Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Zeroth]

Will using an IA Land Raider let us use the new Power of the Machine Spirit? Or the one in our own Codex?

[Lion El Jason]

IIRC There is a PotMS in IAvol2.
I think it's got the move forward bit and the fire at different target bit but is BS2.

[grave digger]

OMG!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/IA2Update28Aug.pdf

New update,This is version 1.3, Land Raider Prometheus now has "Battle Auspex" and is an elites choice.
Though inexplicably, its transport capacity has been reduced to 10 models...

Battle Auspex: The Prometheus has the Night Vision special rule,
and reduces any enemy cover saves by -1 (i.e. 4+ becomes 5+ etc)
against attacks from the Prometheus.

I seem to recall this was posted a few pages back

I have a few things to say about the "Rumored All Terminator Space Wolf Army". That's right, here comes a graybeards words on the topic

1) These same rumors occured when the vanilla SM codex came out and many got upset. Did not happen (but the bike one did)

2) If this does occur I would guess it would be more likened to a Warboss with Nobz. One squad of Wolfguard become Troops with the purchase of a Wolf Lord. My guess for what it's worth.

3) If the codex really does produce a Wolfwing army list it will be very costly due to the points cost for Wolf Guard (current codex craziness). So it could even be smaller than our army

4) Here is where I spout Heresy! I like Terminators and I like Space Wolves. I would make this army just because it would appeal to me esthetically. I already have an Ork "Deffwing" for the same reason. I almost made a Nurgle "Plaguewing" before the new edition removed it as a real option. Hell, before I made my Deffwing I almost put down the duckets for 4 FW Space Wolf Terminator squads so I could make a proxy Deathwing army.

There ya go, I've said it. I would welcome this army concept because it allows me to get even more Terminators and paint them a different color. I'm also ashamed to say it but since I've been playing Deathwing for so long I fear that I may be the cheeseiest git in existence using the tactics I've learned from here and applying it to a shiny new codex

Diggs

[Mozzamanx]

For what it's worth, the 'Wolfwing' is as good as confirmed, and unlocked by taking Logan Grimnar.

- A basic Wolfguard with TDA, Storm Bolter and Power Sword is 33pts, a whole 10pts cheaper than ours (admittedly without a Fist)
- Counterattack instead of Fearless
- Drop Pods and DP Assault, instead of Teleport and DW Assault
- Much more options regarding wargear, such as Claw n Shield combo
- Improved wargear and Land Raiders

Admittedly we aren't completely outshone, their 'Belial' costs twice as much as ours, and they are likely to get very expensive very quickly when you stack wargear. I imagine it will be 2 sides of the same coin, rather than 1 being superior to the other.

[Zeroth]

Kind of silly in my opinion, because the playstyle can and will be very similar. 10 Terminators, Logan, 2 Land Raiders and Ragnar. If there's points left you take a few cunning scouts.
Doubt it'll work though, the cookie cutter Space Wolf list will probably look a whole lot different, but who knows

A little update from my part, the game I was suppose to play vs Wraithwall got canceled, met a random guy for a battle though. He played Tyranids, but limited it to 1000pts. I'll try to give a brief report later, little busy at the moment

Heavy Flamer ftw! Interrogator still kicking ass, really having doubts about switching him to a Librarian.
Took an Apothecary, didn't use his feat a single time, next time it's Standard Bearer! Kill Point wise it would have been a massacre, but it was objectives and I lost focus on that.

Turning an awesome game into a loss. Not really fussed though, it was a lot of fun. Think he had 43 Models and I had 12, 13 with the Crusader.

[grave digger]

For what it's worth, the 'Wolfwing' is as good as confirmed, and unlocked by taking Logan Grimnar.

- A basic Wolfguard with TDA, Storm Bolter and Power Sword is 33pts, a whole 10pts cheaper than ours (admittedly without a Fist)
- Counterattack instead of Fearless
- Drop Pods and DP Assault, instead of Teleport and DW Assault
- Much more options regarding wargear, such as Claw n Shield combo
- Improved wargear and Land Raiders

Admittedly we aren't completely outshone, their 'Belial' costs twice as much as ours, and they are likely to get very expensive very quickly when you stack wargear. I imagine it will be 2 sides of the same coin, rather than 1 being superior to the other.

Cool,

I'd like to see more about this in the coming weeks/months. I'd not take Ragnar but I would be interested in the other options. I will speak no more of my evil plans with this list due to the fact that this it the Deathwing thread of total awesomeness!

I do like your comment "2 sides of the same coin". I concur at this time. The will play very similar and would be hell fun to fight against each other.

Diggs

[Lion El Jason]

I'd suggest power weapon > power fist anyway.
Losing fearless is a massive advantage for wolves.
Counter attack and better options are amazing for them (And some may prove to be really good, like shield and storm bolter... worth a try I think).
Grimnar comes in at ~200 points but is worth having.


Its another case of vanilla bike lists... there will be literally no use for the DW list after SW are released.

