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Thread: [Tactica] Blood Angels

  1. #1
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Angry [Tactica] Blood Angels

    TACTICA
    SPACE MARINES : BLOOD ANGELS
    WARHAMMER 40,000 - CODEX WD CA V4


    First words :
    I know V5 is not out, but we gathered enough infos for me to work on this tactica.
    Since an edit is always possible, I stay tuned for any incoherency once the book is in our hands.

    This tactica is using the White Dwarf Blood Angels codex.

    The news from V5 that changed things in playing a Blood Angels army :
    -Covers, covers, covers ! We all need now to get those cover saves, even for vehicles !
    -Space Marines can now run.
    -Power fists don't give a +1 attack anymore with another weapon.
    -After close combat, there is no more way of engaging another unit.
    -AP and rending weapons are less powerful because of multiplication of covers and other rules changes.
    -Independant caracters are now directly hittable in CC.

    UNITS :

    TRANSPORT :
    -Blood Angels Rhino :
    There is still no more Rhino rush, but this tank got an important role, moving cover !
    The reinforced armour is imperative for this.
    Empty or not, it must go at full speed to create secured moving and shooting spaces.
    You need it to transport troops too, since they are more important than before.
    It's 55 points a moving cover, but imperative !!!

    -Razorback :
    A calimero, that's what it is !
    No boosted engines, a wobbly 6 transport slots and weapons that have low chances to get used...
    In fluff, it's mainly use by command squads, and it seems that's even for this role, it doesn't suits.

    -Drop pods :
    I have no experience with them, but I think it's the worst transport available.
    The lack of "assault vehicle" rule makes it just a spawing cover, transporting a dreadnought eventually...But is it useful ?
    It can to some extend be used to get an objective later in the game.

    HQ :
    -Dante :
    Lord Blood Angels is always doing what he know best, blasting everything !
    Too expensive for regular games, he is a great commander for big games !
    Chapter banner is unavoidable.
    Stay alert of using all his skills in the game, that makes him powerful.

    -Mephiston :
    The eternal serial killer just got nerfed (not so much in fact) !
    7-9 attacks a round, great caracs.
    Wait, But, uh oh...No invincible armour and can be directly hit in CC !
    This man will do great against major part of the units, but beware of special weapons in CC !

    -Lemartes :
    He is like a medecine, morning, afternoon and evening !
    Why play a stuffed chaplain for 120 points when you can have a better one at 125 ?
    He gives a -1 Lt on CC result, it may make the difference too !
    Orgasmic !

    -Corbulo :
    In a standard format, it can be dangerous not having a captain for Lt purposes in the army, so Corbulo can be a dangerous choice.
    Leading the Death company is useless since he would give them skills they already have !
    He is an alternative to a captain, replacing Lt skill by adding attacks arround.
    He gained in a happy way a 4+ invincible save that doesn't count as an Iron halo by the way !

    -Tycho :
    A fluffy one, he has been so much nerfed !
    No power weapon, one use melta...We would have preferred him to keep his digilasers and a permanent weapon, even if his cost were higher !

    -Chaplain :
    If you prefer a custom one to Lemartes, it's the must have of your army !
    A great CC fighter and skills that gives a blast with DC.
    (Even if DC have already no fear, they reroll dices to hit when assaulting with him !!!)

    -Archivist :
    The sad clown, Mephiston just gives him headaches !
    The wing spell is not really good if he his in a unit and the wrath is D3...
    His weakness comes from BA spells, that are not fearful.

    -Captain :
    The classic second HQ choice for BA, good fighter, he gives a good Lt to all the army.
    Flying or not, with fist/power weapon or claws, he is all good !
    Don't overstuff him, since he can be taken out in CC in early battle !

    -Honour guard (no slot) :
    How to get a free elite slot ! ^^
    See Assault veterans for base.
    Priest is great !
    Techno-adept is cool, with his 2+ save, but high price and unused repair skill must make you think about it.
    Standard bearer is great if you have no captain in your army.
    Company champion can be cool, but since he pays 5 points more for his shield, keep him only if you want more power weapons.

