Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[acommoncold]

Alright, so where I come from we don't have any really aggressive Mech armies for me to go up against.

When I moved to Cali, the first army I played against out flanked me and controlled the field, wiping me from the board. 7kp to my 2kp.

Was wondering what is a good tactic against mechanized armies, especially Eldar.

My current list consists of 27 Terminators, and trust me, deploying everything on the board lead to hardly any shooting from me. Guessing Deathwing Assault would have be prime for this group.

Was wondering what are you tactics/tricks to counter a heavy/aggressive mechanized army?

Anything else to consider?

[Bartali]

Was wondering what is a good tactic against mechanized armies, especially Eldar.

Mech armies do play very differently from each other - for example an IG Chimera spam army will be mostly a static gunline with fearsome firepower. Conversly Eldar firepower isn't anything to write home about, and will use their mobility to target isolated units and contest/capture objectives on turn 5.

Versus Eldar - CMLs, Auto-Cannon/ML Dreads, Lascannon Raiders. If Mech shoot the Fire Dragon Serpent(s) first, if foot look out for Banshees too. After that, try to shoot as many of the other skimmers as possible to deny mobility.

[FarseerUshanti]

Also against Eldar make sure you stay compact, if you spread yourself thin you will have no covering fire, and eldar vehicles can easily surround individual units and pick apart your army one squad at a time

[bobafett012]

Also against Eldar make sure you stay compact, if you spread yourself thin you will have no covering fire, and eldar vehicles can easily surround individual units and pick apart your army one squad at a time

this is really a good general rule for shooty DW and not just against eldar. I always try and keep at least 2 squads close, and maybe a LR with them as well, just so really mobile opponents don't think they can fly around and pick off a unit at a time with no return fire.

[lazy.sarge]

Hey everyone, long time lurker first time poster (in this thread at least). Have finally got to the stage where I can nearly field a DW army, and I nearly because I just don't have the points to be pure DW. I've got a mate who's preparing for a 1750 tourny with an infantry based orc list. I've played him with guard and more recently my first game with DA but thought it would be fun to try DW. What I have so far is:

Belial
Termie Chaplain
DW Squad 1 - AC and CF
DW Squad 2 - AC and CF
DW Squad 3 - two TH/SS, two TLC and one heavy flamer
in Land Raider Crusader with Belial and Termie Chaplain

Dread MM/CCW
Drop pod
Dread AC/ML

Predator
Ravenwing Atk Sqn - 3 bikes

Note that I'm pretty limited to what I can use due to lack of actual models - cyclones for example, I have none...

Comments/suggestions/tactics etc more than welcome

Thanks in advance

[Frogczar]

So I'm getting ready for a tournament at Gen Con in August and I'm considering taking a termie Librarian with a combi-plasma gun. I'm just curious what peoples thoughts are about this configuration in the Deathwing?

Also, can the Librarian move and fire the bolter or the plasma at 24 inches? I've always been curious about this and the codex is unclear.

-Frog

[bobafett012]

So I'm getting ready for a tournament at Gen Con in August and I'm considering taking a termie Librarian with a combi-plasma gun. I'm just curious what peoples thoughts are about this configuration in the Deathwing?

Also, can the Librarian move and fire the bolter or the plasma at 24 inches? I've always been curious about this and the codex is unclear.

-Frog

according to the rules on rapid fire weapons in the BRB, page 28, it says if you stay stationary in the movement phase you can shoot 2 shots at 12", or 1 shot at 24". If you moved at all in the movement phase you can only shoot 2 shots at 12".

another thing to keep in mind with libbys is if you plan on shooting a weapon with him, unless he can cast 2 powers a turn, then he could not use a psychic shooting attack as well.

[Frogczar]

So here are the two lists I'm considering. I play shooty Deathwing. I expect mech lists and psykers because there are 50 bonus points if you bring a psyker.

List 1(1850):

Troops:
DW Squad 1 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, PF/AC x1, Apoth PF/SB
DW Squad 2 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x3, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 3 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, CF/SB x1, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 4 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x3, PF/AC x1

HQ:
Belial - SoS/SB

Elite:
Dreadnought - AC/DCCW
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML

HS:
Landraider - Godhammer pattern, Pintle mounted SB


-----

List 2(1850+50 bonus points):

Troops:
DW Squad 1 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, CF/SB x1, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 2 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, PF/AC x1, Apoth PF/SB
DW Squad 3 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, CF/SB x1, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 4 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x3, PF/AC x1

HQ:
Belial - SoS/SB
Librarian - FW/Terminator Armor, Combi-Plasma

Elite:
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML

HS:
Landraider - Godhammer pattern, Pintle mounted SB, Extra Armor


Which do you think is better as a "all-comers" list?

Comments?

