Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Lion El Jason]

I've been away on call for a week but I'm back now, looking to finish the series of tacticas.

I think I'll have to change my mind a little on assault terminator squads. They haven't been popular here but I went away and there's lots around!

Honestly I'm not too concerned, the experience I've had is that lightning claws win over thunder hammers even with the 3+ save.
People will have to correct me if I'm wrong but all I saw was full TH&SS squads. Unloading your tooled up command squad into them will get the enemy squad making ~12-14 3+ saves, more if you have a chaplain. I think the likelyhood is to kill all the enemy, possibly one will get to hit you before your chainfist finishes him off.
If the squad has lightning claws (At all) we may have more problems but we'd clearly still win that fight.

I'm going to force some regular opponents to get some so I can try this out. It may need some more thought, especially if they are in a land raider.

[FaztGitz]

I've been away on call for a week but I'm back now, looking to finish the series of tacticas.

I think I'll have to change my mind a little on assault terminator squads. They haven't been popular here but I went away and there's lots around!

Honestly I'm not too concerned, the experience I've had is that lightning claws win over thunder hammers even with the 3+ save.
People will have to correct me if I'm wrong but all I saw was full TH&SS squads. Unloading your tooled up command squad into them will get the enemy squad making ~12-14 3+ saves, more if you have a chaplain. I think the likelyhood is to kill all the enemy, possibly one will get to hit you before your chainfist finishes him off.
If the squad has lightning claws (At all) we may have more problems but we'd clearly still win that fight.

I'm going to force some regular opponents to get some so I can try this out. It may need some more thought, especially if they are in a land raider.

TH/SS Termies would suffer vs. high PW opponents, but they excel vsing Nob Bikers and Seer Council combined with a Librarian. If they have a chaplain with them too, the results arn't pretty...

When using TH/SS terminators you mainly throw them at big scary MC units, while LC termies can tear apart anything + infantry, but would have more casualties vs. a MC creature. Granted they can still (I have done it many a time) take down MC's with their LC's, but thunderhammers are the prefered choice for me. The problem with them in Deathwing is that they don't get their 3+ save that makes using that I1 weapon worth it. Why not just get a stormbolter and just run a PF TBH. Your -1 to your invulnerable save in CC.... But you gain an extra 2 shots @ 24".

So mainly.... TH/SS squads should be used to -
MC Hunt
Take on Nob Bikerz
Take on Seercouncils
Take on units that could hurt your non-3+ invulnerable terminators *ex big PW squad or a plasmagun heavy squad. They could survive a turn of shooting and then pay them back, while normal terminators might get taken so low...

The problem of the purposes above is that their 3+ save is the only reason they do those things so well.

LEJ - vs. a powerhouse unit with high I PW's the squad would get slaughtered without the 3+ save. It still could get hurt but if you got the frills (8 man Terminator Chaplain, Terminator Libby w/SS + Nullzone in a LR/R/C) then it should rock some units world. Using a LRR *This couldn't be done with deathwing* or LRC you could put wounds on the say spacemarine mega-PW squad or the jetcouncil then assault them getting rerolls to hit and wounding on 2+ and saving yourself on 3+ from their attacks (4+ using deathwing) and I think it could do well, but meh. I think a LRR is a good choice for them just because of the fact you could ruin that mega-SM squad with the cannons them assault the remains. The only thing there is them letting you get close enough to use them =P.

[Lion El Jason]

Never, ever use any TH&SS with Deathwing. the whole idea is pointless beyond LCF.

I'm talking about how to deal with 5 TH&SS terminators with Deathwwing

[swanson4969]

Only 5? A lot of times you will see more and if you dont get the charge you will often lose more than you win....

[Lion El Jason]

If its more than 6 you always get the charge. You have a LR, they don't.

[mrjusting]

pretty sure land raider crusaders can carry 8 termies in the new codex... might be wrong though...

[Grazzy]

New players need to realise that all this talk of LC termies only works with LR's as otherwise you just get shot to pieces cant get into assault. I have seen several lists/reports now with people playing footslogging assault termies and wondering what they are doing.

[bobafett012]

Hey guys, how is everyone doing lately? haven't been around in a bit but wanted to see how everyone was faring against the new IG? i picked up the dex and it loked like alot of REALLY nasty stuff in there(20 shot tanks, 3 shot plasma tanks, a few AP 2 ordnance tanks etc etc).

[Lion El Jason]

pretty sure land raider crusaders can carry 8 termies in the new codex... might be wrong though...

Crusaders yes. The post referred to redeemers I think.
have you seen many such units? If so I'll have a think but I'm still confidant LCs will win over them.

[Khornies & milk]

Hey guys, how is everyone doing lately? haven't been around in a bit but wanted to see how everyone was faring against the new IG? i picked up the dex and it loked like alot of REALLY nasty stuff in there(20 shot tanks, 3 shot plasma tanks, a few AP 2 ordnance tanks etc etc).

I wonder that myself...I actually have an IG list (as well as my DW) that was set up to deal with MEQ lists because 95% of my regular opponents are MEQ.

I have 10 Plasma Guns plus the 5 Plasma pie-plate Russ in my list, so with decent luck on my side I reckon I could cream my DW list, even a multiple LR one because I also have plenty of high strength/AP 1/2 weaponry.

