Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[the12thronin]

I've done pretty well at 1500 lately with this:

Belial
Librarian in Terminator Armor
3 Terminator Squads with AC
2 Terminator Squads with Cyclones

I generally start with either just the Cyclones on the board and DWA two of the three AC squads or leave all in reserve and DWA the three AC's. All depends on what the mission and opponent are of course. Librarian also adds a little more MC, Warboss, and lash defense. Getting hellfire off occasionaly isn't bad either.

[Venerable_Brother]

@ Grazzy : "...We all know that DW find it hard to fill up points when there 20-120 left, so how does this sound? A 60 point unit that has a psychic hood and kills deepstrikers deady dead. Inquisitor with hood, Hierophant (for LD 9 for hood), 2 mystics (allows me to choose a unit within 12'' to shoot deepstriking enemy units)..."

- This is a great idea as has been commented.... guys any idea on this...SM drop pod vs Inq. Mystic...
"...hatches are blown...must disembark immediately..." D.Pod (Sm 'dex)
"...free shot...Before the unit moves..." Mystics (DH codex)
With template death, oh I don't know..servitors with plasma cannon etc,...does the template land on the drop pod therefore hitting ALL marines (as they have not disemarked yet) ? or does the space marine move faster than the emperor's tarot can read..implying that even though the mystic knows exactly when and wehre the SM DP will land, the hatches blow and the marines disembark BEFORE a single, pre-targeted shot can go off?
This is pretty A-Holes-ish but....its only a game...and more power to the Deathwing (&allies!)...
Cheers

EDIT: Nevermind!! Sorry guys, DH FAQ answers this!!

[Grazzy]

Bobafett - when i get a 4th termie squad i will have the option of swapping out the LRC for another termie squad - at the mo though the LRC will just act as a termie squad.

[[Black] Katalyst]

*rubs eyes*

Ugh, I just finished reading each and every post in this thread. I've only been playing Deathwing for a few weeks but now I feel like a veteran. I run a mechanized style list with one or two units using the DWA. 3 LRs in 2000 points is a lot of fun.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this community.

-I proxied a LR Redeemer in a 2 games, one versus Orks and one versus Vanilla Marines. IMO its crap. I can't see why people want to use them so bad. First, its nearly impossible to completely use both flame templates against a single unit. IMO if I can't use both to full effectiveness, its a waste of points. Second, why give up 2x TLLCs?! We have plenty of anti-infantry weapons already, I like my AT.

-Chaplains or Librarians? I feel thier effectiveness and playing synergy are equal. Nothing beats a Chaplain in a squad with 5x LCs. A librarian on the other hand is like having a second Apothecary. The psychic hood and force weapon are just frosting. Statistically, Hellfire will be atleast S5 so its going to cause some wounds regardless of the AP. Both models, BADA$$.

And for giggles, I want to know what you fellas think of my list.

Belial
-2x LCs
130pts

Chaplain
-Terminator Armor
145pts

5x Terminators
-Chainfist
-Assault Cannon
250pts

5x Terminators
-Chainfist
-Assault Cannon
250pts

5x Terminators
-4x LCs
-TH/SS
215pts

5x Terminators
-4x LCs
-TH/SS
215pts

Landraider Crusader
-Extra Armor
265pts

Landraider
-Extra Armor
265pts

Landraider
-Extra Armor
265pts

2000 points on the dot.

-Belial and a CC squad go in the LRC.
-Chaplain and a CC squad DWA or plain DS near advancing LRC.
-Both shooty squads ride in each LR.

I don't have much of a plan because everything changes on the fly and depending who I play against. Tactics, IMO, are usually good for the first turn. I play fast and I play aggressive.

[BrotherErekose]

Chaplain-Terminator Armor

I have a very minor point to make. You don't have to have the chap take T armor. Leave him in power armor and you gain the extra attack back from the bolt pistol. His Invul Save remains, and you're off one armor save in exchange for one extra attack.

Plus, though difficult to do, you'll get points back to spend ... some place.


I 'figured' this was a better arrangement when I was using a vanilla codex list of Chap plus Assault Termies. And I get to happily use my Asmodai model.

[Russell's teapot]

*rubs eyes*

Ugh, I just finished reading each and every post in this thread. I've only been playing Deathwing for a few weeks but now I feel like a veteran.