    ELITE :
    -Death Company (no slot) :
    They are the way to recognize a Blood Angels army...Those fearful black rage crazy warriors !
    Rending attacks, furious charge...They are a nightmare for other players, it's not a surprise to see some using all their firepower on this lone unit !
    Feel no pain gives them a great durability !
    It's not useful having 10 of them in the unit (they are too expensive), but a good army list must already give at least 5 of them freely !
    The fact that feel no pain and rending have been nerfed kills a little the interest of paying for these men, but they remain the stronger assault squad !

    -Terminators :
    Standard version :
    5 by squad with only one heavy weapon is a nerfing blast.
    The 2+ save is not so important anymore since cover saves will be often used (or the 5+).
    This unit got devastated by V5.
    We could think that a drop pod spawning, followed by some shrapnell talk would be enough to get them interesting, but for this price, a land raider is a better buy !

    Hand to hand version :
    A little better, but only if you have a Land raider to transport them and make them charge !
    Then why not a crusader with a powerful captain to help them

    The deep strike, drop pods or simple walk are too wobbly to guarantee they'll do good things in a game...

    -Furioso Dreadnought :
    The fun unit in the army, he is always played for a humour reason because he is too aleatory.
    He can be interesting in little format, but since the table gets bigger, a drop pod becomes imperative and then price/efficiency can be discussed...
    Options can be violent, but it's already expensive.
    It shouldn't cost 200 points drop pod included, avoid getting it DC+Venerable+armour+flame thrower etc...
    Since it can run in shooting phase, he got more interest than before !

    -Dreadnought :
    Can't really be a moving cover for troops, not as tough as a tank.
    The missile/laser version can still be violent in a table border use, but the other versions should need to skip shooting to run a little and get max efficiency.

    -Techmarine (no slot) :
    Great looking, but unplayed...It's a very fluffy one, but between points cost and the limited number of tanks in a BA army, it's not very useful !
    It's sad, because we would like to see him wander the land with his servitors in his razorback, searching for allies needing help.
    Thought he would be good in kicking asses too !

    -Assault veterans :
    You play none ? You chose the wrong army ! ^^
    Don't be to heavy on upgrades on this one, even if it's the stronger and most useful unit in the army !
    The best is playing two squads of 6-8 men, rather than a overstuffed one that could do a sad encounter with a wandering ordnance template...
    You must do everything to keep them alive !
    Even if it means for them not to assault as soon as possible.
    Don't forget that killing a priority aim is not everything, there will be a shooting phase after it !
    Try to always contact two ennemy units with it to make them long.

    Two version available :

    Full CC : For small games, one fist/hammer and two power weapons. For surviving purpose give the special weapons shields.

    Full power : Adding two melta I.E. to the previous squad.

    -scouts :
    And thou shall suxx hard, so nerfing will look nice aside !
    Yeah it could be worse than just not having a 3+ save and giving no DC marine...Like having an expensive veteran sergeant, sniper weapons that hits on 3+ and an inoperative status for missions !
    I'm just deeply sad for scouts, they have been my strike force in V3, went badder but still playable in V4, but now it would be just a bad choice...

    TROOPS :
    -Assault squad :
    In a small-medium game, it's better to take veterans first.
    Assault squads are for thematic armies, but usually ends with no jump pack and gains a rhino, for moving covers purposes...
    Since they move badder in this mode, they are less polyvalent than a tactic squad, able to hold a position with shooting.
    In bigger formats, with jump packs, they are a regular good choice !

    -Tactical squad :
    To please fluff lovers, they became a must have !

    The light sauce : 5 Marines, 1 special weapon and a rhino w/ reinforced armour.

    The spiced sauce : 10 Marines divided in two squads, 1 special weapon and a rhino.

    The not digest sauce : 10 Marines, a special weapon, 0-1 heavy weapon and a rhino.
    This one is not really good since, it will hide less easily and will perform just a little better than 5 men.

    FAST ATTACK :
    -Bikes :
    Hit and run unit, I don't know how efficient they really are.
    Big moves and twin linked bolters can make them devastate troops.
    Sadly, we cannot add an assault bike anymore to this unit.

    -Assault bikes :
    A must have, take your multi-melta, go straight, melt, repeat if necessary !
    Prefered to Land speeders for surviving reasons, they are loved by BA players.
    Usually individual, they can act as a squadron if slots are lacking.
    The Bolter variant is playable, but there are better choices for anti-troops units.