Thanks,
Frog

[bobafett012]

both lists are pretty solid imo, but if i were you I would try to get a 2nd raider in both lists. 1 raider is just an easy target for the oponent to focus on where as tossing in the 2nd one more than doubles their survivability.

as far as the libby goes, since everyone gets an extra 50 points to add one in and most armies that have acess to libbys general take them(at least in my meta), then it would be a good buy for the psychic hood alone, on top of adding some extra wounds to the squad.

[Frogczar]

both lists are pretty solid imo, but if i were you I would try to get a 2nd raider in both lists. 1 raider is just an easy target for the oponent to focus on where as tossing in the 2nd one more than doubles their survivability.

Thanks, but I only own the stuff you see here. The variability will be in the configuration of these units and whether or not to add a Librarian. I don't have a 2nd Land Raider at this time.

The way I play my Raider is more of a Lascannon bunker than a transport. The transport part is secondary in its mission. I figure with the fire-support dreads, there are several targets for enemy AT to go for. I'm more worried about losing the dreads than the Raider.

-Frog

[bobafett012]

The way I play my Raider is more of a Lascannon bunker than a transport. The transport part is secondary in its mission. I figure with the fire-support dreads, there are several targets for enemy AT to go for. I'm more worried about losing the dreads than the Raider.

-Frog

Thats how i run both of my LR's. I run an all shooty DW army at 2k with 5 squads of terms outfitted identically to your list. I quit running dreads for the most part with the release of 5th edition because LR's got really good, and dreads get poped pretty easily. However, if you can't run more LR's because you don't have em then you should definitly run 3 dreads , imo, and run them as long range anti tank so that way you don't have to waste AC's trying to pop rhinos/razors/etc. That way your terms can then condentrate their fire power on the unit that came out of the transport that your dread poped.

Now that I have a bit more info, I would likely run the 2nd list as 2 anti-tank dreads plus the godhammer should be plenty of long range anti-tank, and then you still get the psychic defense from your libby. A few things though, there is no reason to run extra armor on DA LR's, PotMS already does that, also, get rid of the pintle mounted storm bolter, another waste on a vehical that should usually be firing on tanks, and will likely be out of range for the SB anways if you sit him back in cover. lastly, ditch the combi-plasma on the libby. Now if only you could come up with 10 extra points you could make both dreads venerable, which would not only make them alot tougher to kill but also be alot more fluffy considering DW dreads *should* be venerable.

[Frogczar]

Now that I have a bit more info, I would likely run the 2nd list as 2 anti-tank dreads plus the godhammer should be plenty of long range anti-tank, and then you still get the psychic defense from your libby. A few things though, there is no reason to run extra armor on DA LR's, PotMS already does that, also, get rid of the pintle mounted storm bolter, another waste on a vehical that should usually be firing on tanks, and will likely be out of range for the SB anways if you sit him back in cover. lastly, ditch the combi-plasma on the libby. Now if only you could come up with 10 extra points you could make both dreads venerable, which would not only make them alot tougher to kill but also be alot more fluffy considering DW dreads *should* be venerable.

Makes sense, actually there are some points left over as the list stands now, I could ditch the extra armor and the combi-plasma and probably have enough points for the venerable upgrades.

Here's the modified list which comes in at exactly 1900 points:

-----

List 2(1850+50 bonus points):

Troops:
DW Squad 1 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, CF/SB x1, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 2 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, PF/AC x1, Apoth PF/SB
DW Squad 3 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x2, CF/SB x1, PF/AC x1
DW Squad 4 - SGT w PS, PF/SB x3, PF/AC x1

HQ:
Belial - SoS/SB
Librarian - FW/Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter

Elite:
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML, Venerable
Dreadnought - TLLC/ML, Venerable

HS:
Landraider - Godhammer pattern, Pintle mounted SB



Any reason in particular you don't like the combi-plasma on the libby? I've read suggestions farther back in the tactica that suggest it's a good upgrade. From what I can tell though, I think the Storm Bolter is probably just as good considering if the libby is close enough for the rapid fire on the plasma, he's probably using hellfire anyway.

Thanks for these suggestions.

-Frog

[Bartali]

Combi-Melta every time on the Libby for me, as we can't really take melta anywhere else (bar LRC's).

[bobafett012]

Any reason in particular you don't like the combi-plasma on the libby? I've read suggestions farther back in the tactica that suggest it's a good upgrade. From what I can tell though, I think the Storm Bolter is probably just as good considering if the libby is close enough for the rapid fire on the plasma, he's probably using hellfire anyway.

Thanks for these suggestions.

