Sure, Lascannon wins out every time facing 2+ armour, it depends how likely you are to fire it at those. Then again, any list with 6-9 Oblits has that covered with Plasma Cannons...Originally Posted by Kevlar
Sure, Lascannon wins out every time facing 2+ armour, it depends how likely you are to fire it at those. Then again, any list with 6-9 Oblits has that covered with Plasma Cannons...
Kelanen
I agree, but most of this was in reference to Bonzai's triple defiler list. There I agree with his loadout of twin lascannon upgrades. I'd probably even take lascannon or plasma dreads over his combi-plasma terminators. He has a distinct lack of ap2 weaponry. Battlecannons are nice, but not against terminator lists.
A fair point, and I agree.
Kelanen
The dreads were a real temptation. I could drop one squad of 5 terminators and get 2 dreads. It would probably be stronger over all, but the whole fire frenzy thing turns me a little off on them.
Project Tomb World: Here
remember its only a 45 degree arc from the gun... keeps stuff out of that arc... and laugh as you gun down those termies with 2 TL bolter shots and 2 Plasma cannon shots.. also remember you roll for what they do at the start of the turn.. so if your opponent is like "they moved into LoS before you rolled.. tell him ok.. move your unit so it doesnt conflict with what happens... as if you knew that arc was there.. you wouldnt sacrifice stuff by moving them in the way..
and anyway you'd want that dread to walk forward from the word go... as at the back by defilers is just opening you to shooting yourself in your feet (bad pun)
I just played against one of the most original lists I have seen a Chaos player field in ages against my Chaos army and it ripped me apart. He played 2 squads of 8 Noise Marines with 7 Sonic Blasters and a Blastmaster in each squad. One squad of 10 Plaguemarines with Meltagun, Flamer and Champ with PF/PP. All squads were in Rhinos. Then he took another Noise Marine squad of 8 and put them in a Land Raider with Abaddon. 5 deep striking shooty Terminators and 2 Havoc squads. One with 4 Las and the other with 4 Heavy Bolter. He also had a Lash Prince. He got first turn and I tried to setup to deny him at least a little bit of shooting but it didn't work. In a day and age where people say only one kind of Chaos army can work it was refreshing to see one that was really effective but original at the same time. I didn't even mind losing to it lol
Fire Frenzy is not as bad with the new FAQ. Doesn't make them great, but MUCH easier to make them not suck.
Kelanen
i still prefer termies, unless you're maxing defilers and going for mild armour spam. Personally I only play plagues, oblits and termies (well Princes and rhinos too naturally) and the sheer number of 2+ or equivalent saves on the table gives opponents a real headache
Maulerfiends are on the loose, Maulerfiends are go;
Mauler, Mauler, Mauler, Maulerfiends!
In all fairness what got you? Was it Abaddon and the terminators, or the noise marines? Sonic blasters are very overpriced for what they do. Get them in assault and they are barely better than regular CSM for almost twice the cost.
The Lascannon havocs blew up one of my Land Raiders on the first turn but on the 2nd turn was when everything went to hell. The Noise Marines moved up and unleashed on my Havoc squad that was hiding in a building and killed 4 of them leaving only 1 Lascannon guy left. The Lash Prince dragged my Sorcerer and his Terminators over towards Abaddon and the squad of Plague Marines. I managed to win combat against those 2 squads because he threw all his attacks on the Sorcerer from Abaddon. I killed 7 Plague Marines and he took a few fearless wounds but nothing happened. The next turn he finished off the Termies. My Kharn and his berzerkers charged out of the other Land Raider and killed what was left of the Plague Marines. That went ok until Abaddon ate them. The Noise Marines were throwing out so many shots that my Plague Marines couldn't fnp all of them. The list totally took me off guard as I had never seen a list setup like it before.
Fielding a bunch of sonic blasters and blast masters sounds fun but against a different match up how to you think they would compare, as they are a very expensive unit?
