Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Odd_Motorbike_Guy]

I'd punch myself in the face if I pulled that trick with my Deathwing. Good thing I have 2 Whirl Winds and 32 Termies instead

Yeah... I felt like an ********. It was against a Deamonzilla army and I podded a dread onto his objective to contest, tied it up with a huge squad of Bloodletters so the big stuff couldn't charge me. I used 3 Raiders to block his movement to my Objective...

It was one of my most arsey things I've ever done... I still won though

[dean]

Hi guys. I'm thinking of playing Deathwing for the 'ard boyz. Is this a viable army at 2500pts. I'm really thinking that I will be facing a lot of anti tank that can kill termies dead....

[KaldCB]

I feel deathwing only gets better the more points you play, sadly we always play 1500 points games around here.

Deathwing rock in apocolypse games, and when we play i have always the feeling that my deathwing is one of the strongest 3000 point army on the table.

[Lion El Jason]

Right: Teleport Infantry Deathwing. Anyone got any experience with this list?
In 3rd/4th ed I used to use Teleporting more because Sgts could have homers. Since that option is gone now Deep Striking is not as good an option, I've not used Deep Strike at all myself in 5th.
I've been trying to decide how best to play a deep strike list. I've only really seen DWA as a way to get the spare single Deathwng squad down when I cant afford the land raider for them.

I want to hear ideas and experiences based on using a full infantry list and DSing most or all of the squads.

[Raddman]

I played two games last night with the three Vindi-wing set up. Also had two AC/DCCW dreads, 5 Termie squads and Belial.

Played Guard 1st game. Kill points and DoW for the mission. I was planning on DWA to close the gap. Rolled for seize the initiative...and got it! From there took out a command squad in a chimera, which ultimately caused them to run off the board. That was the beginning of the end for him.
I survived two 8 man Ruff rider charges, and proceeded to pulp them badly. By turn 4, I had 7 kill points, while giving up none to him. He conceded at the end of turn 4.

I *almost* felt badly by beating him that soundly. But I owed him one.


Second game was my same list vs. a Lascannon heavy BT army. This was a bit harder. Game was Cap. and Control with DoW again. Termies performed well, winning all the hTh. TLC Belial womped the EC, causing surprise and disbelief amongst everyone.

At the end of turn 6, he had my objective. I was two inches short of capturing his though. It was a narrow loss for me. Good game tho.



I learned that Kill points is a good scenario for the DW. I also learned that if you try to Seize the Init. and do it, you HAVE to go first. And Finally, I learned that DWA can work well, or fail utterly. Last night it was aces for me.

[Coenono]

I was thinking of running DW as a third army. I plan things way in advance but usually don't follow throw with most of it, but the latest plan ive unhached seems like a gooden. My first army is CSM I was thinking of using several box sets and takeing the sm and making them csm to finish the bulk of my csm army. But i don't Think ill use the terminators or dreds... so natural fit would be DW.

Now on to my question. What to you generals think of running a Libi as your second hq. With that spell that saves a wound and a apoth you could effectively stop your first two plasma wounds or wounds in general a turn.

[Odd_Motorbike_Guy]

I like the Librarian! He provides another Flamer Template, one that is statistically better than a Heavy Flamer... I love Heavy Flamers, so imagine how much I like that!

Knowing my luck though...

[Goruax]

I'm also a fan of the DA Librarian! Sure Hellfire is random, but when you get a S8 AP2/3 template on...well anything, it's damn worth it.

Also hi!
I'm just purging the last of the Power Armour from my army as I bought my last box of Terminators (5 Thunder Hammers FTW!) and a Vindicator Line Breaker squadron.

My list is, at 1,500 points:

HQ:
Belial with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield (yes, I know)
Terminator Libby

Troops:
DWT: 1x SB/PW, 1x SB/PF, 3x SB/CF (would normally have a CML, but removed to fit in a 2nd Vindi.)
DWT: 1x SB/CF, 2x SB/PF, 1x, SB/PW, 1x AC/PF
DWT: 5x TH/SS
DWT: 1x SB/PW, 1x AC/CF, 1x TH/SS, 2x TLC

Heavy Support:
Vindicator with Extra Armour
Vindicator with Extra Armour

Total: 1,500 on the dot

I've yet to try it, since I'm still building the TH/SS squad and the Vindicators, but should be getting a game with them on Tuesday night.


