Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Bartali]

An apothecary and psychic hood is pretty much compulsory in a foot list in my opinion

[Lion El Jason]

An apothecary and psychic hood is pretty much compulsory in a foot list in my opinion

apothecary and pseudo-medic that is the librarian power are almost compulsory...

[Bartali]

On the subject of foot lists, mech or foot at 1000pts ?

Mech gives me a LRC for mobility and a bunker, foot gives me three Deathwing squads to help with objectives. Opinions ?

[Deanorthk]

I would like to thanks everyone, I've read that post since post 1, and it's a great source.
I've been playing with my old deathwing terminator, but stopped since I kinda grew tired of the "clone" look of the old deathwing terminator (the position is too rigid also).
Anyway, on the subject, I'm going for a 1500 points force, with two LRC, quite exactly as Russel posted, wisdom posted here can be really put to good use
Main problem for me is to finish though my conversion and creation (belial, apothecary), and paint.

[Zeroth]

Hey guys! Got a non-tactical issue that I'd like some help with.

20th Feb. we got a local tournament coming and for my 1750 list, I'd love to have fluffy names on my terminator units, land raiders and librarian.
Anyone got something to contribute with here? All and anything would be apreciated!

Running 2 crusaders, 1 godhammer, 3 units and a librarian, Belial clearly don't need a name

[Toe Cutter]

Could give him a first name maybe? Andy Belial for example?

[/facetious]

I'd imagine if you google angel or angel names you might find a few decent ones.

Raiders could be named in homage to the primarch so 'will of the lion' or somesuch perhaps.

[fluffstalker]

Well looking at the names Azrael, Ezekiel, Id say start with those as a base point and expand.

P.S did a bit more research and looks like anything angelic, middle eastern, jewish, and old christian names are good for Dark Angels. Azrael comes from the Arabic word Azra'il, and is the name for the Angel of Death.

Just from that, Wikipedia gave me the following variations of the name! Izrail, Izrael, Azriel, Azrail, Ezraeil, Azraille, Azryel, or Ozryel.

Good luck.

[Lion El Jason]

Many of the names given toDA characters are, unsurprisingly, Angels... so a lot were Hebrew names but were ascribed to the characters in medieval times.

Its interesting to look at which of the DA characters were given names of Angels (Azrael, Angel of Death for example was Loyal) and which fell (Asmodai was a king of demons after the fall in jewish tradition).

[konate]

How would you beat this?


HQ: CCS - 2 x plasmas, autocannon, CC w/bolt pistol
Chimera w/Multi-Laser & Heavy Flamer
HQ: Demon Hunter Inquisitor Lord,bolt pistol/ccw, Psychic hood, Emperors Tarot & 3 x mystics

Elites: Marbo
Elites: Psychic Battle Squad with 4 extra pyskers (8 pyskers total + overseer)
Chimera w/Multi-Laser & Heavy Flamer
Troops: PCS w/4 x flamers, bolt pistol
Infantry Squad w/autocannon
Infantry Squad w/autocannon
Troops: Veterans Squad w/3 x meltas
Chimera w/Multi-Laser & Heavy Flamer
Troops: Veterans Squad w/3 x meltas
Chimera w/Multi-Laser & Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack: Vendetta w/3 x TL Lascannons & Heavy Bolter
Fast Attack: Vendetta w/3 x TL Lascannons & Heavy Bolter
Fast Attack: Banewolf w/ Multimelta, search light, smoke launchers

Heavy Support: 2 x Hydras w/Heavy bolter
Heavy Support: Manticore w/Heavy Flamer
Heavy Support: Manticore w/Heavy Flamer


this player is dominating an 1850 pt tournament of 16 players. He's won another tournament as shooty Orks.

If he goes first, he puts everything on the table and pretty much decimates whole armies in the first turn or two of shooting.

If he goes second, he places the Hydras in one corner and Manticores in the other; then parks all his Chimeras around them to block LOS. He will also deep strike the Vendettas.

[grave digger]

konate,

hate to say it but Deathwing Assault may be funny vs. this list. I'd like to see him drop those Manticore rounds close to his line. Just a thought.

