Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Perth]

Hey guys, I've been thinking of some 1500 lists for a Deathwing army and was just wondering if anyone could spot anything that could be improved. Roughly 75% of the armies at my local game shop are marines, either blood angels or vanilla, but my main opponent will likely be my brother, who is tooling out a marine killing Tyranid list. I don't know exactly what is in it but I know he wants lots of genestealers. Anyway, here they are.


List 1

Belial
GK Grand Master w/ psy hood

Dreadnought w/ TLLC and ML
Dreadnought w/ TLLC and ML
Dreadnought w/ TLLC and ML

5 Terminators w/ AC
5 Terminators w/ AC
5 Terminators w/ AC and CF

1500 points even.


List 2

Belial

5 terminators w/ AC and CF
5 terminators w/ AC and CF
5 terminators w/ AC and CF
5 terminators w/ AC

Vindicator
Vindicator
Vindicator

Again, 1500 even.


List 3

Belial
Brother Captain w/ psy hood

Dreadnought w/ TLLC and ML

5 terminators w/ AC and CF
5 terminators w/ AC and CF
5 terminators w/ AC and CF

Vindicator
Vindicator
Vindicator

1491 points

[fall3nang3l]

Thanks for the advice. You've convinced me to go shooting.

Guess I should start the long slog of reading through the tactica

[MistaGav]

If I'm right in thinking but with the first list you can probably swap the dreads for Predators with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons...I know not very Deathwing but they are cheaper and can put out a little bit more firepower.

Or maybe swap out one vindi for a pred so you have a nice mix between pred, vindi and dread...actually why haven't I thought of this before?!

[starlight]

Because it's no longer *Deathwing*...

[BrotherSamiel]

Hello. New player here. Haven't played 40k in ages(not that much fan of the rules prefering non-GW games mostly) but decided I might start deathwing army as painting project to see how well I really can paint when I put tons of effort to it. Hopefully I'll get good looking army with it! Small model count should go long way of helping it...

Anyway first box of terminators along with forge world deathwing shoulder pads(part of making these look good will be forge world pieces where applicable. So venerable dreadnoughts will be FW ones and land raiders will have FW doors as well. And every terminator will have FW shoulder pads) ordered and should arrive around next week. Here's army list I'm planning to collect to begin with:

Belial(storm bolter&Sword of Silence)
Interrogator chaplain w/termi armour

5xterminators(assault cannon, chainfist)
5xterminators(assault cannon)
5xterminators(assault cannon)
5xterminators(cyclone missile launcher)

land raider crusader

1500 pts exact!

For 1750 I'll be probably adding 2nd land raider(reqular one probably).

Nothing too original here(DW isn't exactly flexible list...) but thought I might just as well say hi there for other DW players.

Should IC's be together in one squad or split into different squads to spread the effect? Eggs in one basket or in two basket in otherwords?

[Russell's teapot]

Hello Samiel,

You're right in that DeathWing aren't very flexible in the units that they can choose from, however, they are one of the most flexible armies I've ever used once on the table. Mostly because Teminators are good at everything & so are Crusaders.

Have you read through the thread? I appreciate it's long, but it does have some very useful stuff in it. If you check out the first post, the links will help you out a lot in terms of rules we can 'exploit' and general tactics that we have learned work well. It'll mean you don't have to churn through about 6 pages of general smingeing about WolfWing whichj occured at one point

Are you looking to have a competative, or just for fun army. The problem being that there isn't a lot of difference. Our uber-competative armies are not on the 'top tier' of competativeness & it's easy to do DeathWing very badly indeed! I'm glad to see that you're going shooty, it's a good starting point IMO.

Comments on your list & general DeathWing comments:

1) Use melta guns - "Oh noes, but DeathWing don't have meltaguns RT, what am I to do, mai armiez is rubbish!" - we do, but we call them chainfists. They work in combat. Because it's more manly.