I was also wondering; how many people DWA only 1 unit? I might have missed this earlier, but using only 1 unit is very reliable as you can choose your unit to target the enemy's weakest link/the greatest threat and have them neutralise it, or at least force the enemy to counter-act your DWA.

[Lion El Jason]

I don't like hellfire, its easily the worst power in 40k. Random attacks are silly and pointless, its just a "Use it if its available" power, which is a shame because all other marine librarian powers are really useful.
Force Barrier is quite useful though, its like a pseudo-apothecary as you can put AP1 or AP2 hits on the librarian and his save is very good.
Of course, the force weapon and psychic hood are both very good and the librarian is a decent as a character himself.

Oh and TH&SS are quite poor options at the moment, for "Competitive lists" I'd avoid those totally.

[Goruax]

Oh and TH&SS are quite poor options at the moment, for "Competitive lists" I'd avoid those totally.

True, but the urge to shout 'Reagan smash!' before you attack is fun!

[GuyLeDouche]

Oh and TH&SS are quite poor options at the moment, for "Competitive lists" I'd avoid those totally.

I actually just modeled 2 sergeants with the TH/SS combo for experimental purposes. In my assault squads, the serg was always the lucky guy I placed AP1/AP2 hits on anyways. The SS's invulnerable save might actually come in useful in the event that the squad takes heavy fire after finishing off a round of close combat.

If that does not work out to my satisfaction, they'll just go back on my shelf as a couple of sweet looking models. Hey, they might even get dusted off in a couple of months if our next FAQ includes wargear changes and not just the new ATSKNF rules.

[Lion El Jason]

Yeah, I can't put them down totaly. I have ~20 TH&SS terminators, they look cool and got a slight boost in 5th.
Mostly they look cool

If we get 3+ inv saves in an FAQ they will be well worth it.

[Goruax]

Regardless of the 3+ save, the additional boost in combat is pretty handy at saving those power weapon hits.

Would've been nice to have had 3+ invulnerable versus those Fire Dragons though...
A Land Raider is a decent transport for Thunder Hammers, and you don't need Frag Launchers 'cause they're going last anyway - they're pretty good at dislodging enemy units in hard cover.

[GuyLeDouche]

Yeah, I can't put them down totaly. I have ~20 TH&SS terminators, they look cool and got a slight boost in 5th.
Mostly they look cool

If we get 3+ inv saves in an FAQ they will be well worth it.

And works in CC too? I'd almost say they'd be manditory for an assaulty squad. October could be like Christmas for us DA players - only, we have a much higher likelyhood of getting coal in our stockings than shiney new toys.

[Iron Father]

Grats goruax on your Line breaker purchase, I still havent been able to find one for sale


On an apoc. note, while the DW redemption force is nice in allowing your to kill a predetermined enemy hq and then claim it as two objectives, the deathknell(sp?) formation is so much more tempting.

Deathknell drops an apoc. barrage template down with i think 4 hits, then once thats resolved, it drops a homer down for 5+ termie squads and 1+ dreadnought. sweet!

if only I had more than 3k for DW availible....

[Ghostfire]

LEJ-

An all Deepstrike list, you say? I have not played an all
deepstrike list in 5th Ed. But I have a lot in 4th. This is
what my earier posts were asking about. Seeing as how
I've heard it's more dangerous than before to deepstrike.
I wanted to ask for advice.

So I can't help you here but in 4 Ed. deepstriking all 2500
pts on the board was my pefered way to play. It feels
more fluffy to me as well as just appearing over the ridge-
line w/landraiders and dreads on foot.

I agree with KaldCB, the more the merrier! If
you are interested in the layout I'll post it right here...


Belial(shooty) w/Apoth and Standard upgrade

Librarian

2x Hellfire dreads w/EA and Pods.

3x Term squads w/Assault cannons and 1 CF each.

4x Term squads w/ Assault cannons

This army is very shooty but I've had it into a few scraps
too. It's worked well with me but now with the rending
not so easy to do it may lack AT.

Ghostfire

[byteboy]

How are we handling DWA now with 5th Ed DS rules? I don't feel inclined to DWA anymore, especially if you happen to have a misshap/fail saves on a 40+pt model......

