Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[KaldCB]

Well, mainly it hurts me in that I liked using the MMAB as an additional scoring unit - a reason to take the RAS. Now I feel like I may as well take the Predator(s), which in a list that doesn't have any armor in it isn't exactly an upgrade. They're going to get shot with all the AT on the board if my opponent is smart, probably dead by turn 2 or 3.

As for what the game needs.... I don't think those rules were it :P. There was some in there to like, but a lot to hate.

I played another game with my list against SW and destroyed him again.
Had 2 predators and 1 speeder left and 11 terminators + Belial left.
He had almost nothing.

He started with: 4 las/plas razors, 3 squads of Missile launcher long fangs, 7 rhinos with double melta and 2 multi melta speeders. and my predators still survived.

They can take more then you expect, deploy them out of range/sight of most the opponents force. Then use terrain/terminators to get them in cover.
AV 13 with cover and if you hold them out of range of melta with your terminators they will take allot of punishment before going down.

[samiens]

Hey guys, im thinking about building the following 1500 point list for a tournament and wouldn't mind some opinions (its slightly different to the one I posted in army lists):

Belial (TH/SS)

Deathwing squad

TH/SS
TH/SS apothecary
TH/SS banner
TH/SS cyclone
SB/CF


2 Deathwing squads

3 TH/SS
TH/SS cyclone
SB/CF

3 Landspeeder typhoons with multi-meltas

2 autocannon/ lascannon predators with storm bolters

1 Autocannon/ heavy bolter predator

Thanks!

[Finn]

Can you drop the storm bolters from the AC/LC preds to make that third pred AC/LC? I know you'd have to drop something else to fit that, though...

Though honestly, you may not need the second AC/LC pred - it could be AC/HB as well if you're concerned about hordes (you are a little light on mass shooting with all of those TH/SS guys).

[TheDoctor]

You could drop the deathwing banner if you wanted the third autolas pred.

I guess it would be more a matter of personal preference though.

[KaldCB]

I would drop the deathwing banner/storm bolters/chainfists to upgrade the last predator to auto/las.

I would be a little worried with only 3 squads. But it's been a while since last I played 1500points. So 3 squads may be enough.
In the end it's like my 1750 list with one less terminator squad.

[ErictheGreen]

3 is enough at 1500 when you have the predator and speeder support. I find it's not enough when you have bikers as your support, so tend to go 4 and 2 there.

I would second dropping the banner, storm bolter and 1 chainfist to get the second autolas pred. banner is a luxury.

i really have to try this predator list. it's intruiging.

[samiens]

The heavy bolter pred is in to assist with anti-horde, although to be honest im not sure whether its worth it, or whether the missile launchers potentially provide enough fire. That said, im taking the army to a throne of skulls event so im expecting hordes

[Finn]

Belial. th/ss.
5 terminators, 5xth/ss's, cyclone, apoth, banner.
5 terminators, 5xth/ss's, cyclone.
5 terminators, 4xth/ss's, chainfist cyclone.
5 terminators, 4xth/ss's, chainfist, cyclone.
3 x land speeder, mm, typhoon.
3 x predator, autocannon, lascannon sponsons.

I've decided that this is the list I'm going to take to the Colonial GT in March, though with a 5th Terminator squad instead of a 3rd Predator. And with the default 2x TH/SS, CML/PF, SB/PF, SB/CF layout for the DW squads. Apothecary but no banner. And one of my preds will have to be TLLC/HB/SB.

Is the idea to put Belial in the squad with the Apothecary and use it as a pseudo-rock unit? Or should Belial be elsewhere, to provide for two durable squads - one with a plasma sponge, the other with FnP?

[KaldCB]

I've decided that this is the list I'm going to take to the Colonial GT in March, though with a 5th Terminator squad instead of a 3rd Predator. And with the default 2x TH/SS, CML/PF, SB/PF, SB/CF layout for the DW squads. Apothecary but no banner. And one of my preds will have to be TLLC/HB/SB.

Is the idea to put Belial in the squad with the Apothecary and use it as a pseudo-rock unit? Or should Belial be elsewhere, to provide for two durable squads - one with a plasma sponge, the other with FnP?

Good luck with the list.
This is a 1850 point tournament?

I always use Belial with the apothecary unit. They become sort of a rock, but he is manly used as a bullet catcher to save the squad.

Actually I use The apothecary unit with Belial a little behind the other squads as a backup to save it from the worst fire the first turn.
That way when they try to torrent down the Belial squad later in the game they will most likely have lost to much of their firepower to achieve that.

[ErictheGreen]

I've decided that this is the list I'm going to take to the Colonial GT in March, though with a 5th Terminator squad instead of a 3rd Predator. And with the default 2x TH/SS, CML/PF, SB/PF, SB/CF layout for the DW squads. Apothecary but no banner. And one of my preds will have to be TLLC/HB/SB.

Is the idea to put Belial in the squad with the Apothecary and use it as a pseudo-rock unit? Or should Belial be elsewhere, to provide for two durable squads - one with a plasma sponge, the other with FnP?

1800 points? weird limit...

I always put belial elsewhere. While it's nice to have him benefit from FNP, he doesn't get the attacks from the banner anyway and an apothecary+banner squad is enough of a rock as it is. plus they'll suck up a lot of fire, so belial elsewhere might actually get to do something.

[Necr0n]

Hey, so I used to play Deathwing, then switch to double wing, and now im back to deathwing(with support). Im trying to build a competitive list, so any help/comment would be more than welcome.The point limit is 1750.

HQ-130
Belial /w TLC(I'll keep his 5I, its not that I need him to stay alive)-130

Troops-1005

DW Squad Liberation-240
1th/ss-CML,1sb-CF,1sb-PF,1th/ss,1TLC

DW Squad Retribution-240
1th/ss-CML,1sb-CF,1sb-PF,1th/ss,1TLC

DW Squad Annihilation-235
1th/ss-CML,4th/ss

DW Squad Damnation-290
1Th/ss-CML,1th/ss-Apothecary,1th/ss-Banner,1th/ss,1TLC

Fast Attack-225

3 Typhoon Land Speeders(multi-melta)-75x3

Heavy Support-390

3 Predators(AC,LC)-3x130

So that is 1750 exactly. Tell me what you think

[ErictheGreen]

Hey, so I used to play Deathwing, then switch to double wing, and now im back to deathwing(with support). Im trying to build a competitive list, so any help/comment would be more than welcome.The point limit is 1750.

aside from the terminator squad composition (if you look back about 50 pages we had a good old debate on this. general consensus is either 2 thss per squad or all thss), its the same list as kalds and he seems to be having quite some success with it.

i see it as a solid tier 2 list in all its guises - dw+bikes, dw+speeders, dw+speeders and preds. you just have to find what fits your playstyle best. you certainly have some good transport popping power when you bring preds into the equation. however at 1750, i like 5 deathwing squads simply for the extra scoring unit.

[Necr0n]

Thanks a lot! What would you suggest my DeathWing composition? I don't know if I wanna read through 50 pages, so a little sum up would go a long way!

[Captain Collius]

Thanks a lot! What would you suggest my DeathWing composition? I don't know if I wanna read through 50 pages, so a little sum up would go a long way!

3 th ss 1 with cml 2 lc is my preferance

[Finn]

Where are you guys getting 1800 from? It's an 1850 GT. Just need to go buy two boxes of assault terminators, as I've never owned any and for all the years before the last FAQ I scoffed at the idea of buying them.

RE: Necr0n:

If you're playing straight Deathwing (just Termies, maybe with Preds or Speeders to support), you may find yourself lacking fire support or the ability to kill hordes if you put more than 2 TH/SS termies in each squad.

I think I would steer clear of lightning claw Terminators unless you're using a Land Raider. I don't see what they add to a foot slogging list.

[samiens]

I think it depends on your environment and how you play. I've gone overboard on THSS because I mainly want survivability, frankly if I could have a chainfist with a storm shield I would never field a termie without one.

My main concern about running less than 3 per squad is that things like Vendettas could easily push you to take 5+ invulnerables and terminators are too fragile to lose easily
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[Captain Collius]

i agree lc are limited unless you have land raiders to get them there also eveything deathwing player needs CML's they are not optional (unless you want to lose.). i have a unit of regular termies and a unit of assault(both have land raider crusaders(my store meta is very foot and xenos heavy)) the 3++ is very valuable but think of it this way i have my terminator squad behind an ork trukk i shoot two krak missile into it and blow it up. if i assult with my standard termie unit i have my sergeant who has a power sword strike first and he should kill an ork or 2 but there are still 9 other ticked off orks with a nob doing a toal of 31 attacks i could lose my whole unit before i hit them throwin lighning claws and suddenly 3-4 die of the bat and then the odds are a bit more even

[TheDoctor]

I think it depends on your environment and how you play. I've gone overboard on THSS because I mainly want survivability, frankly if I could have a chainfist with a storm shield I would never field a termie without one.

My main concern about running less than 3 per squad is that things like Vendettas could easily push you to take 5+ invulnerables and terminators are too fragile to lose easily
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That's where target priority comes in. I always try to kill stuff like Vendettas or things that ignore my armor first.

If I'm not getting first turn, I will either use cover or deploy my TH/SS squad(s) in front, to give cover to my squads that only have one TH/SS

[Finn]

Now there's an idea...

I may run with that at some point. Field 2 squads with 3 TH/SS, and 3 with 2/1/1 TH/SS... Use the squads with 3 to stand just in front of the squads with 1, and make them function like one offensive unit. The other squad with 2 TH/SS can have Belial (and Apothecary) attached for a third TH/SS, and either go it solo somewhere (DWA maybe?) or provide flanking support to one of the squad couplings.

Really digging the idea of playing a small army that is durable but dishes out some hurt.

[KaldCB]

Now there's an idea...

I may run with that at some point. Field 2 squads with 3 TH/SS, and 3 with 2/1/1 TH/SS... Use the squads with 3 to stand just in front of the squads with 1, and make them function like one offensive unit. The other squad with 2 TH/SS can have Belial (and Apothecary) attached for a third TH/SS, and either go it solo somewhere (DWA maybe?) or provide flanking support to one of the squad couplings.

Really digging the idea of playing a small army that is durable but dishes out some hurt.

Here is my 2 cents.

IMO you are really hamstringing yourself just to get a few storm bolter shots. Not only are you decreasing survivability for the squad, but you are starting to force your army to become much more dependent on support from each other.
You need to have a specific squad in front. What if it dies? you need to use cover? then you will have limited places to deploy and move.
And against assault units with power weapons you will really suffer compared to 4-5 th/ss's.

I cant understand how 10? storm bolters are going to make up for this handicap.

But I know there is allot of different opinions on this matter, this is just mine.
My advice is to try both types yourself, then make an opinion.