2) Your army will only work in a block, isolated units will die quickly - "but I has an army of supa-supa-warriorz, mai opponent can't has that much plasma, lol" - this is a fallacy. The gun you will learn to most fear is the lasgun! Terminators die to plasma guns. Terminator squads die to weight of fire. A big block of terminators can ensure any nearby threat is annihilated with enough guns, a single squad cannot.

3) Your effective range is 24", remember this - "but I has godhamerz & cyclonez wiv a longa range, ha ha my army beatz urs RT!" - incorrect, see point 2, you need to be together. If you are outside 24" most of your army is not shooting = more enemies alive = more dead terminators. If you are inside 24", you are in assault cannon range = using a better gun = more dead enemies = less dead Terminators. If some are in 24", and the rest are sniping at long range = unsupported terminators = many, many dead terminators.

4) Shooting wins turns, assault wins games - "but I haz a shooting army, oh noez, now I'z got a rubbish army!" - Not necesseraly. Not many armies want to be in assault with a squad of 4 powerfists. You also have access to I5 assault power weapons on 2+/4+(and 5+) characters. You may fare best in shooting, but you can disembark from transports, shoot, & asssault all in one turn. Don't be afraid to go into assault, but beware of the dangers of assaulting specialist units.

Have a look around, find list that might suit & ask questions. Your list isn't far off where I started my DeathWing adventure (although, with hindsight yours is better...)

PS I'd recommend this thread as required reading too: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262041

Good luck.

[BrotherSamiel]

Have you read through the thread?

At page 59 ATM Bloody long thread but since I can't play a lot atleast I should have good theory how to play when I get to play first time(whenever THAT is...Since I'll be going for termi box terminators with forge world shoulder pads rather than AOBR termies just for looks(more of a painting project anyway so might just as well go for broke) with forge world vechile kits).

(speaking of which...Land raider doors and FW dreadnoughts...Mere 46£ per dreadnought and 45.25£ per land raider(funnily enough dreadnoughts are more pricey...Butland raider is part plastic kit and no 15% postage on the main piece like FW pieces have!) will mean I won't be getting army ready in a rush. Especially as I'm planning to paint them slow but well.)

Are you looking to have a competative, or just for fun army.

Eventually both. Above is roughly what I'll be aiming first but then I'll be adding to it. CC termies, FW dreadnoughts(including atleast one chaplain dreadnought) etc.

1) Use melta guns - "Oh noes, but DeathWing don't have meltaguns RT, what am I to do, mai armiez is rubbish!" - we do, but we call them chainfists. They work in combat. Because it's more manly.

Not sure how useful those are. Most vechiles in melee I will be striking against rear armour(10-11) so will be toasting them anyway. Though points allowing I'll add few here and there to ease up against land raiders, dreadnoughts etc. For that I'll be magnetising atleast some models so I can switch chainfist in or out as needed(just need to figure out how to magnetise them so that I don't need single spare arm to have pricey FW shoulder pad to boot!

The gun you will learn to most fear is the lasgun! Terminators die to plasma guns. Terminator squads die to weight of fire. A big block of terminators can ensure any nearby threat is annihilated with enough guns, a single squad cannot.

Already figured that one out

3) Your effective range is 24", remember this

Ditto. Already planning to practice ranges over 18" and less than 24". That's the range I figure I'm at my best(outside move+rapid fire but within range of my own guns).

What sort of armies are DW's worst nightmares and fondest dreams? Reading the thread would fast moving tau with tons of firewarriors be among worst nightmares? Long range when needed and hideous firepower within 12"(tons of S5 shots. Precicely what DW fears) with means to GET within 12". And also relatively tough nuts to crack with flying skimmers.

Also any tips on fighting against mechanised forces? Keeping your distance seems tricky when opponents are driving around in bucketloads of rhino's or similar...They will be getting within rapid fire range(with plasma and melta along for added measure) scarily fast. Seems pretty common type of army in local meta.

[Russell's teapot]

Re: chainfists

Not sure how useful those are. Most vechiles in melee I will be striking against rear armour(10-11) so will be toasting them anyway. Though points allowing I'll add few here and there to ease up against land raiders, dreadnoughts etc. For that I'll be magnetising atleast some models so I can switch chainfist in or out as needed(just need to figure out how to magnetise them so that I don't need single spare arm to have pricey FW shoulder pad to boot!