Communities thoughts on this?

[Iron Father]

I was under the impression that it was generally not a good idea to DS. I have had much better success either foot slogging them on the board or running a mechanized list.

[KaldCB]

Myself I don't like deep strike, but i do use it in some cases.
As my army is shooty, i want more firepower on the board from turn 1, since terminators can move and fire, you can engage the enemy at range anyway, and your army is together and in support of each other.

As i play with a more of combined force aproach, i use a 1:2 land raider/terminator ratio for my army, i do sometimes deepstrike the squads that don't have a land raider so the entire army get in the face of the army at the same time. but this is against armys that i need to get in close with, and can't win a shoot out.
Like eldar armys with 3-4 pathfinder units.

[Mugatu]

Had a 1500 pts game last night, wanted to try some new things, which is a good thing since my friend did the same.

My list was :
Deathwing Captain with TLC
Dread
Shooty Squad (w/ AC)
Shooty Squad (w/ AC)
Close Combat Squad (3 LC + 1 TH + 1 LC/CML)
Close Combat Squad (2 LC + 1 TH + 1 TH/CML + 1 LC/Banner)
Land Raider

My opponent was :
Khorne marked Chaos Lord (with power glove and plasma gun... standard guy)
Greater Daemon
Dread with TLLC
8 Berzerkers in Rhino (Do I need to say that they had a Power Glove on their champion ?)
10 Chaos space marines (PW+PP, 2 PG, Chaos Banner)
10 Chaos Space marines in Rhino (Power Glove, 2 Meltagun and Chaos Banner)
10 Lesser Daemons
10 Raptor with Lightning Claws and 2 Melta gun

Ok ... So with that much meltagun, my land raider could be in trouble.

Mission was Take and Hold, deployment by Dawn of War (which means 1st turn is played by night). The Chaos scum let me deploy and go first ... which is was good, as I wanted to be able to shoot first by turn 2.

Table went like this :
Top Left quarter : Opponent objective near some small ruins, a big building near the center of the table.
Bottom left quarter (my side) : Big ruins in continuity with the small ruins, and a small building in the center of the quarter.
Top Right Corner : Ruins
Bottom Right Corner : Ruins hidding my objective from my opponent (and providing some cover for my shooty squad, who started in it)
So basically, you'd have a complete line of sight on long side of the table should you reach the middle of it (some kind of "main street" if you want), one or two LoS covering the complete wide side of the table, but without any good angle to shoot something beside what's in front of you.

First turn went as usual :
Captain and DW Standard Squad ported not too near, and on the other side of some ruins, putting a bit of pressure on my opponent's objective, and the plasma squad holding it. That was my first mistake, I think.
Land Raider (with the "Lightning Claw" squad in it) entered the same table quarter as my Captain squad. I bet on my opponent putting his dread on the same fire line during his turn.
My dread entered the middle of the table, in order to support either part of the table should a CC went bad.
Both shooty squads advanced in order to get a good line of sight on the center of the table. The main line of sight will be mine.

My opponent bring his Dread in front of my LR. Shoot with it. Night roll : 10, So 30" worth of shooting. Not good. Distance : 32"... I went "woohoo" and this was going to happen again.
To summarize his turn : He denied a flank. Zerkers went behind the "objective" ruins, and out of their rhino. Plasma squad advanced toward Captain squad.
Melta Squad's Rhino entered the same quarter as the rest of his army, but went behind the big building, leaning toward the center of the table ... and my objective.
Raptor deploy around their rhino.

Turn 2

Shooty squad advance so it can shoot his Raptor. Distance is ... 24". No Loss ... I went "boohoo".
Shooty squad two moved in ruins, run, and now I can say that they hold table main line sight.
Land Raider moved 6, faced his Dread without any cover. One Canon hit. Penetrate. Damage roll is 6. The 3" explosion kills one Raptor. Land Raider Squad make comments about shooty squad's skill.
Dread move and run (forgot to make him run on turn one) to get a good shooting positing -same a shooty squad 2)
Captain's Squad goes back, CML shoot Rhino. Hit. Does not penetrate. I want a Heavy 2 CML !

