Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Droma]

On another note, does someone want to tell me how the hell this list made top 16 at adepticon? List

Like some blogs have stated I guess the competition just wasn't there? I know for a fact my 1850 list would stomp this and with the amount of melta I just have no idea how this list did well.

[Russell's teapot]

He he. I can see why it would do well. It's a meta-breaker.

Land raiders are bad, therefore are not taken. The world breaks down to AV11/12 spam & everyone needs autocannons & missile launchers. Meltas are reduced to compensate & are placed on troops choices to max out guns elsewhere.

Someone puts down 2 land raiders. Enemy scoring units need to be sacrificed to kill them (if they aren't stopped on the way). That leaves less scoring units for terminators to SMASH!

That, and (s)he's probably quite a good player. But powerswords? Noob!

[Bartali]

GK being popular innit ? DW/Raiders are more or less a hard counter to them

[Captain Collius]

note the maxizimed TH/SS.

in that meta As the esteemed teapot noted people weren't maximizing melta.

Also GK have a hard time dealing with AV 14.

[Kelanen]

GK deal with AV14 easily, they should be packed with PsyCannons, which are the most efficient answer outside of melta range. Good GK lists wouldn't take melta even if they had access to to it (which they do btw- multimelta Jokaero and combimelta Inquisitors). The power of GK is in bringing generalist weapons and units that do all jobs, often better than other armies specialists do!

As Russel says, it was a metagame list rather than a beat all-comers, which is precisely what tournaments should be about.

[TheDoctor]

So... I'm newish to Deathwing. I played it (pure Termies) a few times years ago. I also played Ravenwing and a Space Marine Biker list.

So... I'm wanting to run the Doublewing. Is this the right place for that?

I'm looking at the (maybe not so optimal?) 3x Termies and 3x Bikes (2 at 3, 1 at 6, +3xAB) with both Sammael and Belial at 1750. The last time I played anything like that was in 4th and it was pretty awesome against Tau (when they too were formidable). My question is with the Bikes. They're WAY more expensive than the C:SM versions, but they come with Scout. Now, what I used to do was use the Scout move to get an advantageous Deathwing Assault and go from there. But after looking at my numbers (pretty low count), I'm thinking it might be better to drop Sammael and the bigger Bike squad for more Termies. I'd like to add Typhoons, but without Sammael, I can only fit in one since I want to run at least two squads of Bikes. Anyway, I'm gonna run with that this weekend and see how it goes. Any advice on things to look out for would be great.

Does anyone run a Doublewing with any success?

-Reece

Don't run Sammael- I consider it an achievement if my bikes last until turn 3. I also tend to find that one typhoon does not tend to last long, especially if you are not running predators/more typhoons. Sure, the arguement is that the terminators are the bigger threat, but pretty much any army can spare some autocannons/scatter lasers/whatnot to take it down.

For my 1750 list, I usually go with:

Belial 130
-TH/SS
Alpha 265
-x5TH/SS, Apothecary&Cyclone
Bravo 245
-x1 Chainfist, Cyclone&Chainfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Charlie 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Delta 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Echo 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS

RAS 195
-x2 Meltaguns, MM Attack Bike, Meltabombs
RAS 195
-x2 Meltaguns, MM Attack Bike, Meltabombs

1750 exactly

Tactics are pretty simple:
-If going first, deploy in a slightly refused flank (so like middle left of the table, not extreme left). Bikes deploy on either side of your main block of terminators. I usually keep Belial and his command squad in reserve, that way, on turn one, you can teleport him in accurately on the side of your army that needs support.
--Belial and his friends' main job is to speed bump the enemies big close combat unit- and then regular termies can dakka it and charge, if necessary. Failing that, their job is to go kick some ass, since they can usually operate by themselves to a better degree.
-Play for the mission while doing the deathwing shuffle towards your enemies weak spot in his lines. If he castled, then kill his transports and play for the mission.

-If going second, outflank the bikes, and deploy in a full refused flank. I would recommend deploying Belial and his command squad for this. Basically same advice as above applies.

[Bartali]

Not really. Everyone knows you use melta to deal with AV14, which unless you're bringing suicide henchmen, GK don't have.

I still think you're wrong about tournament lists too

[Reece]

Don't run Sammael- I consider it an achievement if my bikes last until turn 3. I also tend to find that one typhoon does not tend to last long, especially if you are not running predators/more typhoons. Sure, the arguement is that the terminators are the bigger threat, but pretty much any army can spare some autocannons/scatter lasers/whatnot to take it down.

