5th ed CSM notes

[sean_scanlon2000]

we can use forge world models some of us do me i have the FW dred and zhufor but thats about it.

@ valek and thats similar to what i tend to run with but i usually take 1 unit of csm and the other 3 are berserkers or 2 depending on the points limit im playing at recently been doing alot more at 1500. but thats because alot of the guys in my group have been working on new summer armies. DE and Eldar are my new favorite thorns in my side. havent fought the eldar yet with WE but have done DE on several occasion.... poor kharn hasnt been the same since his soul got sucked into a trap....

[Rogerio]

Well i played Dark Eldar again last night and i changed my list to have 2 Vindis and 1 predator as my HS choices, we played dawn of war and annihilation and it was a DISASTER.

Started with my 3 tanks and a dread on the board and 3 Rhinos and termi squad off in reserve. He got first turn moved forward very quickly mostly in cover and then it was my turn, i tried to fire but nothing could see in the darkness which was the worst thing ever.

In his 2nd turn dawn of war was gone and i was taken to bits, he blew up one Vindi and then Blew the DC off the other one and stunned my Predator leaving only my dread on the table to be able to do anything untill my reserves eventually turned up. We decided to call it and do another mission as i had very very little chance of winning at that point.

Did another game with capture and control and i swapped one Vindi for 2 oblits and the diffrence was very noticeable, the amount of fire pumped out was great and knocked out 3 raiders and a ravager in 2 turns in combination with my predator and dread, My reserves came on and made it to his objective quite quickly and claimed it but in the final turn i didnt place my Rhino properly on my own objective and he contested it with the 1 jetboke he had left

Im starting to get the feeling that Vindis are not very good, the amount of times they scatter is ridiculous and with the amount of cover around most infanctry get cover saves against the ordnance and it scatters ALOT! im leaning towards a 2nd predator, more oblits or using my havocs again as although i love vindis theyre massively unreliable. Oblits are so much more veratile, in this game they blew up a ravager and a raider then when the incubi and lord got out they flamed most of them to death before charging in and killing all but the archon! although they died they did rock.

[ashc]

Vindicators work best vs. Mass infantry where the scatters matter little, I am not that surprised at the result against dark eldar.

[Rogerio]

Vindicators work best vs. Mass infantry where the scatters matter little, I am not that surprised at the result against dark eldar.

What would you suggest instead?? ive taken Havocs and they are very good but they always seem to get caltropped by jetbikes which is a total pain!

Oblits seem really really good actually can do anything, lascannons at long range or flamers at short range, pretty survivable too.

[Saturnman]

If they don't get popped, havoc ml's on rhinos seems good vs. De

[Kelanen]

we played dawn of war and annihilation and it was a DISASTER.

Started with my 3 tanks and a dread on the board and 3 Rhinos and termi squad off in reserve.

Am I misunderstanding something? In DoW you get 1x HQ and 2x Troops (Troops with transports counts as 2). None of your 3 tanks (assuming you meant the 2x Vindis and 1x Pred you just mentioned) get to start on the field...

Im starting to get the feeling that Vindis are not very good, the amount of times they scatter is ridiculous and with the amount of cover around most infanctry get cover saves against the ordnance and it scatters ALOT!

They actually don't scatter that much, and Infantry shouldn't be able to get much cover against them, assuming your firing at frontline units not 2nd/rear. They are very much an anti-infantry tank, that can shoot at vehicles in emergency - that applies to anything using blasts in 5th pretty much.

That said, as has been opined many times in many threads - yes Oblits are just flat out better. Always are. Than everything really, there's no getting around that. The ability to shift weapons with teh flow of the game, and be 3 lascannons to pop transports, and then 3 plasmacannons to the fry the contents, and then 3 multimeltas to hit the Land Raider moving up... Nothing else touches that. Possessed Vindis, Defilers etc offer reasonable things from the Heavy slot, Havocs are more efficient at one role (but can't do Plasma Cannons or MultiMeltas) but Oblits always rule it...

[sean_scanlon2000]

for thoes of you who actually use havocs what weapons configs are you running around with? im debating on running a unit with auto cannons this weekends. the WE fought sam hain eldar this past sunday and did not like the results.... so im debating on swapping out the standard defiler i run and trying to use a simple havoc squad. im considering AC over ML simply because their the same price but get alot more shots and that 1 str isnt going to make that much of a difference if i miss with my 4 shots as opposed to 8.

[ashc]

4 missile launchers, 4 autocannons, or 2 x 2 of each depending on opponent or take all comers.

[sean_scanlon2000]

well right now im leaning more towards the Auto cannons simply because i think they would be more effective against my current opponents... right now leaning more towards playing against eldar dark eldar as well as guard and orks. seems alot of the people in my local area have run into the im sick of power armour phase. me i just am done playing with the orks for a while so brushed off the bag and am giving myself up to the dark gods once again.

[Saturnman]

Currently trying this 1500 pt list based on what I've been reading for the past couple of weeks, critiques would be nice!


DP-Wings/MoS/LoS
DP-Wings/MoS/LoS

9 Zerkers in a Rhino, Champion, PF, P.Icon
9 Zerkers in a Rhino, Champion, PF, P.Icon
5 PM in a Rhino, 2x Melta, P.Icon
5 PM in a Rhino, 2x Melta, P.Icon
2 Oblits
2 Oblits


I really like the idea of splitting a PM squad into two 5 man squad ala "combat tactics" True, they do get hurt bad by plasma and such, but making the opponent fire at two separate targets generally works in my favor IMHO..and the extra 2 melta guns is crucial for popping multiple vehicles in one turn.