Good show sir, I hope it's helped...

-I proxied a LR Redeemer in a 2 games, one versus Orks and one versus Vanilla Marines. IMO its crap. I can't see why people want to use them so bad. First, its nearly impossible to completely use both flame templates against a single unit. IMO if I can't use both to full effectiveness, its a waste of points. Second, why give up 2x TLLCs?! We have plenty of anti-infantry weapons already, I like my AT.

The redeemer has the snazzy new PotMS, so it doesn't need to shoot at the same unit!

I agree though that the normal LR is a better bet for most DW armies. As you say, it's some very good anti-tank you'll be missing out on...

-Chaplains or Librarians? I feel thier effectiveness and playing synergy are equal. Nothing beats a Chaplain in a squad with 5x LCs. A librarian on the other hand is like having a second Apothecary. The psychic hood and force weapon are just frosting. Statistically, Hellfire will be atleast S5 so its going to cause some wounds regardless of the AP. Both models, BADA$$.

I think it's a personal choice, both have their advantages & disadvantages. Both perform the role of apothecary equally well (except the Chaplain has the 4++). If you are running assault based (as you are...mostly) then the chaplain is probably a better bet, but I wouldn't bet against the librarian.

And for giggles, I want to know what you fellas think of my list.

Hmm, a mix of shooting & assault is generally a bad thing, but see how it plays out...

-Belial and a CC squad go in the LRC.
-Chaplain and a CC squad DWA or plain DS near advancing LRC.
-Both shooty squads ride in each LR.

I'd be wary of DSing a cc squad - a bad scatter & they are out the game for good. I'd run the chaplain in the LRC - he'll make your 'amost guarenteed to get there' assault squad much more effective. In fact , go eggs & baskets - assault squad + chappers + belial in the LRC, assault squad in LR, then DS a shooty squad where a bad scatter matters less as their range is likely to negate a bad scatter.

I shy away from DSing - I tried it again a couple of weeks ago (I do it every 3 months or so) - lost 500 points turn 1 to the warp. Maybe I'm just crap at DSing

Good luck...

I have a very minor point to make. You don't have to have the chap take T armor. Leave him in power armor and you gain the extra attack back from the bolt pistol. His Invul Save remains, and you're off one armor save in exchange for one extra attack.

Plus, though difficult to do, you'll get points back to spend ... some place.


I 'figured' this was a better arrangement when I was using a vanilla codex list of Chap plus Assault Termies. And I get to happily use my Asmodai model.

You could - but then it's not DeathWing. It won't work for the purists - but I've seen it used. Sacrificing the coolness of a full terminator army for +1 attack on one model seems odd to me - but I'm a purist

I'll grant you that it may be more 'effective' though.

[Grazzy]

Deathwing Hybrid 1500pts

HQ:
Belial, Master of the Deathwing – 130pts
• Sword of Secrets and Storm Bolter

Troops:
Deathwing Terminator Squad 1 – 245pts
• Storm Bolters & Power Fists, Assault Cannon

Deathwing Terminator Squad 2 – 245pts
• Storm Bolters & Power Fists, Assault Cannon

Deathwing Terminator Squad 3 – 245pts
• Storm Bolters & Power Fists, Assault Cannon

Deathwing Terminator Squad 4 – 245pts
• Storm Bolters & Power Fists, Assault Cannon

Heavy Support:
Predator 1 – 130pts
• Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 2 – 130pts
• Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 3 – 130pts
• Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons

I'm possibly thinking of changing one (or more!) of the Predators into Vindicators for additional 24" related pain... thoughts?

Thanks

NovaScotius

How about making one predator into AC/HB in order to get an apothecary and some chainfists?

[NovaScotius]

How about making one predator into AC/HB in order to get an apothecary and some chainfists?

That's a fairly tempting idea, but how useful is the Apothecary? Also, will Chain Fists make that much of an impact overall, I have a high number of Power Fists already, so I'm wondering if the extra D6 penetration is worth it?

Would two semi-anti-tank Predators be enough at 1500?

[Russell's teapot]

That's a fairly tempting idea, but how useful is the Apothecary? Also, will Chain Fists make that much of an impact overall, I have a high number of Power Fists already, so I'm wondering if the extra D6 penetration is worth it?