For my 1750 list, I usually go with:

Belial 130
-TH/SS
Alpha 265
-x5TH/SS, Apothecary&Cyclone
Bravo 245
-x1 Chainfist, Cyclone&Chainfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Charlie 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Delta 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS
Echo 240
-x1 Chainfist, Cylcone&powerfist, x1 Powerfist, x1 Powersword, x1 TH/SS

RAS 195
-x2 Meltaguns, MM Attack Bike, Meltabombs
RAS 195
-x2 Meltaguns, MM Attack Bike, Meltabombs

1750 exactly

Tactics are pretty simple:
-If going first, deploy in a slightly refused flank (so like middle left of the table, not extreme left). Bikes deploy on either side of your main block of terminators. I usually keep Belial and his command squad in reserve, that way, on turn one, you can teleport him in accurately on the side of your army that needs support.
--Belial and his friends' main job is to speed bump the enemies big close combat unit- and then regular termies can dakka it and charge, if necessary. Failing that, their job is to go kick some ass, since they can usually operate by themselves to a better degree.
-Play for the mission while doing the deathwing shuffle towards your enemies weak spot in his lines. If he castled, then kill his transports and play for the mission.

-If going second, outflank the bikes, and deploy in a full refused flank. I would recommend deploying Belial and his command squad for this. Basically same advice as above applies.

Ahh... Thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Unfortunately, after looking at at it and thinking more about what I want to do, I might switch it up and do more Ravenwing with a couple Termie squads for support. Either way, I'll play around with it some more this weekend when I can get a couple games in. I just have more painted Bikes than I do Termies. I'm still plucking away at em all though.

-Reece

[grave digger]

Rumors, rumors everywhere...

Saw this on BoLS today:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/...boxed-set.html

I can only hope it is true for if it is the Deathwing will get some love.

Diggs

[ravenwing1234]

I have a casual 1000 pt list im playing with.
The base is:
Belial
Combat deathwing squad
Deathwing squad + cyclone
Land raider crusader
Land speeder typhoon

I would like to stick with that as the core.

With the remaining 75 pts which do you guys think is better?

A: Another landspeeder typhoon

B: Extra armor for LRC, apoth + banner + cyclone for the combat squad.

[ErictheGreen]

Typhoon. More firepower to stop the anti land raider stuff

[Russell's teapot]

More for posterity than anything else, but I thought I'd be nice to have a recap of the 'standard' DeathWing lists we've had over the last year to stop us having to write the same thing over & over when new brethren join our hunt for the fallen (what is this? B&C? )

If anyone wants to disagree, we'll have a discussion & I'll update this post. I'm running this off the top of my head, so it's likely I've cocked up somewhere...

The best lists:

1,500 points (list 1,485 points)

Belail - THSS - 130
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Predator - AC/HB - 95
Predator - AC/HB - 95


1,750 points (list 1,750 points)

Belail - THSS - 130
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML, apothecary - 265
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Predator - AC/HB - 95
Predator - AC/HB - 95


1,850 points (list 1,845 points)
Belail - THSS - 130
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML, apothecary - 265
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Predator - AC/HB - 95
Predator - AC/HB - 95
Predator - AC/HB - 95

2,000 points (list 1,985 points)
Belail - THSS - 130
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML, apothecary - 265
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
DW squad - THSS x 5, CML - 235
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Speeder - Typhoon/MM - 75
Predator - AC/HB - 95
Predator - AC/HB - 95


Let battle commence!

[Bartali]

You've forgotten the Raider lists!

[Russell's teapot]

I haven't. I still cry myself to sleep at night remembering when they were good(ish)

I'll add them if there's an outcry.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

Not that I've been paying an inordinant ammount of attention, but what happened to the chain fists? Just not worth the loss of the shields I take it?

[Russell's teapot]

Exactly. Along with sufficient long range suppression fire & MMs on the speeders it's just not worth it anymore.

[ravenwing1234]

Typhoon. More firepower to stop the anti land raider stuff

Thanks, I was leaning towards that too.

@RT
Nice recap. I don't think anyone here disagrees with those being the most optimal for competitive tournament play at this point.
Although there was some debate about AC/HB vs. AC/LC preds, not sure where the points would come from though since those lists don't exactly have any wiggle room.

[ErictheGreen]

didn't we come to the consensus that autocannon/lascannon predators were the best fit for us?

So the 1750 looks more like:
Belial - 130
4x DW squads - all thss, 1 cyclone - 235x4
1 apoth & banner - 55
3 typhoon/mm - 225
3 autocannon/lascannon preds - 130x3
1740 (+2 chain fists if you fancy)

i don't necessarily disagree with the 5 squad version you have up there RT, but autolas just covers a nice niche for us and helps us gain more of an advantafe. autobolter is nice against the horde but doesn't cut it competitively for us. It's different for regular SM who get 125 mortis dreads and double melta in rhinos. they can afford just to plonk down an 85 point AV13 dakka tank.

[Captain Collius]

What about the banner i've often found it to be helpful in putting out an inordinate number of attacks?

Why AC/HB preds over AC/LC i know you get fewer shots but really those lascannons can be important.

[Finn]

Why not 2 auto/las in the 1850 instead of the 3 auto/HB? It's practically the same points and probably exchangeable. You get slightly better anti-mech from the 2, but 3 hulls with the 3. With use of terrain, you don't need a third Predator to give cover to all 3 speeders.