[Kelanen]

@Sean: If you are going to run Havocs, I'd strongly recommend 4x Autocannons. They are only 1.33 times better than a Krak missile btw (vs AV11) so that point of strength makes more difference than you think, but they are still what I'd recommend.

[Kelanen]

@Saturnman: Looks very solid!

Why the personal icons? They only thing they help is to guide Oblits - I'd prefer a combi-melta on one of the BErzerker Rhinos personally.

At that points level, personally I'd drop a unit of Berzerkers for more Oblits, but what you have is very good.

[Saturnman]

More oblits! That's already 300 points in a 1500 game haha. I was always a fan of taking lots of troops. I only added the P.Icons to help guide oblits for potentially *needing* to be in a certain spot, but I could live with only taking 2.

I don't think I factor in two daemon princes as a reason to drop a squad of zerkers...but I dunno. I'd worry about having scoring units on the board with only 20 marines.

[ashc]

Pretty typical power-chaos list. As has been said, probably too many personal icons, and I would agree that combiweapons or even perhaps a havoc launcher would not go amiss on a rhino or two, but in general you have the right idea.

[Kelanen]

More oblits! That's already 300 points in a 1500 game haha.

...and 675 of Oblits wouldn't be a terrible idea...

I was always a fan of taking lots of troops.

Troops don't do a lot in general, they are a tax you have to have (which is why they made them much more attractive in 5th!). That said CSM actually have really good troops, so you can play a lot more without dropping your power level so much. Heavies tend to do your damage (Elites in some armies too)

I don't think I factor in two daemon princes as a reason to drop a squad of zerkers...but I dunno. I'd worry about having scoring units on the board with only 20 marines.

The pair of DP's is close to as good as a squad of Berzerkers, you have all 4 units (sensibly!) in Rhinos, and the Plagues are 3x as hard to kill as an average marine. You don't need to worry about numbers, and furthermore Berzerkers aren't often around one way or another for objectives at the end - if that's a real concern for you then maybe drop 1 Berzerker unit for another Plague (could be without a Rhino for camping) and then more Oblits.

[atraphos]

for thoes of you who actually use havocs what weapons configs are you running around with? im debating on running a unit with auto cannons this weekends. the WE fought sam hain eldar this past sunday and did not like the results.... so im debating on swapping out the standard defiler i run and trying to use a simple havoc squad. im considering AC over ML simply because their the same price but get alot more shots and that 1 str isnt going to make that much of a difference if i miss with my 4 shots as opposed to 8.

well right now im leaning more towards the Auto cannons simply because i think they would be more effective against my current opponents... right now leaning more towards playing against eldar dark eldar as well as guard and orks. seems alot of the people in my local area have run into the im sick of power armour phase. me i just am done playing with the orks for a while so brushed off the bag and am giving myself up to the dark gods once again.

I run 2 x havoc squads against a friends Orks, 1 with 4 x Heavy Bolters, and the other with 4 x M Launchers. I put them together recently and both squads work wonders if you have them set up in good spots. I wouldn't take these squads against anything else tho. I have Oblits and Defilers for anything that isn't Ork.

Currently trying this 1500 pt list based on what I've been reading for the past couple of weeks, critiques would be nice!


DP-Wings/MoS/LoS
DP-Wings/MoS/LoS

9 Zerkers in a Rhino, Champion, PF, P.Icon
9 Zerkers in a Rhino, Champion, PF, P.Icon
5 PM in a Rhino, 2x Melta, P.Icon
5 PM in a Rhino, 2x Melta, P.Icon
2 Oblits
2 Oblits
...

Solid, standard list, made up of all the strongest units in the CSM Dex. Can't suggest much with this list at this points level as any other unit is considered craptastic against what you have chosen.

[SteelTitan]

I tried LoS a couple of times and I'm not a fan. Anti-psy ruins your day (at least kills the utility you had planned for your DPs) and with 'only' 4 oblits as your fire base destroying units is also not a given.

[Kevlar]

I sometimes run 4x missile launcher havoks. I like them over the ac because they work better against av12-13 and aren't totally useless against av14. Being able to ID toughness 4 is nice too. Less useful but still an option is their anti horde frag shots.

The only reason I run them over oblits is the points. I would rather swap a squad of oblits for havoks than to field a reduced str squad of oblits and waste a heavy slot. My normal loadout would be defiler, 3x oblits, 4x ML havoks. I think that is a bit better than defiler and two units of 2x oblits. 6 or 9 oblits just ends up being too costly most times and you have to sacrifice troop choices. Or give up my wonderful plasma cannon dread.

[rosja]

I tried LoS a couple of times and I'm not a fan. Anti-psy ruins your day (at least kills the utility you had planned for your DPs) and with 'only' 4 oblits as your fire base destroying units is also not a given.

couldn't agree more on that.
DP without Warptime loses all of his hitting power - in fact i would take Sorcerer for lashing - but thats me.
Oblits are uberawesomesauce until you get hit by 1 Annihilator and lose whole squad in 1 turn.

[Kelanen]

Or give up my wonderful plasma cannon dread.

In competitive terms this would be the way forward. But then you knew that!