Would two semi-anti-tank Predators be enough at 1500?

If you can spare the points, the Apothecary is one of our best wargear choices. It makes its points back every shooting phase!
However, it can be difficult to squeeze in at 1500pts. Use it wisely & don't compromise your killing effectiveness for it - that's my advice.

As for chainfists - I have one in every squad - BUT I expect to face quite a few LRs, Ironclads & souldgrinders - all of which make my chainfists worth it. It depends on what you face & how you use your squads.

[[Black] Katalyst]

Thanks for the input guys.

-An extra attack is always nice, but I like the pure DW.

-I was using the Prometheus with the DA PotMS, I can see its advantages with vanilla PotMS.

-Is there such thing as too many eggs in one basket? Belial, Chaplain, 4x LC, and 1x TH/SS Termies?! I mean, geez, that's a lot of rerolling, 21x LCs rerolling to hit and wound? That's... *buffering* 9x dead MEQs without the TH, Chaplain, or Belial.

I really feel that the Chaplain and Belial can be split up and still be quite effective. Only issue for me is I use one LRC. Its always a warming feeling when you cause a quadgrillion wounds, but enough is good too.

Belial and a CC squad should cause about 7 dead MEQs on the charge. The Chaplain and his CC squad should cause 11 or 12 dead MEQs on the charge.

Hmmmm. Since we want to kill our enemy on their turn, does that mean a Librarian is better because he'll cause less wounds?

[cowie165]

Katalyst I've always liked the idea of a choppy DW squad, but for better or for worse I've heeded the advice of the DW Tactica.

I was just wondering how you support your CC squad so they aren't all smoked with focus fire in Turn 2/3? Do you hold them back until they can all attack at once? Or do they generally survive solo?

[[Black] Katalyst]

Katalyst I've always liked the idea of a choppy DW squad, but for better or for worse I've heeded the advice of the DW Tactica.

I was just wondering how you support your CC squad so they aren't all smoked with focus fire in Turn 2/3? Do you hold them back until they can all attack at once? Or do they generally survive solo?

Depending on who I'm playing, I don't assault until second or third turn.

I call it the "El Toro". Its like a bullfight. You lead the enemy around, poking and stabbing until you finally slit its throat.

I set up my Terminators and Landraiders then take out the important stuff first. Onces the stuff that can kill me is gone I whittle down huge mobs, and such all while driving up the LRs to drop all my Terminators in the enemy's lines. Use the LRs to block LOS to help the Terminators survive after the initial assault. If all goes well everything should be mopped up.

[cowie165]

Depending on who I'm playing, I don't assault until second or third turn.

I call it the "El Toro". Its like a bullfight. You lead the enemy around, poking and stabbing until you finally slit its throat.

El Toro. I love it.


You know, I've always been prone to thinking I have to be doing something right out of the gate - I find it hard to sit tight, harass, evade - I keep pushing for 100% on every turn, rather than planning where I'll be two turns from now. That's probably what's letting me down at the moment.

I'm still smiling at El Toro. That is such an apt description

[Lion El Jason]

I still usually run one crusader with 2 HQs and a Lightning Claw unit at 2k points with the rest being 2 other LRs with assault terminators.

The Uber squad of doom will take care of nobz bikers (Espacially when softened up with crusader and AC fire before assaulting). IIRC The maths says the 4 LC guys from the squad will do 9 wounds, then belial and the chappy only need do 1 then start killing nobz. I think they do 6 wounds between them with the pre assault shooting and the chain fist yet to go I think you can easily kill 8-10 nobz that turn.

If you don't have anything that hard to kill then split the HQs off. All get out the LR and assault 3 different targets. ensuring 3 tied up units for some time to come.

-Is there such thing as too many eggs in one basket? Belial, Chaplain, 4x LC, and 1x TH/SS Termies?! I mean, geez, that's a lot of rerolling, 21x LCs rerolling to hit and wound? That's... *buffering* 9x dead MEQs without the TH, Chaplain, or Belial.