2 reasons for chainfists:
1) Land Raiders - these are out best tools for reliably taking out land raiders, sure, your crusader will have a MM & Assault cannons can do the job, but a chainfist will make sure
2) Dreadnaughts - being stuck in combat with a dread is a 3 fold disaster for us.
a) it stops us shooting
b) you don't get saves in combat against them & they hit first
c) your enemies get to close in without you being able to get away
Being able to dispatch a dread in a single turn of combat is a must, and the chainfist (for only 5 points!) lets you do this.

Ditto. Already planning to practice ranges over 18" and less than 24". That's the range I figure I'm at my best(outside move+rapid fire but within range of my own guns).

Excellent...

What sort of armies are DW's worst nightmares and fondest dreams? Reading the thread would fast moving tau with tons of firewarriors be among worst nightmares? Long range when needed and hideous firepower within 12"(tons of S5 shots. Precicely what DW fears) with means to GET within 12". And also relatively tough nuts to crack with flying skimmers.

Also any tips on fighting against mechanised forces? Keeping your distance seems tricky when opponents are driving around in bucketloads of rhino's or similar...They will be getting within rapid fire range(with plasma and melta along for added measure) scarily fast. Seems pretty common type of army in local meta.

There is no 'good' match up with DeathWing, every game is an uphill struggle. And every game is different, as the flexability of our troops & tanks allows us to use radically different tactics against different units.

Your meta sound eerily familiar... Fast melta is generally the bane of my army, as I run 2 crusaders. However, there are some upsides. Most armies carry melta in troops choices (IG vets, SM tacticals, CSM squads), so while they may take out a tank, a good (multi) charge from you should take out their scoring unit(s) that they used to kill it.

Other fast melta includes:
Speeders - weak armour, shoot the snot out of them until dead - try not to let them near you (unless they are turbobooting for next turns shot, by when they sould be dead...)
Fire dragons - suck it up, very little you can do here...
Deepstrikers - Obliterators, speeders, dreadnoughts. Again little you can do...

You can use troops to 'bubblewrap' (I hate the term, but it seems to be the current word du jour...) your tanks to protect them (or visa versa is fast plasma is the problem), but it's very situational. EDIT - using terrain wisely will also help.

Against fast plama, just hide in your tanks, they can't do anything... This is part of the reason I use 2 crusaders at 1500 points, the other obviously being manoverability (for better firing positions, and a 21.5" assault radius...)

Depending on the situation, my generally prefered route is to get to the centre of the table as fast as possible so that you have most of the board covered by your 24" range. Castling will help in almost every situation.

But like I say, I rarely play the same game twice with DeathWing. Even against the same opponent with the same list, one day I may play defwensive, the next very aggresively. The main vairable being your opponents deployment (if you're going 2nd), and the terrain.

[BrotherSamiel]

Being able to dispatch a dread in a single turn of combat is a must, and the chainfist (for only 5 points!) lets you do this.

True but if I have to choose between 2 chainfist or ass.cannon rather than CML I think I'll go for assault cannon.

Spare 5 pointers will go for chainfists though. However on above list I really don't want to swap another assault cannon for CML to make room for more chainfists. Definetely not looking for dropping LRC or termi squad...

Your meta sound eerily familiar... Fast melta is generally the bane of my army, as I run 2 crusaders.

Well I'm judging the meta from looking at army lists people post on forums but rhino's etc are abundant. One fellow had rhino's for every squad(even devastators! I presume they will be used as moving terrain...) and another had razorbacks for his space wolves(atleast small squads to deal with).

Chaos lots of rhino's, tau's with devilfish. IG seems to be mostly non-mechanised infantry but they have plenty of infantry(better to avoid 12" range there with their quazillion lasguns I presume! Especially with their orders. NOT looking forward to couple squads firing 30 lasgun shots plus rest of the squads as well...SURE those 30 shots only take out less than 1 terminator in average but potential to wipe out more and that's just one cheap squad with no special weapons...) and tanks(luckily non-demolishers and non-executioners(rare) don't worry that much. Though punisher adds another 20 dice and it's low AP isn't issue vs deathwing.

so while they may take out a tank, a good (multi) charge from you should take out their scoring unit(s) that they used to kill it.