-Frog

yeah I personally think the list looks good. As far as combi-weapons, I have nothing against them at all, they are a descent buy, and as bartali said, a combi-melta would be a good investment, I just didn't add up your list and figured you were at 1850/1900 because you had tossed in stuff like EA, pintle SB etc. So if you got the extra points I would certainly add in the combi-melta on the libby, but I wouldn't lose a venerable upgrade for it. Also just remember, you can't use combi-melta and hellfire in the same turn. I know its not a big deal at all for DA since our psychic powers are so atrocious, and only have 1 shooting attack(unless you take ezekiel) but for BA libbys, I would rather be shooting other things(namely blood lance ) than a combi-weapon, but thats another thread.

[starlight]

So... I finally have my entire Deathwing intact and in the same room (longtime readers may remember the shipping fiasco in completing this long-awaited army, which has finally been resolved...).

What I now have amounts to (by Deathwing build standards):

HQ (and extra models)
Belial (Lysander model doing the *counts as* thing)

Librarian
Chaplain
Apothecary

Captain (or Sgt) w TH/SS, SB x4, Cyclone


Elites
Sgt, SB x3, Cyclone
Sgt, TH/SS x3, HF
Sgt, TLC x2, TH/SS, HF

Troops
Sgt, SB x3, ACan
Sgt, SB x3, ACan
Sgt, SB x3, ACan
Sgt, SB x3, ACan
Sgt, SB x3, ACan
Sgt, SB x3, ACan

HS
LR x2
LRR


That's the basic jist of it, plus I have about half dozen pairs of additional arms (the plan is to magnetise everything...eventually), and enough Dreads to do pretty much anything I want on that side. Now for a little repair and whatnot before they're ready for re-painting and hopefully they'll see the tabletop before too long... I'm looking forward to seeing how they do against Melchiah's Eldar this summer...then who knows...

Next purchases will be LRC x3...

I'm hoping to see some Apoc games with the whole force, but in the meantime I'll be experimenting with various lists, starting with *horde* Deathwing and as many models as I can squeeze in, then working from there...

[fall3nang3l]

I don't know if anyone remembers me but I was interested in Deathwing a couple of months ago. Now, over the summer I've rekindled my interest in them. and I'm pleased to say that I'm ordering my very own Deathwing army this weekend. Only problem is that I can't decide whether I like shooty or assaulty so I don't know which type of terminators to order. I like both too much although I have decided that I want to run mechanized, with at least 2 land raider crusaders. Apart from that, I like shooty and assaulty terminators too much to make a decision...

[starlight]

At some point you're going to have to decide...


However, the simplest option is to magnetise the arms so you can swap back and forth, and Bitz order spare arms to increase your options...

[fall3nang3l]

I think I'm gonna start with a mix of shooting and assaulting. Decide from there which I like more and expand.

1500:
Belial
Lightning Claws
-(btw how much of a hassle is smoothing off all of the chaos symbols off the chaos terminator lord lightning claws? They look like good modeling candidates but I've never seen them in person)

Interrogator chaplain
combimelta, terminator armor

DW Terminators- 225
4 TH/SS
1 CF/HF
-(I'm sure this isnt the best option but I love the models too much to take LC's. Ill just cross my fingers till we get an update XD)

DW Terminators- 250
1 PW/SB
3 PF/SB
1 CF/AC

DW Terminators- 245
1 PW/SB
3 PF/SB
1 PF/AC

Land Raider Crusader
Land Raider Crusader

thats 1500 and I'd figure I'd start there.

2000 points is 2 more shooty squads, or 1 shooty and 1 with LC and an apothcary (who would join the TH/SS squad).

Any suggestions on tactics?

[bobafett012]

a mix of shooty and CC DW is not a good mix, you cut yourself too short in both categories. Most DW players will advise going all shooty or all CC if you want to have much success with them. Further more, DW SS's aren't very good, obviously not anywhere close to vanilla, BA, and SW SS. Your lone squad is going to run up wipe out something then get murdered, mean while your other 2 squads will slowly be marching up the field being whittled down since they aren't going to be supporting your CC squad.

Do yourself a favor and go one way or the other, I vote shooty, as DA are known as a more shooty force, and the shooty DW is going to be more effective vs a wider variety of opponents in comparison to the CC DW army.

[Russell's teapot]

At 1500, I've got to agree with bobafett. However, I'd take Starlight's suggestion of magnetising seriously.

If you are looking to go to 2000 at some point anyway, I'd recommend getting a 1500 shooting force, along the lines you've already got planned (well I would wouldn't I ). Get them painted up. Proxy/ borrow models if you want to go assaulty. Once your army's painted up, it's a simple 'operation' to take the arms off & magentise everything - just remember to use superglue rather than plastic glue if you are considering that route...

Re: the chaos lord - the torsos are a pain, I think I used a spare imperial terminator torso front & legs with the CSM lord LCs, backpack & cloak. The cloak looks bad-ass! If you fill in the tetters on the cloak with GS, it looks much more 'imperial'.

Hope that helps.