    -Land speeders :
    Thought they have a great wargear, Speeders are too fragile to be used usually.
    As soon as they stop for shooting, they are dead meat

    Anti-troops : Heavy Bolter & Assault Canon, my favorite !
    Just run, hide, then get out to make a hole in a squad !

    Anti-light vehicles : Multi-Melta & Heavy flammer

    Sadly, once fired, the speeder can be taken down with a force 4 weapon !
    It means you have to eliminate all dangers before using it...(like charging units that could fire it).

    SUPPORT :
    -Devastators :
    If there isn't enough tanks in the army, those are important.
    Each player have favorite weapons selection.
    Three sauces again :

    Spicy : 5 Marines, 4 heavy weapons, no thinking.

    Fine sauce : 10 Marines, two squads, 4 heavy weapons and a rhino.

    HP Sauce : 10 Marines, one squad, 4 heavy weapons and a rhino.
    Marines are just HP for heavy weapons and the rhino goes ball-trapping with ennemy.
    Not recommended.

    Think of heavy plasmas !!! Yes get hot! is dangerous, but that will be a rain of blast templates, a new game : "touched=killed"

    -Land raider :
    No need to introduce it, it does it well !
    Not really playable in 1500 points games, but on bigger games it's a great one !
    Devastating and hard to destroy (beware of spears thought).
    Trying to hide it a little will ofter result in an unusable side laser.
    But in an assault tactic, think that the spirit of the machine will let you fire with CT2 when you advance with it !

    -Land raider crusader :
    Idem, but going forward with a stuffed CC unit inside is imperative !

    -Whirlwind :
    A must against IG, Eldars and Taus, less against the others.
    Beware of the 2-12" moving template, don't fire near your troops !
    The major advantage of this unit is that it can do all the game behind a wall without seeing the battle (lucky it)

    -Predator :
    With the new damage table, making him more resistant, it comes back in force !
    The Baal is better for anti-troops purposes, but the remaining version is great : THE ANNIHILATOR (looking good eh eh).
    3 laser canons (one is twin-linked).
    Because of cover needs, one sponson can do all the game without firing, but since this vehicle does holes in anything, it's a pleasure to pay the price !
    New condition of shooting kills a little this tank, it must remain stationnary to shoot everything it has, on 6", only one weapon firing.
    That's why I personnaly play a static annihilator.

    -Vindicator :
    Again a calimero, liking it or hating it !
    In the V5, we just multiply buildings and covers, to avoid one turn battles, so they got interest ! They can hope to be in range one day
    They can hide from a part of the ennemy army while firing a devastating blast on a unit !
    Thought, the canon is so powerful, that you'll have to always check that none of your marines are nearby, because nothing survives it ! (thought the dispersion should be 0-8 inches, with an average of 3")
    It's an expensive tank, and it gathers ennemy's fire, don't lose it in early game or it will be a heavy handicap !
    For good tacticians only !

    -Predator Baal :
    At least one by BA army is well known (never forget sponson bolters).
    Now more resistant, always lethal for troops (with a storm bolter, it's 12 shots, 4 rending ones !).
    With the wound allocation before saving throws, this tank will give money back, nasty nasty ! ^^
    Yes, 150 points, but well played, it will kill more than this !
    You are allowed to play two of them
    Beware of not killing minis you were about to charge with another unit, simultaneous attack, yes, drama, no !

    TACTICS :

    Think before every shooting that ennemy can remove minis that are in range for assault, don't fire systematically !

    Blood Angels are a CC army, but you still need heavy weapons, with V5 you must ballance it all.
    We say farewell to all on foot armies, for more conventionnal tactics, plus the covers.

    Don't forget to use smoke launchers with your vehicles !
    You'll need them on turn one to avoid losing half of your army in the shooting phase.

    In first line, we get Rhinos as moving bunkers.
    Second line are assault troops.
    Then we have support, second halves of squads, etc...

    True LOS demands to patiently check that Rhinos are well placed, for shooting and not getting shot purposes.