Yeah I think my default will be to concentrate on troops first unless there's critical target to deal with(plenty of crisis suits with plasma rifle for example. Those can hurt). They score, they often pack biggest amount of rapid fire guns I want to avoid.

Speeders - weak armour, shoot the snot out of them until dead - try not to let them near you (unless they are turbobooting for next turns shot, by when they sould be dead...)

If there's squadron of these might it be good idea to DWA 1 squad if you figure you can't easily get LOS to them on 1st turn and terrain allows them annoyingly safe route just to be able to position them to spot where they could shoot? Shoot and then walk around to rejoin rest of their brethen. Not DWA'ing middle of opponents army obviously!

You can use troops to 'bubblewrap' (I hate the term, but it seems to be the current word du jour...) your tanks to protect them (or visa versa is fast plasma is the problem), but it's very situational. EDIT - using terrain wisely will also help.

If opponent has to shoot through terminators which cover LR(I presume atleast half the raider screened by termies to qualify?) it counts as obstructed? (no rulebook yet. First priority is models as I'm not in a rush to play before army is ready. Since I'm playing mostly in tournaments I need that 1500/1750 before I CAN play...)

[Russell's teapot]

True but if I have to choose between 2 chainfist or ass.cannon rather than CML I think I'll go for assault cannon.

Spare 5 pointers will go for chainfists though. However on above list I really don't want to swap another assault cannon for CML to make room for more chainfists. Definetely not looking for dropping LRC or termi squad...

There's a school of thought (which I ascribe to fully) that the CML is a waste of points anyway. In case you haven't got that far here's my list:

Belail - TLC
Chaplain - TDA
DeathWing squad - AC, CF (on different models, obviously, as you'll have seen in the wound allocation post)
DeathWing squad - AC, CF
DeathWing squad - HF, CF
Crusader
Crusader

In my opinion, that is as competative as you can make DeathWing at 1500 points. However, the Dreadwall is another tactic that I think could work.

Well I'm judging the meta from looking at army lists people post on forums but rhino's etc are abundant. One fellow had rhino's for every squad(even devastators! I presume they will be used as moving terrain...) and another had razorbacks for his space wolves(atleast small squads to deal with).

Rhinos should be dealt with by ACs. It's worth noting that the rhino wall tactic doesn't bother us too much, as this is best used to screen incoming shots from range - which we don't have.

Chaos lots of rhino's, tau's with devilfish. IG seems to be mostly non-mechanised infantry but they have plenty of infantry(better to avoid 12" range there with their quazillion lasguns I presume! Especially with their orders. NOT looking forward to couple squads firing 30 lasgun shots plus rest of the squads as well...SURE those 30 shots only take out less than 1 terminator in average but potential to wipe out more and that's just one cheap squad with no special weapons...) and tanks(luckily non-demolishers and non-executioners(rare) don't worry that much. Though punisher adds another 20 dice and it's low AP isn't issue vs deathwing.

I wouldn't worry too much about Tau. I've played in 4 GTs, and fought them twice, they're fairly rare, and Broadsides taking out your tanks are really the only issue. The crisis suit plasma doesn't have the range to really bother terminators too much...

The worst Chaos tactic against us, I've found, is the Lash/Obliterator plasma cannon combo - which can be somewhat mitigated if you can kill the DP, or keep your LRs alive (preferably both )

I'm not sure on you assessment of IG. MechVetSpam is horrendous. In fact I've been trying to think of a way to beat my 1500 IG list with DeathWing, & I'm not convinced it can be done. Let's throw it out onto the floor:

How would my army above beat this list on any given day?

