Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[TheDoctor]

@Finn

I came on this thread with something relevant, and then that went out the window when I see a kitty... Time to go pet my kitty.

[Finn]

I could not get him off the table long enough to take a picture that wasn't blurry, eventually gave up.

As for relevance, don't Land Raiders have more "trouble" firing both sponsons at one target than Predators do? But I guess with a LRC you don't really care...

[ErictheGreen]

What are those and what do they do?!

they are dreadnoughts available through forgeworld. Rules are in Imperial Armour 2.

Reasons to get them:
a.) they look awesome: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuf...UGHT-BODY.html
b.) it's an AV13 dreadnought with WS5 or BS5 depending on the pattern you choose
c.) it can take a cyclone missile launcher in addition to its weapons, making it an adequate fire support platform, even as a regular (i.e. non mortis) dread
d.) they are meant to be an ancient dreadnought, the first incarnation of sticking dieing marines in death machines, and as dark angels have them some ancient technology, there's bound to be one in the deathwing.
e.) they look awesome.
f.) one of its weapons is a 6 shot assault cannon. you can take this on a mortis platform for a 12 shot S6 rending monster also spitting out 2 missiles a turn. at bs5.
g.) they look awesome. better in person than on the forgeworld pictures.

[Captain Collius]

i feel like an a slobbering dog who needs to order one and i just got my paycheck........ must resist have other bills to pay.

that said if someon lets you use him he will dominate fire support


edit: has anyone tried at a mortis contmetor with autocannons?

[ErictheGreen]

I proxied one with autocannons, one with kheres cannons. dual kheres outperforms dual autocannon at every AV. the extra 2 shots make the difference from the already excellent assault cannon. the cyclone is icing on the cake and the kheres can pull double duty with infantry heavy. I think it's also only 10 points more expensive.


and to back it up, mathhammer time:
Autocannons:
4 shots @BS5, twinlinked
= 3.98 hits
vs AV10 - 0.66 glances, 1.99 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 1.105
chance of wreck or boom: 0.66
vs. AV11 - 0.66 glances, 1.32 pen
chance of immobilse or better: 0.77
chance of wreck or boom: 0.44
vs. AV12 - 0.66 glances, 0.66 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 0.44
chance of wreck or boom: 0.22
vs. AV13 - 0.66 glances
chance of immobilise or better: 0.11
chance of wreck or boom: 0
vs. AV14 - 0 glances
chance of immobilise or better: 0
chance of wreck or boom: 0


Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons
12 shots @BS5, not twinlinked
= 10 hits
vs AV10 - 1.66 glances, 3.33 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 1.945
chance of wreck or boom: 1.11
vs AV11 - 1.66 glances, 1.66 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 1.11
chance of wreck or boom: 0.55
vs AV12 - 0 glances, 1.66 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 0.83
chance of wreck or boom: 0.55
vs AV13 - 0.55 glance, 1.11 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 0.647
chance of wreck or boom: 0.37
vs AV14 - 0.55 glance, 0.55 pen
chance of immobilise or better: 0.367
chance of wreck or boom: 0.18


@captain - whatdya mean *if* someone lets you use him? it's got the 40k stamp on it! it's legal! (yes, i know this is hotly disputed. I myself am forgeworld friendly because almost all of their stuff is overcosted pointswise. except maybe the mortis contemptor for dark angels. and only then because it fills that huge whole in a purist deathwing army for transport and horde busting fire support.)

If anyone moans, just remind them you could be putting another scoring deathwing unit on the table for the same price

[FraustyTheSnowman]

Wait...imperial armor 2? I'm thinking they're not in that one. Did you mean the second imperial armor apoc book?

These things come out to like 40something in us currency right without weapons? hmm...They are becoming very very tempting.

[Captain Collius]

i just refer to the fact that some people complain about forgeworld so it is easier to ask.

That said it is not an issue at our store plus i really wanna field one with a conversion beamer just to see their face when i blow up a land raider (we are a seriously marine heavy store)

[Royals]

I really like my Dreadnoughts. I currently have three armed with AssCanns, DCCWs, and Heavy Flamers. I prefer to have everything Deep Strike in as opposed to hoofing it across the table as it much more dramatics to have the Drop Pods hit the table and pop open revealing the Dreadnought. How do people generally find the Twin-Linked Lascannon and Missile Launcher Dreadnoughts. Also, do you think they'd work well dropping in on the flanks so they can get side shots on enemy armor. I think before I make any more purchases I'm going to paint my existing force which at this time is only around 30 models.

I have a few rules questions as well.

Can my Dreadnought fire the turn in arrives via Drop Pod?

How many attacks does a Dreadnought with a DCCW get? I see it has 2 on its profile. Does that include the DCCW and do I lose an attack if I replace the DCCW?

[ErictheGreen]

@frausty - yeah, the apocolypse 2 book. about the same price without weapons as a dread and half again for the weapons (plus a little bit extra for the cyclone.

@captain - LOVE the conversion beamer bit. don't like having to stand still.