    On turn two, we should find rhinos and tactical squads in a good shooting position (maximum cover).
    Assault squads, bikes, etc, goes throught and attack their aim.
    Support continues trying to destroy anything prior/dangerous/in LOS.

    Thought we get lot of work removing casualties and check assault units are always locked in combat, we will check if tactical squads needs to enter the CC, while support fires again.

    What we get tactically, is that static second half of the units can become useless, so there is no use playing loads.
    But we're allowed to move them, even if a running turn can be a handicap !

    Currently, a typical V5 Army list contains :

    1500 points
    -Lemartes-Chaplain
    -Death company
    -Assault veterans
    -Assault veterans
    -Tactical squad
    -Tactical squad
    -Assault bike MM
    -Assault bike MM
    -Predator Baal

    Your turn ^^!
    Last edited by Lax; 03-07-2008 at 07:17.

  2. #2
    Brother Sergeant DOS's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Another BA Tactica thread? It's very pretty so I'll have my say, I too am interested in how our army will function in 5th.

    Tactics: Two major ways to play BA come 5th; as a screened assault force with mobile firepower or as a mobile marine firepower force with counter assault elements. (Combat>Shooting / Shooting>Combat - either way it needs to have a degree of power in both elements). Gun lines and pure assault forces are not viable and will rarely win.

    The FOC breakdown:

    Transport
    -Rhino: Agreed; extra armour is rather essential to keep it moving when under fire, especially considering that on a 1 we blow out the engines and can't move anyway. The 18' move is needed to keep the wall between the enemy guns/ cc specialists and our running jump/foot infantry.
    -Razorback: Not fast enough, not a great gunship. It's decent in smaller games for the cheap heavy weapon but in larger games the speedy rhino screen takes preference for me.
    -Drop pods: Some builds love these, but only against certain opponents. Dropping something nasty to divert attention away from the vehicle screen can work but it is very unlikely to last long without support and spending points here detracts from the rest of the force I feel. Advise spending points on screening transports, marine units are not sacrificial

    HQ
    -Dante: 2000 and up, in honour guard no question about it, best with Corbulo for Furious Charge (more on this later).
    -Mephiston: The beast incarnate, a pity there are far too many CC beasts in 40k that can swat our lord of death. A gamble, oh but what a gamble! The psychic hood is excellent at Ld10 - not to be underestimated.
    -Lemartes: Can't go wrong with Lemartes; ever.
    -Corbulo: Quite literally the soul of the BA, he bestows the old FC trait that was lost come the new codex, to all BA within 12'. The way I like my Corbulo is in a Land Raider Crusader with Assault terminators, bestowing FC to them and to the jump pack infantry ready to leap frog the tank screen for a devastating mass assault (as per the 5th trial rule I have, if any transported models have abilities that function within a certain range, it is measured from the vehicle's hull) also effectively increasing the 12' distance when transported. He is perfect in BA armies that are weighted towards assault with multiple assault elements to take advantage of FC.
    -Librarians and Tycho: No, just no.
    -Chaplains: If you want one on foot or have issues with Lemartes, powerfists not recommended. Running two cheap chaplains gives two assault units good capabilities.
    -Honourguard: As Lax said. A must with Dante.

    ELITES
    -Death Company: Controlling them is a must. I strongly recommend putting them in jump packs for speedy assaults. They should be accompanied by a chaplain or screened by a transport containing one or Corbulo.
    -Terminators: Standard; don't care for them. Assault version; I would field with LCs and Corbulo in a LRC or with TH/SS in a Land Raider. I don't recommend running them behind a screen or drop pod/ deep striking them.
    -Furioso: Great deterrent to assaulters, a land raider screen could work with a running dread, especially if its DC and the land raider contains a chaplain/ Corbulo. Best used to tie up units that can't injure it or rip the heart out of any non-monstrous creature/ special character/ anti tank specialist provided you can keep the guns off it. Venerable upgrade significantly helps it.
    -Dreadnought: There are better gun platforms and better assaulters. A good shooting/ counter assault element in a predominantly shooting based army.
    -Techmarine: Only if we get that pretty Thunderfire cannon and then again only in a fire power based BA list.
    -Veteran Assault Squad: Our prime elite choice but often not well utilized. So what do we do with it? If Corbulo is in the list a few power weapons can't go wrong in a 6 man strong unit to keep it cheap. An excellent load out for any list is 2 plasma guns and 3 combi-plasma weapons with 6-8 men. There are better anti-tank units for this cost but if you must, a unit with 2 meltaguns and a thunderhammer with melta bombs does the trick. If going for an assaut element with the veterans keep them in jump packs, other wise one may opt for the rhino. I prefer to keep the unit's function precise to keep the point cost down.