HQ - CCS - 3 x melta, chimera
Elite - Stormtrooper x 5, 2 x melta
Troop - vet squad, 3 x melta, chimera
Troop - vet squad, 3 x melta, chimera
Troop - vet squad, 3 x plasma gun, chimera
Troop - platoon:
command squad - 3 x flamer
blob squad - commisar, 2 squads, 2 x autocannon
blob squad - commisar, 2 squads, 2 x autocannon
Fast - banewolf
Heavy - hydra
Heavy - hydra
Heavy - basilisk

Punishers are a joke, if they're taking that, then they aren't taking a load of good stuff...

Yeah I think my default will be to concentrate on troops first unless there's critical target to deal with(plenty of crisis suits with plasma rifle for example. Those can hurt). They score, they often pack biggest amount of rapid fire guns I want to avoid.

Good choice

If there's squadron of these might it be good idea to DWA 1 squad if you figure you can't easily get LOS to them on 1st turn and terrain allows them annoyingly safe route just to be able to position them to spot where they could shoot? Shoot and then walk around to rejoin rest of their brethen. Not DWA'ing middle of opponents army obviously!

Can work, although you have 24" or range, as does he with his melta (although really needs to get into 12" - to do this he will be within 24" in order to be able to shoot next turn. Boots on the floor should gun most of a squadron down, or at least stop them shooting.

If opponent has to shoot through terminators which cover LR(I presume atleast half the raider screened by termies to qualify?) it counts as obstructed? (no rulebook yet. First priority is models as I'm not in a rush to play before army is ready. Since I'm playing mostly in tournaments I need that 1500/1750 before I CAN play...)

Correct.

[BrotherSamiel]

There's a school of thought (which I ascribe to fully) that the CML is a waste of points anyway. In case you haven't got that far here's my list:

I would think that CML beats chainfist for shooty-DW list. Could be wrong though.

And if CML is waste of points then HF is even worse atleast for shooty DW. I don't WANT to be within flaming distance

Rhinos should be dealt with by ACs. It's worth noting that the rhino wall tactic doesn't bother us too much, as this is best used to screen incoming shots from range - which we don't have.

I'm somewhat worried about rhino being used to block LOS to those juicier targets that are a) scoring b) packing tons of rapid fire guns. I would like to pour some firepower at THEM rather than useless rhino.

One AC stops 0.37 rhino's per round(destroyed or immobilised). Guess I need to live with that. About rhino per round if I concentrate firepower. That's if they don't have cover which I'm doubtful about.

I'm not sure on you assessment of IG. MechVetSpam is horrendous.

Wasn't talking about efficiency. Talking about what sort of army lists I see tossed around in local(well local as in nation wide) forum by IG players going to tournaments. As I said I'm just re-entering 40k so haven't played any games yet so I'm basing idea of what I can face by reading army lists people toss around.

Sure infantry heavy IG might be piece of cake compared to MechVetSpam but if local IG players enter to tournament with mostly basic foot sloggers with basic leman russes that's not really an issue now is it? Not everybody min-maxes to hell armies even in tournament Generally speaking there's bunch of players who min-max to death, bunch of people who take competive armies but not neccessarily favour of the month type, bunch of players who take fluffy/stylish choice and bunch of newbies who take just what they have and like.

First and last group seems to be smallest portions, 2nd largest and 3rd 2nd largest. MechVetSpam would probably be list 1st tier and some 2nd tier groups(2nd tiers might not neccessarily fine tune it to perfection) use. And I'm unlikely face them except at bad luck at beginning as I'm usually in tournaments around middle-bottom in ranking and swiss ensure that the 1st tiers usually fight it among themselves while I'm fighting more fun lists

Can work, although you have 24" or range, as does he with his melta (although really needs to get into 12" - to do this he will be within 24" in order to be able to shoot next turn. Boots on the floor should gun most of a squadron down, or at least stop them shooting.

Issue isn't so much range but LOS. They are rather speedy + skimmers to boot so they could hop around behind terrain denying my poor foot slogging terminators any LOS until they get within 12" of LRC to toast it.

