Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Royals]

So, hopefully by next week, I'll have enough models assembled to play a small game. I should be able to field 750 pts. Here's what I'm planning

Belial
Sword of Secrets, Storm Bolter

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Venerable, Drop Pod

It should be a fun little game. I think that 750pts is the smallest game you can actually field a Deatwing Army. I think eventually I'll convert a Librarian for my army. Has anyone use one with success?

[Perth]

So, hopefully by next week, I'll have enough models assembled to play a small game. I should be able to field 750 pts. Here's what I'm planning

Belial
Sword of Secrets, Storm Bolter

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Venerable, Drop Pod

It should be a fun little game. I think that 750pts is the smallest game you can actually field a Deatwing Army. I think eventually I'll convert a Librarian for my army. Has anyone use one with success?

Someone with more experience correct me if I'm wrong, but dropping an AC dread alone, even at 750, might not be the best idea. I think your math is a bit off anyway, so you can't afford the pod. Also most people seem to favor the LC Belial, but in such a low points game I'm not sure if the extra bolter fire would outway the lost CC threat. What I'd try is something like this maybe, granted I have no idea what weapons you have.

Belial-130 (130)

Term squad #1: CF-220 (350)

Term squad #2: CF, AC-250 (600)

Dreadnought: Ven, AC, HF-150 (750)

Note that the Dread in the list can be swapped out with a Combi-Melta Libby if you decide to use one as they both cost 150 points. From what I've read (no actual experience) Libby works well with footsloggers, but is outshone by the Chap once you mount them up in raiders.

[Lion El Jason]

My Land Raider Achilles arrived, its a really nice kit, I'll have a lot of fun with it once exam time is over.

I and thinking of trying to fix the FW extra armour to it but as it comes with those front pieces I'm not sure... I'll see how it looks.
I will be having plenty of Dark Angels symbols, regalia and the like all over it too but so far all I'll say is I really like the kit.

On a similar note, in the FW Imperial Armour 10 book I'm pretty sure there's a picture of a Land Raider with the quad heavy bolter sponsons and assault cannon in the hull mount.
I really hope this is a future release!

Diggs: Yeah I saw those Lightning claws, they look pretty good, since its the most used combo at the moment I expect they will get used for quite a few Belials.

[aekold666]

Regarding the use of lightning claws on belial: Recently I have started using the TH/SS combo on belial and I must say that it really pleases me. You lose an attack and the I5, but in my eyes you gain so much. Belial becomes more survivable due to his 4++. The reroll to wound is negated, since you almost always wound on a 2+. But the biggest advantage is that you can damage vehicles. Maybe it is just the metagame around me, but there hasn't been a single moment that I regretted nog having brought the lightning claws.

[Mugatu]

So, hopefully by next week, I'll have enough models assembled to play a small game. I should be able to field 750 pts. Here's what I'm planning

Belial
Sword of Secrets, Storm Bolter

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Deathwing Terminator Squad
Chainfist

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon, DCCW, Heavy Flamer, Venerable, Drop Pod

It should be a fun little game. I think that 750pts is the smallest game you can actually field a Deatwing Army. I think eventually I'll convert a Librarian for my army. Has anyone use one with success?

If I remember correctly, you already feld a DW army, or at least discussed it here, but I'm not sure, so forgive me if I state something you already know.

You should be able to surprise your opponent with a DW army, but to pull out a win, you need the sacred "army consistency" we talk about on a regular basis here.

I don't know if your running CC squad or shooty squad.
If you're running a CC army, you shouldn't drop pod your Dread. By placing it behind your terminator, you'll be able to advance at their speed while benefiting from a cover, as termies are big enough.
Now, I LOVE dreads, but I would really recommend trying a Libby+Apothicary. It's fluffy, and it will save you some wounds on the way to CC.
If you're running a Shooty Deathwing, you'll need to buy yourself some Assault Cannons. One for each squad. With Belial, it's a total of 620 pts. You can add a mint dread, and 5 pts of either : HF on the dread or CF in one squad. And again, make the dread run behind terminator cover.