    TROOPS
    -Assault Squad: 5 man with a power weapon/fist weilding sergeant can work but troops give a good opportunity to purchase rhinos for our screen and assault marines do not work well in these. Plasma pistols are not worth it. The humble bolter is my weapon of choice for troops; all marine lists need this basic element of fire power.
    -Tactical Squad: Since I'm spending points here I like to invest a tad more to get better bang for my buck. A good load out come 5th appears to be power weapon sergeant, plasma gun, plasma cannon, rhino if the blast weapon rules prove true. Rapid fire weapons and rhinos love eachother, as will the jump pack troops that charge into thinned ranks.

    FAST ATTACK
    -Bikes: Poor choice for the BA in my opinion.
    -Attack Bikes: The best anti-tank unit in the army. Never leave home without 2 multi-melta attack bikes.
    -Land Speeders: In 5th, with the new skimmer rules and amendments to rending these do not cut it for me.

    HEAVY SUPPORT (Oh how I love this FOC section)
    -Devestators: Static firepower - better with True LOS, worse with the realisation of true LOS and regular use of cover/ screens. You should have your fair share of plasma love from other selections and anti-tank love from your attack bikes. Combat squads and devestator weapon pairs work excellently in a weighted firepower list but in other lists lanes of fire can be limited with your own transports. Devestators can create no mans land lanes of fire whilst your men advance in other sections of the board but the force is split up in doing this and it can result in an army thats weaker overall. Mobility is essential in 5th and this should be considered when selecting heavy support.
    -Land Raider: Only would I field this if I had assault terminators in the list. A normal raider with TH/SS terminators or a LRC with Corbulo and LC terminators appear to be effective builds. Only used in games of 1500 or more.
    -Whirlwind: Great vs certain armies, poor against others. Too static for a BA list in my opinion.
    -Predator: Lascannon preds are quite expensive. That being said it's the cheapest way to get some lascannon shots into the list and it's still more mobile and cheaper than devestators. Your call on whether its worth it though a lascannon loaded pred, a BAAL and a vindicator could go a long way. Destructors are nice and cheap but the BAAL is a better choice as it is loaded out with Over charged engines making it and the Land raider (assuming we get the new codex marine machine spirit amendments) the only tanks in our list able to move 6' and unleash hell. That is apart from ...
    -Vindicator: Oh how I love thee. With S10 Ordnance pie plate, the options open up. Presenting this nasty to the opponent will attract fire from the many rhinos and even the land raider to no end. With a front AV of 13 flanked by other tanks its hard to crack. Once assault is launched feel free to decimate the part of the opponents line which is lacking attention (provided that the tank survives that long - a miracle to be sure). Powerful and somewhat mobile, I field at least one in 1500pts. Remember that the demolisher cannon has a 45 degree fire arc. It's possible to Screen with terrain or rhinos.
    -BAAL Predator: Our anti-infantry weapon of choice. Shreds armour of 4+ or worse to no end. Over charged engines make it a bargain. Use at least one.


    Some general rules that I like to follow:
    -All infantry units have transports provided they do not have jump packs
    -Keep the DC controllable
    -Have a decent amount of vehicles to screen with
    -You need tactical marines (scoring)
    -You need bikes with multi-meltas (anti-tank)
    -You need a BAAL predator (anti hoard)
    -The DC should not be the only assault element in any list from 1500pts
    -Screen all jump infantry with cover or vehicles (carefully - true LOS)
    -Go easy on expensive unit upgrades, keep it cheap, keep it many
    -Keep the mission objective in mind
    -Vehicle screen doesn't mean vehicles don't need screening themselves
    -With the new wound allocation method, ICs and specialists can be either more or less vulnerable
    Last edited by DOS; 24-06-2008 at 13:03.
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  3. #3
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    Don't forget to take smoke launchers on every vehicle !
    You'll need them on turn one to avoid losing half of your army in the shooting phase.
    all the vehicals in the codex come with smoke launchers and search lights here is the link for the codex you can go and print out the whole thing.

    http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...19&aId=7000010

    oh yeah i wanted to toss my list up here and see what you other BA players think as i haven't bought the pieces yet, just been throwing around lists for the last few days but gonna order the army VERY soon.

    HQ
    1x Mephiston(i am not sure yet whether i will have him in a squad or running by him self using rhinos and other squads as screens. i think he can survive by himself with the FnP rule and toughnes 5 will make him not able to be one shotted)
    1x BA chappy( i didn't take lemartes so i could give the chappy melta bombs in case i needed to take out a vehical)

    troops
    10x tac marines
    1x missile launcher
    mounted in rhino

    10x tac marines
    1x missile launcher
    mounted in rhino

    5x tac marines
    1x las cannon

    elites
    6 x death company(1 purchased)
    6x jump packs

    8x vet assault marines
    3x power weapons
    1x melta bombs

    8x vet assault marines
    3x power weapons
    1x melta bombs

    Heavy support
    2x baal preds
    2x either HF or HB(not sure which i would like better yet with the new 5th cover saves all over the flamers could be hella useful.)

  4. #4
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    That's a nice list, but here is what I recommand to you (only my thought) :
    -Drop the laser in the third tactical or make it a devastator squad.
    -Take an assault bike with MM, minimum.
    -For baals I find the template too short, go for bolters
    -A fist in the vets can be good !
    -Too much vets in squad maybe
    -Mephiston is great, but has no invincible save in hand to hand and will die in a second if you're unlucky or charging tough stuff
    You could go for Corbulo in a CC squad, he has a 4+ invincible save and is a great boost !
    Cheers !

  5. #5
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    That's a nice list, but here is what I recommand to you (only my thought) :
    -Drop the laser in the third tactical or make it a devastator squad.
    -Take an assault bike with MM, minimum.
    -For baals I find the template too short, go for bolters
    -A fist in the vets can be good !
    -Too much vets in squad maybe
    -Mephiston is great, but has no invincible save in hand to hand and will die in a second if you're unlucky or charging tough stuff
    You could go for Corbulo in a CC squad, he has a 4+ invincible save and is a great boost !
    Cheers !
    my only problem was i at 1850 points i am at the absolute max, i mean i could drop a man in each vet squad, but i was afraid by the time they made it across the board they might be a bit too weak?? and same goes with the fist in the vets squad, i want to run a fist and 2 power weapons but i am finding it hard to come up with points without making stuff too weak

    and the only reason i took the tac squad with the las cannon is cuz its 15 points cheaper to take it in that squad than a devastators squad.

    for mehiston even though he is not gonna be part of a squad he was basically just gonna follow around behind one of the vet squads to get the 4+ invul cover save from them and then assault teh same unit and by my calculations the unit should be wiped out pretty handily, with mephiston by himself getting a possible 9 attacks on the charge at str 5 int 6 i think most stuff is gonna die, plus i could always use him for assaulting unprotected squads like devastators and such without a PF. tecnically even a squad with a PF is not gonna kill him even in 2 turns really as 1 he can't be one shotted and 2 they are gonna have a tougher time having to roll 4's to hit so when they only have 2 attacks and its %50 chance to hit then a %16.66 to roll a 1.

    btw, everything i am going over is taking 5th edition rules into mind as thats all we play now at the shop with the stores copy.

  6. #6
    Brother Sergeant DOS's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    @bobafett012
    "5x tac maines
    1x las cannon"

    This is not a legal configuration, you need to buy a full 10 man squad before you take a heavy weapon

    The rest of the list is pretty good.
    I'd personally take 2 MM Attack bikes and a Vindicator instead of Mephiston however.

    Theres a hell of a lot out there that destroys Mephiston at his own game.
    Nids: Broodlords, Fexs, Tyrants
    Chaos: Dreads, Daemon princes, Abbadon, Defilers
    Daemons: Too much to name

    Vs IG, DE (bar Archon/incubi/Drazhar), Tau, Eldar (bar Doomed Banshees), Orcs (Bar Ghazghkull, dreads), Marines (bar dreads), DH, WH, Necrons (Bar C'Tan) he should do well.