Now albeit I have ZERO idea how much terrain tournaments around here actually use. That I need to find out by first buying all the models(about 150£), then spend tons of time to PAINT the models(provided tournament requires painted armies. Some do, some don't. Might consider entering tournament prematuredly if they don't require fully painted army) and then go and enter few tournies

Might be that terrain is sufficiently light on LOS blocking terrain(now that forrests don't block anymore due to that crappy true LOS rule) that I CAN shoot at land speeders even at range, albeit with them having cover.

[Russell's teapot]

If you want to see what competative lists are being used at tournaments, I'd recommend checking out:

Yes the Truth Hurts: http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/ - shield your eyes if you are under 16, and be prepared to have to work to find what you want, but it's worth it!

3++ is the new black: http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/

These site, among others, will give you an idea of what you need to be beating. If you can figure those lists out, then others shouldn't be a problem.

Truely though, my opinion, and those of others on the thread, are a guide only, your experiences may not match ours. However, this thread is more focussed than most on highlighting competative play & playstyles.

I'd recommend getting in some games before you enter a tourny. 40k is a steep learning curve, and you've picked one of the hardest armies to use!

[BrotherSamiel]

I'd recommend getting in some games before you enter a tourny. 40k is a steep learning curve, and you've picked one of the hardest armies to use!

Against...Whom?-)

As far as I know I'm only player of ANY miniature game around here. It's time to go to another town/city if I want an opponent. Why you think I mainly play on the tournaments in a first place?

[Bartali]

There's a school of thought (which I ascribe to fully) that the CML is a waste of points anyway.

Disagree

For example playing against mech eldar with AC heavy DW and it's pretty much an auto-win for the Eldar before any dice have been thrown. AC's rending doesn't work on Wave Serpents, and they have the mobility to stay away from 24" while shooting you.

CML's allow you to shoot stuff at >24" that you absolutely don't want near you - MM Land Speeders, Transports with nasty stuff inside etc, or stuff that can shoot you from >24" away.

They also cost 10pts less than an AC and their Marine counterpart CML's, freeing up points for a ML Dread arm, couple of chainfists, combi-melta on a Chappy or Lib etc

[Russell's teapot]

Disagree

Well someone has to!

For example playing against mech eldar with AC heavy DW and it's pretty much an auto-win for the Eldar before any dice have been thrown. AC's rending doesn't work on Wave Serpents, and they have the mobility to stay away from 24" while shooting you.

A wave serpant can shoot at me all day if it wants, given the expense of Lances & Star cannons, it's unlikely to have them, so it can't actually hurt me... Unless it want to unload some troops, then it needs to be be near me!

CML's allow you to shoot stuff at >24" that you absolutely don't want near you - MM Land Speeders, Transports with nasty stuff inside etc, or stuff that can shoot you from >24" away.

Yes, and an assault cannon lets me fire a better gun, at a better range for the army. Apples and pears really. I've very rarely found that something I need dead is outside of 24" range. But maybe that's a playstyle thing...

They also cost 10pts less than an AC and their Marine counterpart CML's, freeing up points for a ML Dread arm, couple of chainfists, combi-melta on a Chappy or Lib etc

A heavy flamer is even cheaper. Kills more GEqs too.

[Frogczar]

Disagree

For example playing against mech eldar with AC heavy DW and it's pretty much an auto-win for the Eldar before any dice have been thrown. AC's rending doesn't work on Wave Serpents, and they have the mobility to stay away from 24" while shooting you.

CML's allow you to shoot stuff at >24" that you absolutely don't want near you - MM Land Speeders, Transports with nasty stuff inside etc, or stuff that can shoot you from >24" away.

They also cost 10pts less than an AC and their Marine counterpart CML's, freeing up points for a ML Dread arm, couple of chainfists, combi-melta on a Chappy or Lib etc

As a fan of the Cyclone only in theory, I have to disagree. In practice, they aren't very useful (maybe when they get Heavy 2, they might be).

As a strictly shooty Deathwing player (I don't use LRCs or assault termies of any sort), I find that if you want to reach out and touch armor, you're better off using Lascannons on Dreads and Godhammers.