On names for Terminators. I once wrote down each active member on this thread (or was it two threads ago?) one the base with a "Brother" in the front. Added a touch of class I thought.

Diggs

[Toe Cutter]

Nah - deathwing assaulting is just putting your head in a wood chipper - being within 12" of a load of guard units is neither pretty nor clever and will sting.

Don't let him alpha strike. If he goes first, keep your stuff in reserve.

You don't have to table him but you do have to make sure he doesn't table you.

His Manticores at S10 will damage your raiders given a chance but they're only AP4 so your terminators will get a save.

The counter to that is that his vendettas will eat any squad in the open on toast (don't understand why he'd want to deep strike them though - rather odd) while not doing a huge amount to your landraiders (wouldn't expose them to too many salvoes from these blokes though).

His melta vets will be looking to burn towards your raiders as quick as possible and bust them in suicide runs obviously.

I'd mech up and take an AT dreadnought or two (though the dreadnoughts will cry if you don't keep your raiders between them and the hydras). Destroy the meltavets chimeras first, preferably with your dreadnoughts. Shoot down the manticores with the same (twinlinked autocannon dreads for the win against AV12).

Right - coming on from reserve - if you can draw reasonable line of site to the manticores try and shoot them with your dreads. If not use your dreads to burst some of the chimeras around the manticores.

Steam your raiders up as fast as possible towards the manticores, popping smoke. Look to assault as many units as possible at any one time but make sure you contact at least one unit of infantry and try not to contact that unit with too many of your troops - ideally you want to cause only a couple of casualties and give them a leadership test that they can pass while wiping out two or three vehicles with your other blokes. Then in his turn, your squad contracts back into his infantry unit -chins a load of them makes them flee and lets you launch another assault at the start of your turn.

If you can get his veteran squads or command squad into combat early on then you're damaging his AT ability or his ability to kill terminators efficiently. Both results are good. While this is happening use any mobile raiders to block other chimeras getting into the area - mech guard are prone to traffic jams - and use any dreads that are still mobile (not likely as the hydras will be looking to destroy these as they'll be the only viable target) to burst more chimeras to increase the traffic jam effect and provide more soft bodies to assault into.

Hit with everything at one point and make sure every unit that assaults, assaults as many targets as possible. Single squads of guardsmen are not good in combat - marginally better than their vehicles but only marginally. Blobbed squads with straken nearby is an exception but he doesn't appear to be using any.

[Zeroth]

I never leave home without my Librarian, but I also never leave home without my Land Raiders

I think list 1 looks best, haven't tried using Dreadnoughts, but can imagine they are better by number.

Coming to WWVII in Bergen KaldCB?
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Bergen_Bolt...pic/8168687/1/

[konate]

Don't let him alpha strike. If he goes first, keep your stuff in reserve.

Deepstrike them all then?

(don't understand why he'd want to deep strike them though - rather odd)

He'll only do that when he's not going first, to protect them. He has a very aggressive set up when he goes first, with nearly everything off of his table edge.

Shoot down the manticores with the same (twinlinked autocannon dreads for the win against AV12)

They are protected pretty tightly in the corner (as are the Hydras) either by terrain or other Chimeras. They don't need LOS to operate (obviously); so, looks like popping some of the Chimeras around it is best.

Hit with everything at one point and make sure every unit that assaults, assaults as many targets as possible.

Did I mention that the scenario is played on the table longways?
We can each set up 10" from the center point, which means I've got 46" to go to reach his back table edge (where his will probably set up - he sets up that way for certain if he goes 2nd). So, do you recommend deepstriking?

[Codsticker]

If any of you have dipped into the other tactica threads you may have become aware that we are starting to be more diligent in removing posts that rightfully belong in the Army List sub-forum. Please, if you would like help with a list, start a thread with the list in the Army List forum, then post a link in this thread and then any discussion concerning that list and it's tactics can take place there.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

[Toe Cutter]

We still ok discussing the current topic as a tactical situation in here though Codsticker?