    FnP is nerfed come 5th but he is still resilient to shooting when placed in a unit for protection and properly screened. A trend amongst the three armies I find Meph to be lacking against; they seem to have models immune to instant death and generally have a large selection of anti MEQ CC.

    Also if you drop 2 marines from each Vet squad and the illegal lascannon Tac Squad you have enough points for:
    6x vet assault marines
    3x combi-plasma
    2xplasma guns

    I like to use the unit to roast Terminators, MCs and generally things you don't want to get messy in melee with. Keep them in jump packs then leapfrog the rhino screen and unleash hell, put them in a rhino and deploy/rapid fire or deep strike is even viable.

    Running the list with the above changes gets you (provided the new Vets are in a rhino); 3 Rhinos and 3 AV13 front armoured tanks which is a very nice screen and provides a wide array or armour for the opponene to target.
    Only problem is buying/ transporting all those tanks :S

    Food for thought...
    Last edited by DOS; 24-06-2008 at 23:13.
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  7. #7

    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Must say not a bad review. I know it sounds wierd, but why not more shooting orientated lists. We all know they can fight, but I see them being able to put out the flak w/ the rest of them.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by DOS View Post
    @bobafett012
    "5x tac maines
    1x las cannon"

    This is not a legal configuration, you need to buy a full 10 man squad before you take a heavy weapon

    Theres a hell of a lot out there that destroys Mephiston at his own game.
    Nids: Broodlords, Fexs, Tyrants
    Chaos: Dreads, Daemon princes, Abbadon, Defilers
    Daemons: Too much to name

    Vs IG, DE (bar Archon/incubi/Drazhar), Tau, Eldar (bar Doomed Banshees), Orcs (Bar Ghazghkull, dreads), Marines (bar dreads), DH, WH, Necrons (Bar C'Tan) he should do well.

    FnP is nerfed come 5th but he is still resilient to shooting when placed in a unit for protection and properly screened. A trend amongst the three armies I find Meph to be lacking against; they seem to have models immune to instant death and generally have a large selection of anti MEQ CC.

    Also if you drop 2 marines from each Vet squad and the illegal lascannon Tac Squad you have enough points for:
    6x vet assault marines
    3x combi-plasma
    2xplasma guns

    Running the list with the above changes gets you (provided the new Vets are in a rhino); 3 Rhinos and 3 AV13 front armoured tanks which is a very nice screen and provides a wide array or armour for the opponene to target.
    Only problem is buying/ transporting all those tanks :S

    Food for thought...

    oh yes i missed that in the codex, thx.

    actually you know what i was thinking about running mephiston in a seperate unit screened by other assault squads/rhinos and then take him into CC with squads such as devastators or anything with little to no retaliation against him as he has so many attacks he will surley be breaking many a squad in 5th with the new leadership tests, and PF's can't insta kill him so even the hidden fist in a unit would take more turns to kill him then he could kill a whole squad in.

    the other thing that is scaring me is running less than 3 troop selections in 5th, with them being my only scoring units i think i might run into problems holding objectives if there are too many. in games i have been playing where you roll for objectives i keep getting 4-5 objectives to capture so i am afraid to spread my self too thin in the troop area. i like the bike additions though for AT with the MM, or i could even throw a small squad of bikes equipped with melta bombs in there to zip uo behind their armor.

    and as far as running shooty BA i just think that if you don't run any assaulty units in BA armies you are not playing to the armies strengths which is a number 1 tactic for any army.

  9. #9

    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Mephiston is T5. The average Power Fist will not instant kill him.

  10. #10
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Democratus View Post
    Mephiston is T5. The average Power Fist will not instant kill him.
    The average power fist don't have 1 attack
    A simple power weapon is enough to kill him, sadly.
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  11. #11
    Chapter Master Sekhmet's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    The average power fist don't have 1 attack
    A simple power weapon is enough to kill him, sadly.
    It'll have 2 attacks, maybe 3 if they charge. Remember, power fists don't get +1 attack for 2 ccws anymore.