[grave digger]

I'd suggest power weapon > power fist anyway.
Losing fearless is a massive advantage for wolves.
Counter attack and better options are amazing for them (And some may prove to be really good, like shield and storm bolter... worth a try I think).
Grimnar comes in at ~200 points but is worth having.


Its another case of vanilla bike lists... there will be literally no use for the DW list after SW are released.

Turn that frown upside down LEJ

Seriously, the Deathwing will still be a viable list. I'm thinking your style of play (Assaulty) will be the one that takes it in the pants while my normal style of play (shooty) will still be superior. Don't forget, Fearless is still my best friend

Diggs

[Shadow Marine]

I am building a Death wing list but going to use World Eater models (lots of Forge world!). I am toying with the idea of including a ML deathstorm pod. To me they seem only to be useful on the first turn they land, I like the idea of upto 3 blasts on each squad (could earn its 75 points back!) But bit of 1 trick pony.

Anyone used them?

Thanks,

rob

[Lion El Jason]

You think shooty can stand next to cheaper terminators, more heavy weapons (And new CMLs I assume) and 3++ saves without the loss of shooting from that model?

I really can't see where DW retain viability...

[MistaGav]

I suppose we should look at it in two days one good and one bad. One the plus side imagine an apocalypse army with Wolfwing and Deathwing fighting side by side, on the downside imagine them fighting each other.

That would make a really cool multiplayer scenario: Vanilla wing (use slight house rules to allow termies as troops) vs Wolfwing vs Deathwing vs Chaoswing (same as vanillawing)

[grave digger]

You think shooty can stand next to cheaper terminators, more heavy weapons (And new CMLs I assume) and 3++ saves without the loss of shooting from that model?

I really can't see where DW retain viability...

I'm an optimist my friend. I think we can still hold our own and still bring people into our fold. For are we not the 1st chapter? Are we not the Emperors avenging angels? For are we not the Deathwing?

Diggs

[Lion El Jason]

Turns out I'm not fooling anyone. We may have lost the Stubborn rule but DW players are as stubborn as ever!

So we'll be continuing with the DA codex and the pure DW army and you know what? We'll beat the pupwing every time.

Incidentally I don't begrudge the SW this army option, it's just annoying that it's always other armies getting our cool stuff like all bike armies, mortis dreads, robes, Deathwing Assault...etc and now all terminator armies.

Also wolfguard are usually 0-1 unit since they always fight in one group. I'm still hoping for that.

[Lion El Jason]

In other news... I've converted 10 of the Space Hulk terminators to Deathwing.

Poor quality pics here, I'll try make good ones asap.

So far the Assault Cannon has been the difficult one, requiring a standard terminator torso front cut in half... The rest the symbols shave off easily and purity seals or DA parts make it easy to fix 'em up DW style

[grave digger]

I demand better pics NOW!!!

That is too cool LEJ. I've been thinking of getting Space Hulk for the game but if the Termies are a simple conversion job this may become a higher priority.

Diggs

[SabrX]

For what its worth, Deathwing may be more viable in smaller games such as 1750-1000 vs. rumored SW. But that remains to be seen.

[dean]

But lets review a bit... Who is likely to actually have enough Termies around to play "Wolfwing?" and/or be willing to shell out for them. Wolf models have always been a touch more expensive than all the other models.... It's only us nutters (and the lysander wing crazys) who are crazy enough to have more than 1 squad of termies setting around anyway.... It'll take a year or more for some of the wolf guys I know to get around to thinking up army lists for "Wolfwing". They are going to be too busy playing with minis they already have in new ways....

[Red Beard]

But lets review a bit... Who is likely to actually have enough Termies around to play "Wolfwing?" and/or be willing to shell out for them. Wolf models have always been a touch more expensive than all the other models.... It's only us nutters (and the lysander wing crazys) who are crazy enough to have more than 1 squad of termies setting around anyway.... It'll take a year or more for some of the wolf guys I know to get around to thinking up army lists for "Wolfwing". They are going to be too busy playing with minis they already have in new ways....

Im not to sure about this. You can get terminators pretty cheap from wayland games and look at how fast people started getting nob bikers when the ork codex dropped.

[SabrX]

You can always do conversions using AoBR (around $20) and Games Workshop sells metal bits such as 2 Assault Cannons ($6.60), 5 Thunder Hammer + Storm Shields ($13.25), and even 5 pairs of Lightening Claws ($19.65). And if you are looking for CML, they are still selling one in the collectors range ($17, but not sure how long that will last).

It's not too expensive to start a budget Deathwing or future rumored "Wolfwing" Army. Sure the 5X Terminators box set (especially the new SW ones) looks much better then AoBR, but for someone whose on a budget, it's still possible to buy an all Terminator army for a decent price.

[Bob Hunk]

I guess one advantage DW might still have over SW is that if their "Wolfwing" is indeed unlocked in a similar manner to Ork Nobs, i.e. 1 HQ allows 1 Elites choice to be Troops, then they can only field two Troops choices in their "Wolfwing", where as we can still field six.

It's only a little thing, but like Grave Digger, I'm an optimist.