@Royals - yes your dreadnought can fire coming out of a drop pod. walkers are relentless and can fire all of their weapons when the move, or get out of a pod, as long as they fire them all at the same target.
dreadnought with DCCW gets 2 attacks, as it says on the profile. If it loses the DCCW, it still has 2 attacks, but only at s6 and doesn't ignore armour saves or get an extra d6 at vehicles.

twin-las and missile launcher is ok. i'm not a fan. i like plasma/dccw or mortis pattern autocannon (which is the one in imperial armour 2, i believe). Your opponents should have NO problem with you using a mortis. We invented it, every other bloomin marine chapter gets one, so it shouldn't be an issue.

drop pods are a touch too expensive for my tastes.

[Royals]

Thanks for the info!

I think after I finishing painting and assembling what I have now. I'm going to by come Assault Terminators and a box of Grey Knight Terminators to make my Librarian and Apothecary and maybe a new Belial. After that I'm going to buy two Dreadknights to put me at the Apocalypse level. After this, perhaps a I'll build a couple of Mortis Pattern Dreadnoughts. Once I feel extremely comfortable with my modeling and painting skills, I might opt for a Contemptor Dreanought.

[ErictheGreen]

coontemptor is meant to be very easy to go together, except for the assault cannon, which comes in separate parts.

with regards to mortis pattern, you either use forgeworld's arms (pricy), or you could use puppetswar arms (look a bit warjacky, but still could), or you could convert them from the aegis defence set.

the terminators librarian model is gorgeous btw. i prefer the terminator chaplain. A model which is also beautiful. if you just want the GK box for your apothecary, you might be able to get the bit online. though that box also has the banner in it. I am tempted to redo my command squad with grey knight termis, FW deathwing shoulderpads and the spare THSS I have lying around...

[Captain Collius]

I really like my Dreadnoughts. I currently have three armed with AssCanns, DCCWs, and Heavy Flamers. I prefer to have everything Deep Strike in as opposed to hoofing it across the table as it much more dramatics to have the Drop Pods hit the table and pop open revealing the Dreadnought. How do people generally find the Twin-Linked Lascannon and Missile Launcher Dreadnoughts. Also, do you think they'd work well dropping in on the flanks so they can get side shots on enemy armor. I think before I make any more purchases I'm going to paint my existing force which at this time is only around 30 models.

I have a few rules questions as well.

Can my Dreadnought fire the turn in arrives via Drop Pod?

How many attacks does a Dreadnought with a DCCW get? I see it has 2 on its profile. Does that include the DCCW and do I lose an attack if I replace the DCCW?

1. stat line is as is the only thing that changes is you go from strength 10 to stg 6
2. yes it can fire

i don't know about flank dropping the dreads (never tried it) but i love my las/ml dreads

[Kelanen]

They are NOT in Imperial Armour 2!
They are NOT in Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2!

They ARE in Imperial Armour Apocalypse (second edition).

These are three completely different books people!

[Captain Collius]

thank you kelanen imma go get that today

[samiens]

I came on here especially to say what Kelanen did *grumble*

I will say on the Grey Knight termie box- the banner is fully sculpted so not that much use. There have been excellent versions using the empire battle standard (the piece that looks like a grim reaper) or you could be fancy and freehand it (not something I would like to try- although I am looking to get a painting blog up[ for my revitalised Deathwing this weekend)

[Kelanen]

thank you kelanen imma go get that today

IA2 is very old and not much use to anyone other than curiosity value.

IAA (2nd) and IAA2 are both very recent books (last year) and very worthwhile. Ideally you want both!

[Finn]

they are dreadnoughts available through forgeworld. Rules are in Imperial Armour 2.

Reasons to get them:
a.) they look awesome: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuf...UGHT-BODY.html
b.) it's an AV13 dreadnought with WS5 or BS5 depending on the pattern you choose
c.) it can take a cyclone missile launcher in addition to its weapons, making it an adequate fire support platform, even as a regular (i.e. non mortis) dread
d.) they are meant to be an ancient dreadnought, the first incarnation of sticking dieing marines in death machines, and as dark angels have them some ancient technology, there's bound to be one in the deathwing.
e.) they look awesome.
f.) one of its weapons is a 6 shot assault cannon. you can take this on a mortis platform for a 12 shot S6 rending monster also spitting out 2 missiles a turn. at bs5.
g.) they look awesome. better in person than on the forgeworld pictures.

I must be the only person on the planet who thinks they look kinda retarded. Like something an Ork would make, but without the cool Ork factor. :-/

Also, I second Kelanen's recommendation on picking up both IAA 1 and 2.

[Kelanen]

I must be the only person on the planet who thinks they look kinda retarded. Like something an Ork would make, but without the cool Ork factor. :-/

I think they look better than a standard Dread, but then I hate imperial Dreads...

Mortis with 2x Kheres AC is the way to go. CML is optional, but an autoinclude in any game allowing flyers since it benefits from the Helical Targeting Array.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

This targeting array dohickey is something specific to the contemptor then? In the above configuration, his CML and Kheres AC are antiair?

[Droma]

For the contemptor(relic version) with cyclone missile launcher and two keres pattern assault cannons plus the book the rules come in you're looking at spending ~$127 us plus taxes and shipping. Probably still worth it as the model is freaking awesome and the rules are good for it.