But all in all, I'd say : Don't drop the dread. There is NO benefit I can see. Not compared to the chance of having it with you during the first few turns.

Good luck Brother !

[Russell's teapot]

Can't understand the TH/SS Belail. We only have 2 ways of getting I5 into the army (the 2 ICs), bith of which can wipe out 4 opponents (on the charge) before they get to hit you back.

The TH/SS is simply 'more of the same' which any 43 point model in our army can have (and generally does have as standard), so why waste one of the only I5s we have. The jump from 5++ to 4++ really only becomes relevant after they've attacked, with TLC or SoS Belail's done his job (and generally failed ) so if he dies, I don't really care that much (the very fact he's taking those armour ignoring hits means that my squad isn't, so he's doing another useful job). Also, without eternal warrior opponents tend to chuck a powerfist at Belail anyway and a 4++ isn't a great deal better than a 5++, were it a 3++ I'd consider it, but probably still not take it...

As to 750 points lists, they are tricky as you'll always have points left over because of Belail. I don't think you'll need chainfists at that points level so I'd go:

Belail - TLC or SoS - 130pts

Shooty squad - AC - 245pts
Shooty squad - AC - 245pts

Dreadnaught - AC,DCCW, HF - 130pts

Cheap & cheerful.

[Russell's teapot]

WE HAVE A RULES UPDATE!!!!

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Not read it all yet, but feel the cheese!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...ersion_1_1.pdf

EDIT:

RUN DOWN OF CHANGES:

Narcathium - as per Codes Space Marines - woo hoo!

Cyclone missile launchers - as per Codes Space Marines - woo hoo! NO POINTS INCREASE!!!!!!!!!

PoTMS - as per Codes Space Marines - woo hoo!

Smoke launchers - as per Codes Space Marines - boo!

Storm Shields - as per Codes Space Marines - woo hoo!

[aekold666]

OWH YEAH BABY.

This is so great. Only downside in my eyes is that the apothecary no longer ignores plasma wounds, but no we have stormshields to compensate for that.

[Russell's teapot]

OWH YEAH BABY.

This is so great. Only downside in my eyes is that the apothecary no longer ignores plasma wounds, but no we have stormshields to compensate for that.

Oh yeah:

2+
3++
FNP
With cheap cyclone missile launcher

Eat my unit!

EDIT:

This may change our tactics so radically that we need a new tactica...

[Dark Aly]

so how do these changes affect everyones tactics?

might have to make some more cyclone termies to crack transports at range and maybe a TH/SS termy in each squad to take wounds from plasma even though I play with a 'shooty' deathwing. much better all we need now is ven. dreads the same as C:SM and it's spot on

[Mugatu]

I just wet my pants !

THANK YOU GW ! I was afraid they'd left us without any codex update for the next 3 years ...

The best part, from a pure Deathwing point of view, is that the Apoth, CML and PotMS rules will open some new possibilities for us.

Side note : I love the "if you have a Land Speeder in your RW squadron, the squadron cannot flank." ... the LS is a separate unit but still block is "mother unit" !
I guess it is some kind of abuse prevention, and there is so much nice thing in that FAQ, that it really doesn't matter.

Again, Thank you GW !

[aekold666]

@Russell: See, this strengthens my case in for using an TH/SS belial :P

I think this changes our atmy in a way that we are able to put out more firepower due to the new machine spirit and missile launcher. Meaning that it will be more difficult to stop our raiders and making it easier for us to pop transports.

I think that we will see more squads with both banner and apothecary due to the fact that FNP is usable in combat, unlike out old apothecary.

A decline in the use of lightning claws in squads. I used the claws in my squad to make every member of the squad unique. I think I will keep doing this but use a TH/SS model instead due to the increased survivability.

We will start to see full TH/SS squads with banner, apothecary, belial and chaplain charging out of landraiders.

More extra armour on landraiders. Our old machine spirit meant that we could still move even when suffering a stunned result. The new spirit doesn't allow this so in order to keep moving I think extra armour should be considered.

Just some things from the top of my head.

[Hypaspist]

I'm looking at all my terms decked out with Cyclone Missile Launchers (because I thought they looked cool) and am now grinning from ear to ear..