The assault cannon is just such a better buy for the points.

-Frog

[dynamic]

Was on here a few weeks ago asking for opinions on a dual apothecary list. Finally put one together and posted in Army list forum. I'll probably have a chance to try it out next week.

Cheers!

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268208

[Russell's teapot]

you're better off using Lascannons ... Godhammers.

Frog, you just killed a puppy

[Bartali]

A wave serpant can shoot at me all day if it wants, given the expense of Lances & Star cannons, it's unlikely to have them, so it can't actually hurt me... Unless it want to unload some troops, then it needs to be be near me!

Agreed, nobody really takes Starcannons these days. In 1500pts at >24" with Eldar I would have :-

5xS8 AP2
1xS9 AP2 Blast
8xS6 AP6

With just 24" range on your guns I'll either have you pinned in cover not being able to shoot me, or you'll try to chase me - again, not so good when playing Eldar. Also factor in that it's possible with a bit of jammy distance gauging to get a Fire Dragon squad shooting at you, without you having a chance to shoot the Serpent first

As a fan of the Cyclone only in theory, I have to disagree. In practice, they aren't very useful (maybe when they get Heavy 2, they might be).

They're only 20pts though, 10 less than a Space Marine CML or an Assault Cannon. 10pts buys you a Missile Launcher arm for a Dread, 2xChainfists etc

[BrotherSamiel]

Observed 40k tournament(couldn't attend as I'm still lacking rules, most of the miniatures(I do have 2 squads short of fw shoulder pads and captain with another squad and rest of fw kits needed coming) and was attending another tournament at the same time anyway) and what I noticed was that mechanised really IS name of the game here. All-mounted marines and eldars, 3 battlewagon ork armies etc. Funnily enough IG armies were the ones with generally least amount of vechiles due to their primary vechiles being rather pricey compared to say SM transports. Tyranids seemed to have plenty of big beasts. Trygon or mawloc(regonised just the overall shape of model. Can't identify which one it was) seemed to be particulary popular.

Good news is that terrain was surprisingly sparse. I had expected 40k tournaments to have more of it. Should help ensuring there are good targets in the open for me while my much smaller army can utilise terrain that is there more effectively.

Guess I need to concentrate on killing scoring units(2-3 troop choices seemed to be norm though SM of course can split them and IG has multiple squads to help) and then count on something staying alive. Eldar could be tricky indeed. 3 battlewagon orks will also be charging amidst my terminators scarily fast...

Just FYI winner had librarian, 2 dreadnoughts w/2 linked autocannon(??? Vanilla marines can take 2 heavy weapon dreads without IA book(which were banned here)?), terminators w/stormshield and thunderhammers w/land raider, 2 tac squads both with lascannon, flamer and razorback, 3 individual attack bikes w/multi-melta and 3 predators with sponson lascannons.

land raider, 2 razorbacks, 3 attack bikes w/multi melta and 3 predators. Plenty of vechiles and land raider busters. 4 scoring squads(5 strong each) with nasty assault terminators.

Theorising how to deal with that army(luckily odds of facing it is slim ) I would assume land speeders would be kill priority #1 as they represent biggest threat for land raider. Then land raider would try to tackle predators as well as he can(assuming still alive) while terminators would be concentrating on tactical marines. His land raider and terminators do worry. Very hard to stop HIS land raider and those SS&TH termies will munch through my units pretty darned fast while shrugging of power fists. Probably will lose one squad and then need to concentrate firepower against them. Hopefully my squad will die completely on his charge! Belial and chaplain will be around where they seem to be to lead counter attack if needed. Not at front line though so they won't charge me instead.

Dreadnoughts are least worry so them I can ignore. Albeit they do chuck out 8 S7 shots with rerolls to hit but I have 2+ save and there's LOT bigger threats available.

10 lascannon shots per turn(2 twinlinked) will also be rather tricky. 4 termies per turn if they are left unchecked. I definetely need to use terrain to block some of them and get rid of predators as well as I can.

(though I would have 2 land raiders at this point level. 2 LRC or LRC and LR? Now that is the question )