Daemons are not coming in ... yet.
My opponent decide to try to go for the quick win. His Raptor Squad fly over the big building and advance REALLY close to my Raider. Shoot both Meltagun. Range is ... 6.5 inch. Both hit, but no penetration. My Raider team start calling their girlfriends at home. No destruction, no squad going out. Range it too short for a charge. They now sit in the open.
His melta rhino advance toward my shooty squad. Range is 9". 14 Bolter shoots and 2 Melta. 5 save and 1 invulnerable. 1 death. Countdown begins.
His plasma squad continue to advance in ruins. Zerkers go for "table center" (where his raptors now stand).

Turn 3 - Serious matter beging.

A crappy "dangerous terrain" slow down captain squad and doesn't allow me to avoid the incomming plasma squad. I'm going to eat some serious plasma loving next turn ! They shoot his Raptor squad, kill one guy.
Close Combat Squad goes out of Land Raider. CML shoot Raptors and miss.
Land Raider stand and shoot Raptors. Kill one.
Shooty Squad 2 shoot Raptors. Kill Two.
Dread shoot Raptors. Kill none. Bad Dread!
Shooty squad 1 Advance toward Melta Squad. Shoot. Kill one. Not good. Plus it's another mistake : It's a squad alone, going in for CC. Should have applied the mantra, even if it meant running away.
CC Squad charge and Lightning claws kill by themselves 5 guy ... the whole Squad. Woohoo. But they have the same initiative as the Raptor. Raptor Champion scores 3 hit (out of 3) and 3 invulnerable saves. Plus 2 normal ones. No Death. My opponent eyes go 'pop'.
I consolidate AWAY from zerker. We fail at rules, and he tell me to consolidate 3" as I'm playing termies. We later on catch on that mistake.
Shooty squad kills 5 guys out of his melta squad (leaving 4), suffer 2 deaths (2 guys left).

On his Turn, lesser and greater daemons kick in. Greater Daemon takes possession of Melta Squad champ. Lesser daemons appear so they can charge in that very same fight.
His zerkers charge my CC Squad.
His plasma squad advance and shoot my captain squad. 3 Plasma wound. 1 successful save. Captain lose a Wound. Bolters do nothing.

In CC, his zerker squad regular attack kill one of my LC. My LC guys kill 3. Both his Lord and Champion gloves hit and force a total of 5 invulnerable saves. I miss one. Thunder Hammer hit, and kills 1 more. My friend is really starts saying that he won't be able to make it since termies are way too though. I say "no, Death is coming for me".
His daemons force 7 regulars save, and 4 invulnerable, out of 2 guys. I pass 7 regular, and 4 inv. Saves. We laught about it, until I realize it means that this CC fight will end up in MY turn. So long for the heroic stand ! They manage to apply a wound on the greater daemon.

Turn 4 : I charge his zerkers and lord with Captain squad. To say it fast : His lord survived long enough to finish off my regular CC squad, and got killed by my last thunder hammer attack. Captain lost another would on this fight.
I did something stupid with my Dread. Bringing him closer to his daemons.
In CC, my heroic squad dies. Daemons consolidate close to my dread. My first shooty squad is too far away, and within ruins.

in his turn Greater daemon, without surprise, charge and destroy my dread. He lose a wound doing so. Just two left.
Plasma squad shoot my Captain squad, who consolidated behind cover. 1 Death. It left my captain and a TH with CML.

Turn 5 :

Shooty squad runs back on my objective, and is now behing ruins. Too far from every daemons.
Captain charge with his fellow TH guy. They kill a few, save are running ok. The sarge only got a power sword. Captain is sitting on his objective, contesting it.
Land Raider move in and Shoots his Greater Daemon. Third Wound applied.

On his turn, his GD charge the LR. Does nothing.
Lesser daemons are too far to do something.
His plasma squad runs lucky. 3 man left after captain's attacks. He force me to make an invu save on him, and 2 regular ones on my TH. I miss my invu and a regular one. My squad is gone, is objective is free.

Draw.

I wanted to try a bit of "bad ass assault". And obviously I need more experience. My luck helped me saving the day, but I made PLENTY of mistakes. Good thing that my opponent fear my Land Raider so much.
Ok, a CC squad is a monstruous sight to behold, especially with DW banner. I'll probably try fielding one in 2000 pts. But honestly having some change SO MUCH of the way your opponent is going to play, that correctly using your shooty squad becomes a real pain in your chair resting part.