[Royals]

Can't understand the TH/SS Belail. We only have 2 ways of getting I5 into the army (the 2 ICs), bith of which can wipe out 4 opponents (on the charge) before they get to hit you back.

The TH/SS is simply 'more of the same' which any 43 point model in our army can have (and generally does have as standard), so why waste one of the only I5s we have. The jump from 5++ to 4++ really only becomes relevant after they've attacked, with TLC or SoS Belail's done his job (and generally failed ) so if he dies, I don't really care that much (the very fact he's taking those armour ignoring hits means that my squad isn't, so he's doing another useful job). Also, without eternal warrior opponents tend to chuck a powerfist at Belail anyway and a 4++ isn't a great deal better than a 5++, were it a 3++ I'd consider it, but probably still not take it...

As to 750 points lists, they are tricky as you'll always have points left over because of Belail. I don't think you'll need chainfists at that points level so I'd go:

Belail - TLC or SoS - 130pts

Shooty squad - AC - 245pts
Shooty squad - AC - 245pts

Dreadnaught - AC,DCCW, HF - 130pts

Cheap & cheerful.

Thanks sounds like an overall better list. I think I'll keep Belial with SoS as it just seems like a waste to let his BS5 go unused.

[Bob Hunk]

WE HAVE A RULES UPDATE!!!!

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Not read it all yet, but feel the cheese!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...ersion_1_1.pdf

Heh, was just coming to report this news. This is amazing! I don't know about you guys, but I'm most excited about the Apothecary.

[Russell's teapot]

@Russell: See, this strengthens my case in for using an TH/SS belial :P

He can see into the future! Burn the witch! Cleanse the heretic!

Man, writing a list is hard with these rules!

Belail - TLC - 130points

DW squad - TLC, TLC apothecary, TH&SS x 2, TH&SS cyclone - 265points

DW squad - CF, cyclone - 240points

DW squad - CF, cyclone - 240points

LRC - EA - 265points

LRC - EA - 265points

Total - 1405points

Big difference is the need for EA on the LRCs now... If you drop the EA (which I think is a bad idea), drop a cyclone down to a HF & drop one CF you can cram in another character...

Or do we need to re-re-define DW & go back to the old days where veterans in PA count????? Or Inner circle mambers in PA?

I feel dirty saying that...

FWIW - I had to refer to the codex for the first time in a long time to check what the points cost for a cyclone was

[Mugatu]

Uh uh uh ... I can see that we're all VERY excited about these changes. I'm having my 1000 pts games in two weeks (the one I was suppose to have a month ago), and will try this set up:

Captain Belial (With Lightning Claw)
Dreadnaught with AC and HF
DW Squad with CML, Chain Fist and Apothicary.
DW Squad with CML
DW Squad with CML

1000 pts on a dime.

Strat is : Keep Belial and the Apothicary squad behind another squad, to act as a mid game counter assault / CC death unit.
Apply Shooty Deathwing Mantra as long as possible.

[Russell's teapot]

Strat is : Keep Belial and the Apothicary squad behind another squad, to act as a mid game counter assault / CC death unit.
Apply Shooty Deathwing Mantra as long as possible.

Surely you're better off with them at the front, as with FNP they have a built in cover save... And everything behind them will have a cover save too...

EDIT:

This is a nice 2000 points list with the new rules.

[Royals]

Can you shoot the CML in addition to your Storm Bolter or does it follow the standard shooting rules. Also, would you say that the CML is better than the AssCan? I'm wondering if it's worth it to include a little of each.

[Mugatu]

Thought about it, but actually, you lose the benefit from FNP to AP2 and S8 weapon. The new apothicary works more like an "Anti Saturation" tool, to me.
So I should say : For the first two rounds, have them behind a "cover squad" and then have them in the front, as you recommended.

You're right about this list. It makes me start thinking that, as per Brother Aekold, we might sacrifice a SB to add a TH/SS to each unit, just to ignore one low AP wound each turn.
Would be nice if this FAQ update actually bring back squad mixing

Brother Royals : Yes you can. You must shoot at the same target though. It's standard CML rules.