, shadowstrike, and stalker: 212 pts
    Howling Banshees (10): /w exarch, /w executioner, and acrobatics: 187 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts
    Fire Dragons (8): /w exarch, /w dragons breath flamer, and crack shot: 145 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts

    Dire Avengers (10): /w exarch, /w power weapon and shimmershield, defend, and bladestorm: 177 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts
    Dire Avengers (10): /w exarch, /w power weapon and shimmershield, defend, and bladestorm: 177 pts
    Waveserpent: /w twin-linked shuriken cannons, and spirit stone: 110 pts

    Warwalkers (2): /w 2x Eldar missile launchers: 140 pts
    Fire Prism: /w holofield, and spirit stone: 160 pts
    Fire Prism: /w holofield, and spirit stone: 160 pts

    Total Points: 1998 pts
    Total Models: 50 infantry, 6 tanks, and 2 walkers

    This list however, will be making use of Outflankers as well as normal Mechanized Reserves Units. The Outflanking elements would be the Walkers and the Scorpions, who will hopefully cover each others weaknesses.

    I'll let you know how the playtesting goes.

    Good Hunting,
    -Stezerok
    That list looks cool Stezerok, make sure to tell us how the games go. I've been a little reluctant to try the two Autarchs because I love how Doom and Fortune have worked for me. Glad to see you went with the Dragons Breath and Crack Shot on your Dragon Exarch

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisado View Post
    Thanks for those reports Deathwing Marine.

    I think that you have practically perfected the art of using mechanised Eldar to defeat any army. I think your tactics were spot on in all three games.

    Funnily enough, my Fire Dragon Exarch once held up Ulric the Slayer on close combat for three turns, so maybe there is something about Fire Dragon Exarchs that we have overlooked.....

    Reserve lists do seem to be becoming 'la moda' of late, especially in light of the new Space Marines Codex, which I have yet to face. I'm concerned that the way Space Marine players are making use of the Drop Pod Assault rules is going to force Eldar players to create more reserve type lists, and since reserve lists don't suit my playing style at all I'm somewhat concerned. Has anyone tried fighting against the Marines Drop Pod Assault tactic without using a reserves list?
    Wow, I'm honored to receive a compliment like that, especially from you Irisado. Thanks!

    Little known fact: Fire Dragon Exarchs are the Eldar's greatest hand to hand fighters. Its the P.F.O.D. (Pointy Finger Of Doom), nothing can withstand an Eldar with such a badass pose

    No one I have faced has really utilized the new Drop Pod Assault, which is surprising due to the amount of Marine players around here.
    AngryAngel: May the coming year give the dark angels..only victory..in the emperors name. As well may Thomas Tillington fist all who dare oppose him.

    Battle Reports: Craftworld Eldar

    Progect Log: The Kabal of Dusk's Embrace -
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