I underestimated them but I won't again. I know people look at them and they laugh at them but they shouldn't. They can move 6 and still fire 2 shots at 24 or stand still and fire 3 shots at 24. That is a rather useful ability to have. Plus they are Fearless and Ini 5 in close combat so if you give one of their champs a power weapon then that squad could potentially be useful for Assaulting and of course for Shooting. They aren't as good as Thousand Sons where it concerns the AP3 from the Inferno Bolts but TS' also have to take the Sorcerer in the squad and they don't have the range the Noise Marines would with sonic blasters.
Call me crazy but I think they are a pretty good unit in a codex that is sorely lacking in units that are cost efficient.
Yes you are crazy. They are not good against the CSM power list, let alone any Tier 1 lists (which CSM certainly isn't).
Kelanen
Absolutely, and totally can't see how they're points efficient, when compared either internally or externally. I mean, externally just look at a grey knight strike squad- 5 points a model cheaper than a similarly armed sonic blaster- and has a force weapon and a load of special rules on top.
Internally, bezerkers, plague marines and chaos marines are all significantly better- noise marines are battling with thousand sons for who is the most ridiculously awful
Maulerfiends are on the loose, Maulerfiends are go;
Mauler, Mauler, Mauler, Maulerfiends!
And Samiens is a player for whom Noise Marines ought to be a good unit - he favours versatile units. When he finds them poor... lol
Kelanen
Thousand Sons are not ridiculously awful. I have used them to great effect many times. They are a great tar pit unit. They held up a Bloodthrister for 5 turns in close combat. They hold objectives as well as plague marines and you do not have to worry about losing your 4++ save. Bezerkers are great in close combat, but they get shot down quickly. The current Thousand Sons are a better unit than the 3.5 books rendition. But I would agree that the Noise Marines are not worth their points when all is said and done. If they came with sonic blasters at the base cost (or 1 or 2 points more) and the blast master was 10-20 points cheaper, they would be a great unit. That is the only cult unit I do not own.
Noise marines had some qualities when the book was released, but you're talking about a time when Orks were about to be the big thing and before the 4+ cover save became ubiquitous. Now they're basically a unit that excels at killing light infantry in highish numbers (which you rarely see) for a price that becomes more intolerable with each codex release.
As for thousand sons, im glad they work for you TL, but I totally disagree with you. For starters they don't hold objectives as well as plague marines. Thanks to cover plagues have the same level of inviolable save as TS, but back that up with an extra point of toughness and fnp so they are significantly less likely to die. They also have defensive grenades and an extra attack so are better against anything in combat that isn't a high strength/power weapon wielder- and even then its situational- against grey knight strike squads I'd still just about prefer plague marines.
As for holding up a blood thirster for 5 turns- that's not really evidence of anything- at a recent tournament my opponent charged an obliterator with abaddon and fluffed his weapon roll. Due to the situation on the board I charged 2 more oblits in, abaddon fluffed again and the oblits killed him- great outcome for me but does it suggest oblits can take him in combat- not even a little bit.
Maulerfiends are on the loose, Maulerfiends are go;
Mauler, Mauler, Mauler, Maulerfiends!
Yeah, the anecdotal evidence is frankly irrelevant.
Thousand Sons I want to like, but they are terrible atm, Noise Marines IMO are worse, and definitely should have the Sonic Blasters free, and the BlastMaster discounted.
Still, it's all change shortly...
Kelanen
Just out of curiosity, and no spite or disrespect intended, but where do your competitive experience come from? Are you a regular tournament-goer? I have read roughly 50 pages or so of this behemoth of a thread and your opinions have gone pretty undisputed by other regular posters so I have to assume you know what you're talking about (I have no competitive experience whatsoever, so I really don't have a hat to throw in that ring).
It's not like he has a list of credentials as long as his arm or something, he just speaks the plain truth and has a good grasp of the rules, math and he posts often. He backs his arguments with solid math and examples and knows pretty much every codex inside and out.
There's not a lot to being good at 40k besides knowing exactly what everything can do and playing as much to your advantage as possible.
Tyranids; 3W-0L-0D in tourny play in 6th
Blood Angels; 0-0-0 in tourny play in 6th
Photos of my stuff; Pics
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote