Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[grave digger]

This is how I'd go too. In fact my next 40k game I was going to use this Way to steal my thunder Red!

Not been playing much lately - have got into AI and Blood Bowl. 20 years of 40k (playing at least a game a week for about 15 of those) meant I burnt out! My opponents were getting bored of 2+ with LR and the IG list of doom. If I'm honest, so was I.

I tried a space marine list the other day - tacticals suck! Terminators FTW!

I'm back to 40k now, and after a couple of months off - raring to go! Time for a change - bring out your Dreads!

AI and Blood Bowl are both worthy time distractions. Good to have you back RT.

Diggs

[Russell's teapot]

Ok then. Dreadnaughts are go!

Here are 2 1500 point armies. Which do you think is better & why?

DeathWing 1500 points 1:

HQ: Belail - TLC - 130pts

HQ: Librarian - TDA - 145pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - AC/DCCW - 125pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - TLLC/DCCW & EA - 160pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - TLLC/DCCW & EA - 160pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 1 x PF, 1 x PF & apothecary, 1 x AC - 280pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 2 x PF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 2 x PF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Total: 1500pts

DeathWing 1500 points 2:


HQ: Belail - TLC - 130pts

Elite: Venerable dreadnaught - TLLC/DCCW & EA - 180pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - TLLC/DCCW & EA - 160pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 1 x PF, 1 x PF & apothecary, 1 x AC - 280pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 2 x PF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 2 x PF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 1 x CF, 2 x PF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Total: 1500pts

I can see plusses and minuses in each. In the first the troops look more survivable (in that they all have an apothecary), but there aren't very many of them.

In the second, there's a shed-load of troops, but they don't get much in the way of super-saves, and with only 2 armoured targets at AV12, it looks a little easy to take them out...

To get to 1750 points I think I'd go with list 1 plus another Terminator squad.

[aekold666]

I would go for the second list. Your fire output is greater, while also having 5 more scoring bodies.

[Kabniel]

I like the second 1500 list you posted over the first one. You'll come out on top based on volume of fire compared to the first list. You are probably right to be concerned about only two AV12 targets. I'd still be concerned about only three AV12 targets. If I am going to focus on having AV work in my list, I go all out. I'll put in two troops and fill the rest of the points up with AV. Outfit the AV12 with long range stuff, TLLC/ML or Mortis AC's. Then the AV14 stuff gets short ranged firepower to run up the guts. I feel the immediate threats of things like Crusaders causes people to ignore the AV12 for a turn or two. I'll also use dreads to screen Godhammers depending on the situation.

I don't find Extra Armor to be worth it. When my opponents shoot at any armor I have, more than one hit is scored. I don't think I've ever had a shaken/stunned result that wasn't matched with a wrecked. That's just my personal luck and experience though.

Similarly, I have never rolled a rending result until a game I played last weekend. Then I got 2. It was kind of exciting to see what all the fuss is about finally. Only took me how many years?

If memory serves my current 1750 list involves something like:
Belial - TLC
Choppy squad, 2 hammers, 3 TLC
2x Shooty squads, with AC
Mortis with 2 TL Autocannons
Dread with TLLC/ML
Dread with PC/ML
LR
LRC with extra storm bolter

Very pleased with it thus far. I tried to get a blend of long range and mid range. I don't get much in the way of variety in opponents though. Marines based or 'Nids.

[Russell's teapot]

If memory serves my current 1750 list involves something like:
Belial - TLC
Choppy squad, 2 hammers, 3 TLC
2x Shooty squads, with AC
Mortis with 2 TL Autocannons
Dread with TLLC/ML
Dread with PC/ML
LR
LRC with extra storm bolter

Hello Kabniel. It's not often I say this - but that's got the makings of a good army that just might get AV14 to work in 1750.

It's also the first army I think I have ever seen where the Godhammer makes sense! Well done you!

If I were to play with this I'd go for:

HQ: Belail - TLC - 130pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x HF - 225pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Troop: DW squad - 1 x sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x AC - 250pts

Heavy: Godhammer - 250pts

Heavy: Crusader - 250pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - ML/AutoC - 135pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - ML/AutoC - 135pts

Elite: Dreadnaught - DCCW/AutoC - 125pts

Total - 1750pts

That's enough shots to de-mech most of an IG army! And looks like to could deal with a horde too... Bloody good effort sir. I have learned something new - that makes today a good day.

[Kabniel]

Thanks!
The only regrets I ever really have with the list is having one or two more thunder hammers in the choppy squad when I face lots of monstrous creatures.

I also wonder about using a drop pod to get the choppy squad behind the opponent early on. Usually I just have them in the Crusader as my counter attack or up-the-flank unit.

Also deploying in as little space as possible helps. Or your army on one side with the 3 dreads in the opposite corner. Your opponent, depending on army, has to divide his attention.

I suppose those are the basic basics on how I play the list.

[Lion El Jason]

Yeah, Thunder Hammers are just not worth it (Well, not until a codex update, I think we're 3 codexes away from DA being ruined ) for us, Chain fists and storm bolters are just a better option. Instead of a 2x TLC, 2x TH&SS squad we may as well have 2x TLC, 1c Chain fist and a power fist/ heavy flamer. Still have the 2 double strength options and the sgt and TLCs give lots of I attacks, we also have 4 SB shots and a heavy weapon.
Personally I prefer to swap out the TLCs for PF/SB too.

Note you can't put deathwing in a drop pod. Teleport only and that's a particularly bad idea IMO. In the crusader is best.

[Kabniel]

re: drop pod
ah righto. I've never really looked into it.

re: thunder hammers
Mostly I agree. However, I find them to be awesome against MCs that strike at I5 or higher. Tyrants and Trygons for example. Something about getting caught by a WS8 St8 I6 A6 MC, I can rely fairly on at least one TH hit. So the next round of combat (if i'm alive) we hit at the same time.

heh. So you would swap out the TH/SS for TLC, then swap out the TLC for PF/SB, add a chainfist and a heavy flamer. Not much of a choppy squad then! I see what you are saying. I couldn't help but twist it a little.

I've thought about putting a heavy flamer into that squad, but I haven't gotten around to it. I also never come across anything that screams "Flame Me!" that the bolters haven't already taken out. The choppy squad really does mostly big gribbly hunting. Probably the only thing stopping me from running a full TH/SS squad is the whole, TH/SS suck in the long run. Having a blend is too important in my games.

[Red_Lep]

Sad story for my Deathwing, funny to everyone else:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280342

[Russell's teapot]

Ok, I got 2 games in at the weekend, using a dread list (see list 2 from post 3562 above).

Played against an 'interesting' list:

Blood angels 1500:
Librarian (cover save & S10 powers)
Blood talon Dread
Blood talon Dread
MM dread
Vindicator
Vindicator
5 x ASM with LRC
5 x ASM with LRC

First game was KP & 12" set up - I went first. I set up behind some hills as far forward as I could. My opponent set up vehicles around a building. The vidi's covered the dreads & the LRs took the flanks.

By the end of turn 1 I'd pretty much won, having immobilised & shaken one vindicator meaning that all his dreads had to walk around it & the second vindicator had to take the long way round so couldn't shoot on turn 1. By the end of turn 3 the other vindicator was destroyed and all the dreads were dead.

I had some heroic dice on my rending - which helped a lot

And LRC's are simpley cheese! So many shots! I'm glad I don't fight against them very often!

Result - opponent conceded turn 4 - won 6KP-0KP


Game 2 - I was a little worse for wear, so tactics went out the window a bit

Oppoment won the toss to go first on a 5 objective table quarter mission. I thought I'd try deepstriking. I regretted deepstriking.

Blood talon dreads eat terminator squads. If you weren't aware of this, you will be. His 2 dreads took out 3 squads of terminators, the last being vaporised by a vindicator shell to the apothecaries head. I killed a librarian in the whole game - which I achieved by a dreadnaught headbutting a vindicator shell so hard it deviated 8" onto him. With skill like that, who need Land Raiders?

Result - lost Turn 6, wiped out - opponent held 2 objectives


In summary, this army I think plays how I thought it would, but it needs further field testing. Reports will come from the front as they are available...

[grave digger]

RT,

the problem with the list that you present is one that I have experienced in a tournament setting. Without transport the army faces an uphill battle to achieve objectives. A few armies that are dominating the scene can sit back and whittle down our forces out of AC range. Namely Tau and IG. I've faced a variant on the Leaf Blower list and it was no fun from the get go. The 24" synergy you get from such an army is great as long as the enemy is willing to walk into range.

Now I've had great experience using this type of list against Tyranids (old dex, have yet to fight them in the new), Marines of various stripes, Orks, Sisters of Battle and once even facing a Ravenwing army (I swear they were all Fallen!). Any army that needs to come to me I can do well against but if I need to get that other objective to win I often can only hope for a draw.

Keep playing the list and remember the Mantra, I mean REALLY remember the Mantra for this type of force.

Diggs

[aekold666]

Last weekend was the Dutch GT and I attended with my deathwing. It went really really well and in the end I finished 6th out of the 120.

For those who are interested, a full report can be read here:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/i...owtopic=213914

[Russell's teapot]

Well done aekold!

I'll have a good read later...

[magicmonkey]

hi all, im new here.
i was wondering if you could help with my deathwing, as i dont know what to buy
i have 3 shooty squads with ac,a spare hf, an apothecary and belial.
an assualt squad and interorgator chaplain.
3 vidicators and a mmdread for vehicles. as well as many unneccesary rhinos.
i also have a pf,melta,missile tac squad if needed.
what should i get to get my deathwing up to a decent 1500 point list? i want to be competetive and a bit WAAC without the beard and rules lawyerness.
what are some nice cheap builds?
i can afford maybe 2 units, any ideas?

[fall3nang3l]

I killed a librarian in the whole game - which I achieved by a dreadnaught headbutting a vindicator shell so hard it deviated 8" onto him.

Give that dreadnought a medal

[aekold666]

Magicmonkey, how about the following:

belial

squad with apoth, ac and chainfist 280
squad with ac and chainfist 250
squad with ac and chainfist 250

2 vindicator 250

That give you a solid base and 290 points to play with. You could get a land raider for that or 2 dreadnoughts or maybe a fourth terminator squad. While vindicators are not 100% deathwing I find that they fill a void in a standard deathwing list. They give you some nice options to play with. First the AC destroys the rhino, then the vindicator kills the passengers. Or you could use them to pop land raiders or other vindicators. More so, people are scared of them and focus on them, giving your terminators some breathing space.

[Russell's teapot]

Magic monkey.

If you can afford 2 units - I'd suggest 2 LRCs. The most competive shooting build at 1500 that I've found is:

Belail - TLC
Chaplain - TDA
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x ass can
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x ass can
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x heavy flamer
LRC
LRC

Note that the LRCs are very vulnerable in the current meta. But the meta is shifting as AV12 IG spm, AV11/13 BA & SW spam, and DE AV10 spam - I think that this will mean more long range weapons are being taken, which do't impact LRs as much as melta spam.

[magicmonkey]

well i will probably get a land raider or a pair of dreads. 2 LRC's is a bit expensive in one go and im still only starting out. also would it be worth a unit with belial and a interorgator chap in a land raider?
chances are if i buy anything i will get a lrc and have a list like
Belail - TLC
Chaplain - TDA
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x ass can
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x ass can
DW squad - sarge, 2 x PF, 1 x CF, 1 x heavy flamer
LRC
2 vindicators
but then 2 units still foot slog, and not much armour (a LRC and 2 vindis)
but all the units are heavy, and 2 characters with 3 wounds in a termi squad can be nasty.
not sure about 2 landraiders, might get a box of assualt termies and make some lc, as i just got 5 thunder hammers, and although thss is pretty bad for deathwing, it might work.
@aekold 666 thats currently what im running, with a rhino tac squad and an extra vindi but a few less upgrades, the last game i drew with a rhino, an immobilized vindi, a termi sarge and 1 squad left. he had 2/3 of his army. teach him to play kill points.

[Cut Throat Razor]

@ magicmonkey

Hey, I run a list that uses alot of what you have. My list is competitive and won me 2nd place in a tournament not to long ago.

I run..."Siegewing"...

Belial: 130 + apothecary for one squad 30 = 160

Terminator Squad 1: 5 Termies; sgt, one chainfist, one assualt cannon = 250
Terminator Squad 2: 5 Termies; sgt, one chainfist, one assualt cannon = 250
Terminator Squad 3: 5 Termies; sgt, one chainfist, one assualt cannon = 250
Terminator Squad 4: 5 Termies; sgt, one chainfist, one assualt cannon = 250
Terminator Squad 5: 5 Termies; sgt, one chainfist, one assualt cannon = 250

Vindicator: extra armor and dozer blades = 145
Vindicator: extra armor and dozer blades = 145
Vindicator: extra armor and dozer blades = 145

Total = 1845

...the firepower is great, its slow but deadly. Your opponent has to deal with your vindicators! That means that less firepower will be directed at your terminators. Everything is 24 inches so you get really good at determining what you can and cant shoot. I love it. It is a fun list.

If you were to run a list like this, you would only need two more shooty squads. If you want to get this to 1500 points you could try running what you have and just adding 1 shooty squad and a banner. So something like Belial, 4x shooty squads, 2 vindicators, apothecary and banner. That is something just over 1450...I cant for the life of me remember how much the banner costs.

I hope this helps.

[aekold666]

@Rzaor: What kind of wargear does your vindicator have? I you don't have any wargear your opints are of.