One small point, don't get a TH&SS terminator. Its almost 100% useless for Deathwing. Get a chainfist instead and give the same guy a heavy weapon...Assault cannon prefered but I do like my flamers

[[Black] Katalyst]

One small point, don't get a TH&SS terminator. Its almost 100% useless for Deathwing. Get a chainfist instead and give the same guy a heavy weapon...Assault cannon prefered but I do like my flamers

I gave this some thought. I changed the TH/SS Terminators to PF/HF. For their points and the fact they can be in transports. The main problem is points. I droped the chainfists on the shooty squads to flamers on the cc squads.

The way I see it, the shooty squads will be... er, shooting and holding objectives. The cc squads will be taking objectives. I know how much of a pain pathfinders can be, but I also know how they feel about heavy flamers :-) same goes for kroot, pathfinders, and the occasional scouts.

I see chainfists on a shooty squad as a last ditch effort sorta deal. IMO, I'll take heavyflamers over chainfists.

[Grazzy]

All of you deathwing players can rejoice - i have finally decided on a list!

Since my DW are actually just my own force using termies, i liked the idea a few posts above of adding predators.

Anti tank comes from the dread and raider and anti infantry from the termies and impossibly cheap preds. The LR would give me assaulting options too, but i think this would be rare.

Belial SB/SoS
Dread + TLLC + ML
5 termies + AC
5 termies + AC
5 termies + AC + apothecary + CF
LR
Pred (autocannon, 2 HB, pintle SB)
Pred (autocannon, 2 HB, pintle SB)

[Lion El Jason]

Dropping CFs on shooting squads is fine, most of them have power fists anyway. In an assault unit you need one powerfist type weapon and the best option is the CF. Since he has to have a shooty weapon I like to get him a Heavy Flamer but thats just my choice.

[[Black] Katalyst]

Just revamped my list a bit and wanted to post it up.

Belial
-2x LCs
130pts

Librarian
-Terminator Armor
145pts

5x Terminators
-Assault Cannon
245pts

5x Terminators
-Assault Cannon
245pts

5x Terminators
-4x LCs
-Heavy Flamer
220pts

5x Terminators
-4x LCs
-Heavy Flamer
220pts

Landraider Crusader
-Extra Armor
265pts

Landraider
-Extra Armor
265pts

Landraider
-Extra Armor
265pts

I like the Librarian and I think I'm gonna run him from now on. Since i need the AT of 2x LRs (and I'm not going the inquisitor route) and I don't want two characters in one unit, the Librarian fits in nicely. two more BS5 shots, a flame template, a force weapon (comes in handy when my opponent tries to send in something big and nasty, a hood is always handy, and he damn near counts as an apothecary.

I used my Terminator Chaplain for Belial. I don't like the Calgar or Lysander models and the Chaplain was my only bet. it can out really nice to boot.

[Khornies & milk]

I still usually run one crusader with 2 HQs and a Lightning Claw unit at 2k points with the rest being 2 other LRs with assault terminators.

The Uber squad of doom will take care of nobz bikers (Espacially when softened up with crusader and AC fire before assaulting). IIRC The maths says the 4 LC guys from the squad will do 9 wounds, then belial and the chappy only need do 1 then start killing nobz. I think they do 6 wounds between them with the pre assault shooting and the chain fist yet to go I think you can easily kill 8-10 nobz that turn.

If you don't have anything that hard to kill then split the HQs off. All get out the LR and assault 3 different targets. ensuring 3 tied up units for some time to come.



One small point, don't get a TH&SS terminator. Its almost 100% useless for Deathwing. Get a chainfist instead and give the same guy a heavy weapon...Assault cannon prefered but I do like my flamers

Great to see the 'lion' back on....the c/c loving is very thin on the ground around these parts.

A mix of shooty and assaulty squads works well for me within my 'Metagame environ', so I'm happy with it. I have switched out one Flamer/CF for an AssCan/CF for some great results.

I'm also using a Redeemer instead of a second Crusader and it can be a bit hit-and-miss, well the Flamestorm anyway with it's range issues, but when I roll well it's very efficient.

[[Black] Katalyst]

A mix of shooty and assaulty squads works well for me within my 'Metagame environ', so I'm happy with it. I have switched out one Flamer/CF for an AssCan/CF for some great results.

I'd love to see a list. With so many lists floating around with all shooting I'd like see something which I can compare.