    Unfortunately, Mephiston got a lot worse in survivability. FNP is negated by AP2 or AP1 SHOTS now, so a plasma gun leaves him with no saves at all.
    Maneuver to create local superiority.

  12. #12
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Right, but since IC are only targetable in CC, we don't insist on AP shots
    It's just that the era of massive destruction of the lord of death has reached a end...
    Sad, because I painted him just some days ago lolz (had it since 93)
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  13. #13
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    Right, but since IC are only targetable in CC, we don't insist on AP shots
    It's just that the era of massive destruction of the lord of death has reached a end...
    Sad, because I painted him just some days ago lolz (had it since 93)
    if he is in a squad for protection i don't see why he couldn't be just as beastly as before. i am thinkin if an enemy pours enough shots into him to kill him on turn 1 they would have just wasted prolly most if not all of their fire power shooting him alone, and really if you focused on him and killed him but allowed the rest of the vet assault marines, rhinoed tac marines, DC, baals, and possibly furiosos to reach you, you just lost the game, so meph took one for the team.

  14. #14
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    We're absolutely not talking about that.
    The point is that mephiston has always been a CC killer, but now to survive we should avoid specialized units, nobs etc...
    So what's the point if we shouldn't use it to kill tough stuff ?
    There are loads of way of killing basic troops for 200+ points with less risks.
    Click to see my Blood Angels Army (10000 points)
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  15. #15
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    We're absolutely not talking about that.
    The point is that mephiston has always been a CC killer, but now to survive we should avoid specialized units, nobs etc...
    So what's the point if we shouldn't use it to kill tough stuff ?
    There are loads of way of killing basic troops for 200+ points with less risks.
    mehpiston + vet assault squad is gonna kill most anything that they get into combat with with little difficulty so i am not understanding what you mean by "the era of massive destruction is over" i mean would you not say its a safe bet that if meph and a squad of vet assault marines charge most any unit in the game, they are gonna completely wipe them out or at least come close to that?

  16. #16
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    BA have an init of 4, Meph 5, so if you're charging banshees or other specialists, you'll kill some, get mephiston dying and then the veterans will finish the work.
    To stay in the eldars, with previous codex, he could kill an avatar, now he would just be popped out.

    Well, that's only mephiston, mustn't be the most important thing in collecting/playing blood angels.

    I second the fact that everybody has his opinion, it would be sad, else.
    Click to see my Blood Angels Army (10000 points)
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  17. #17
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    BA have an init of 4, Meph 5, so if you're charging banshees or other specialists, you'll kill some, get mephiston dying and then the veterans will finish the work.
    To stay in the eldars, with previous codex, he could kill an avatar, now he would just be popped out.

    Well, that's only mephiston, mustn't be the most important thing in collecting/playing blood angels.

    I second the fact that everybody has his opinion, it would be sad, else.
    you must be looking at the wrong meph bud, he has int 6, which is why i am saying what i am. he is goin first almost ALWAYS, with the exception of other int 6 special characters and even then he has a force weapon, so bye bye special character.

  18. #18
    Veteran Sergeant Lax's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Well, I have a misprint on my codex ^^ stoopid printer
    Okay, so Meph is nerfed but still playable, in squad.
    Sorry for the init stuff.
    Click to see my Blood Angels Army (10000 points)
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  19. #19
    Chapter Master bobafett012's Avatar
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    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Lax View Post
    Well, I have a misprint on my codex ^^ stoopid printer
    Okay, so Meph is nerfed but still playable, in squad.
    Sorry for the init stuff.
    np man, i really am just tryin to guage what other people think about BA stuff as i am getting ready to buy 2000 pts worth, so most of my thoughts are based of theoryhammer, with some from watching BA players.

    but out of curiosity, i was just rolling my dice to see what it would take to kill him if i shot my whole deathwing army at him and it is generally taking about 3-5 squads of terms and sometimes my LRC too just to kill him, and if i did that it wouldn't leave me which much to try and whittle down those assault marines or take out rhinos i am gonna head over to the shop and play a few BA games using my ravenguard as proxies and see what my list and meph can do.

  20. #20

    Re: [Tactica] Blood Angels

    Right, but since IC are only targetable in CC...
    That is no longer the case in 5th edition. ICs can be shot at just like any other unit now.

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