Not a good scenario on the face of it...not saying it couldn't be countered though.

[bobafett012]

I wonder that myself...I actually have an IG list (as well as my DW) that was set up to deal with MEQ lists because 95% of my regular opponents are MEQ.

I have 10 Plasma Guns plus the 5 Plasma pie-plate Russ in my list, so with decent luck on my side I reckon I could cream my DW list, even a multiple LR one because I also have plenty of high strength/AP 1/2 weaponry.

Not a good scenario on the face of it...not saying it couldn't be countered though.

lol, i kind of figured IG would have a leg up. it always seems new codex's with all their new toys get a slight advantage, and considering the DA codex is utter trash i figure we are going to fall behind as more codex's release. i wish they would have just done a redux codex for DA as they did with SM so we wouldn't be out dated pretty much the moment ours released. thats why i built up my ravenguard army from the new SM codex.

[J-man]

lol, i kind of figured IG would have a leg up. it always seems new codex's with all their new toys get a slight advantage, and considering the DA codex is utter trash i figure we are going to fall behind as more codex's release. i wish they would have just done a redux codex for DA as they did with SM so we wouldn't be out dated pretty much the moment ours released. thats why i built up my ravenguard army from the new SM codex.

(emphasis mine)

As someone who's just started a DA army, I'm a little concerned by this comment What, in your opinion, is wrong with it? Apart from 4+ storm shields. Lots of bikes and termies as troops seems cool to me.

Also, do people have much success with plasma cannons on dreads? Or am I better off with the assault cannon? I just thought it would be handy to have some anti-terminator stuff but I realise that a small blast won't cover many termies. Are they good for much else or best left in the store?

[Lion El Jason]

J-man:
Don't worry too much. You can use the DA codex and have a lot of fun. However it is in the bottom three codexes (Necrons, Daemonhunters and DA are the worst in 40k).

Basically, concensus is that the vanilla codex is about balanced. Compared to them we have all the out-dated underpowered wargear, all our troops cost more and are less effective, we don't have special characters (None of them look special to me...) and a few other points.
Look at the "Sample army" on the inside back cover. A 1500 point Dark Angel army.
This army can be bought in the vanilla codex (With minor changes obviously) where all the troops have better rules and the total army cost is ~1200 points.

If you play pure DW or RW (Or a mix of those specifically) then DA have some use. Otherwise a "Combined arms" green DA army is just about the worst list in the game.




Right, Having said that, I don't like Plasma Cannon. They are only good for deep striking terminators. The AC can hit more and still has a chance of rending, the PC basically hits one guy.

[m_r_parker]

I quite like Plasma Cannons, not because they're effective - I just like the idea of them and think they look cool

The Assault Cannon is more effective on paper, and is more likely to kill infantry (multiple shots versus blast - blast damage can be reduced by spreading out models), more likely to kill armour (Rending), and does't cost any more. The only benefit to Plasma is taking out 2+ Save infantry, but there isn't a huge amount out there.

I have two Dreads, one with Twin Linked Lascannon, the other with a Plasma Cannon. The Lascannon is effective, even with it's high points cost, and part of me wouldn't leave home without a Plasma Dread. If anything, I think I'm more likely to experiment with a Multi Melta Dread in Drop Pod first.

[thorwa1]

I leave the boards for 3 months and now there's 100 pages. Stupid weddings.

Anyhow, is anyone planning on playing in the Ard Boyz with their DW? I'm considering it, but I will have to create a new tourney list since 2,500 seems to be the norm for tourney's now.

[Raddman]

That is alot of weddings in 3 months!! Or was it one lonnnng wedding. Or you spent some time tracking down the Husband to be after he ran and hid. Or you have been spending time with all the bridesmaids....thats all I got.

BTW, I will be using my DW in Ard Boys. I am working on optimizing my list now.

[dean]

Anyhow, is anyone planning on playing in the Ard Boyz with their DW? I'm considering it, but I will have to create a new tourney list since 2,250 seems to be the norm for tourney's now.

I'm considering it but it's been moved up.... :-/ I need a few (at least two pair) more metal LCs before the tourny tho....

'Ard boyz is 2500... Just so you know.

Edit: Nope I cant do that weekend...

[thorwa1]

bah, glad you mentioned that the army size. I must of misread the flyer at the store. I edited my post above.

I'm going to have to buy another unit of termies now, but that's what overtime is for.

The list I'm considering:
Belial w/ LC
Terminator Librarian
4 x Shooty terms with AC
1 x Shooty terms with AC and Apothecary
1 x Shooty terms with Hvy Flamer, CF
LRC
Land Raider
LRC

[dean]

Last year I took

Belial, SoS/SB
4 x shooty w/AC
Shooty w/ TMC
Shooty w/ HF
1 x Choppy, 4LC 1TH/SS
LR
LRC
Dread AC/DCCW

Took middle of the pack, would have done better but got "Contested" on the Seize ground mission.

[thorwa1]

Dean, was that under 5th edition? I can't remember when it came out. I've just always wanted to run three Land Raiders of some variant and they are brutal in 5th.