So let me get this right, you're playing lengthwise on a 6' by 4'?

Let me guess, this was a scenario devised by a long term guard player who's too used to playing his old grossly underpowered codex under the old 4th edition rules where you could jump from one assault to the next without being shot at right?

No wonder the bloke is winning all his games, he's setting up his stuff up to 6 feet away from everyone elses stuff and his is the only army where he can still reach out and touch stuff on the other side of the board.

Personally I'd tell him to grow up, find a pair of brain cells to rub together, a pair of testes to fill out his shorts properly and turn the board the right way round.

I say this as a long term guard player. 40k is not meant to be played the way he's playing it. He's not showing any tactical acumen (as evinced by his completely inept use of vendettas) he's just castling in a corner and using his greater reach to mess up everyones army as they attempt to rush towards him - a blind monkey could play that way and win.

First and foremost, refuse to play him till he plays width ways as the game is meant to be played.

I would still avoid deep striking - even if you spam deathwing squads, the max you'll get on the board at the start will be half of your squads which wont be enough to target overload him, it'll be handing him just enough units to destroy per turn.

If you absolutely must play lengthways, either refuse to play or go double wing and outflank with a load of teleporter armed bike squads and attack bikes. Come on from the flanks straight into combat with his manticores - burst them then deep strike terminator units onto your teleporter beacons. Oh and introduce him to the chaos dreadnought in a sock tactic. Repeatedly. This person is clearly pondlife and should be treated as such with extreme prejudice!

[SabrX]

@Toe Cutter:

Doesn't sound like the guard player is the one organizing the tournament. Can't blame him for captializing on a scenrio that favors his army. It is a tournament, so expect the worst. Yes the scenrio was unbalanced, but I'm guessing there were other games that would favored close-range armies. If not then, the tournament organizers deserve a powerfist to the face.

I wouldn't be surprised if a similar scenrio pops up in upcoming Battle Missions.

[KaldCB]

I never leave home without my Librarian, but I also never leave home without my Land Raiders

I think list 1 looks best, haven't tried using Dreadnoughts, but can imagine they are better by number.

Coming to WWVII in Bergen KaldCB?
http://s8.zetaboards.com/Bergen_Bolt...pic/8168687/1/

Thanks for the response, i may have to try out the different lists, to see which is best.

I don't think I can join the winter wars this year, as kids and wife, keep's me quite ocupied.


Here is a thread in the army list section with the list I have posted before.
Any advice from other deathwing players would be great
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...54#post4383154

[Toe Cutter]

@SabrX - woops perhaps I did go a little overboard on the nerd rage. Silly me. Lol.

[Bartali]

*snip*
If you absolutely must play lengthways, either refuse to play or go double wing and outflank with a load of teleporter armed bike squads and attack bikes. Come on from the flanks straight into combat with his manticores - burst them then deep strike terminator units onto your teleporter beacons.

Oh, if only we had some control over our reseves. The Deathwing are just as likely to come out of reserves before the outflanking Ravenwing

[konate]

yes, it is an organizer made scenario. And, there are other scenarios.

I watched a friend, playing as Eldar, lose before he ever even got his first turn. Afterward, they played a second game for fun. the pressure was off, and the IG player allowed the Eldar player to take first turn. Same result, just a turn later.

This guy has won tournaments before, but as shooty Orks. He is new to the IG. I don't see anyone beating him; except maybe the guy with 9 broadsides. I don't really prefer tournament lists. Don't find them any fun. The IG player is really a nice guy. I thought a mech DW list might be able to counter some of the list (hydras/autocannons maybe even some lascannons). He likes the high volume/ low cost units that when you lose them, there are about 5 others to take its place. When one goes down, "meh". The jewel of the list is the vets with melta guns, or the heavy flamers on the vehicles methinks.

He says he does have problems with drop pod armies, which is why he takes the tarot. It's the sheer volume of fire that overwhelms, but it's mostly autocannons.

Just thought I'd ask some other DW players how they would design a list/tactics to counter this awesome list; especially that one scenario.