Tactica: Deathwing 5th Edition

[Kabbala]

Dream Wizards, really? I get in there occasionally when i have the chance!

[ravenwing1234]

I guess until the new codex comes out, is everyone just running hammer + cyclone footslog with typhoon or melta bike support?

[Finn]

Minus melta bike, plus predators.

[FraustyTheSnowman]

Straight terminators here, though I've yet to actually play a game with them yet...

[TheDoctor]

I guess until the new codex comes out, is everyone just running hammer + cyclone footslog with typhoon or melta bike support?

I still run primarily shooty terminators, with one hammer per squad, and a command squad of hammers, with melta bikes and/or typhoons for support. I've tried out autolas preds a couple of times, but to be honest, I don't like how they break the theme. Plus, I could be fielding more terminators.

Edit: Although in the past 2 months, I've been primarily refocusing on my eldar, now that IA 11 has come out. Warp hunters *giggle*

[Bartali]

I guess until the new codex comes out, is everyone just running hammer + cyclone footslog with typhoon or melta bike support?

You're go to units are:-
TH/SS Terminators with Cyclones
Speeders - Either Typhoon or MM/HF
AC/HB Preds

Add in a sprinkling (to taste) of:-
Ravenwing Bikes with Melta
5 Man Tacticals (with Melta) in Razorbacks
Vet Squads with Melta in Rhinos

[ErictheGreen]

As an aside, deathwing assault is almost never worth it. My insistence on using it cos me a tournament victory this weekend.

[blurrymadness]

As an aside, deathwing assault is almost never worth it. My insistence on using it cos me a tournament victory this weekend.

While I agree; I have to imagine it's not the only thing that cost you the game. I have doubts it was *guaranteed* before you chose to use DWA. IMO, it's most worth it if you field 5 squads and are playing Dawn of War:
-2 Squads on table
-3 in reserve
--2 deepstrike in where you need em
--1 walks on to nab your objective, or deepstrikes if you're playing annihilation (maybe)

This way 80% of your force is positioned where you want 'em, they shoot to full effect when you land anyway.


As a side note, I'd say mix TH/SS with SB/PFists. SBs are still good sources of infantry harass and sometimes TH/SS just won't do *that* good in combat. In a tournament meta they probably will; but if you see orks, nids, blob squads, or other at-initiative loads of attacks fearless/stubborn infantry with loadsa-bodies; you'll wish you were backpeddling launching rounds in. 5 Stormshields is overkill.

[ErictheGreen]

While I agree; I have to imagine it's not the only thing that cost you the game. I have doubts it was *guaranteed* before you chose to use DWA. IMO, it's most worth it if you field 5 squads and are playing Dawn of War:
-2 Squads on table
-3 in reserve
--2 deepstrike in where you need em
--1 walks on to nab your objective, or deepstrikes if you're playing annihilation (maybe)

This way 80% of your force is positioned where you want 'em, they shoot to full effect when you land anyway.


As a side note, I'd say mix TH/SS with SB/PFists. SBs are still good sources of infantry harass and sometimes TH/SS just won't do *that* good in combat. In a tournament meta they probably will; but if you see orks, nids, blob squads, or other at-initiative loads of attacks fearless/stubborn infantry with loadsa-bodies; you'll wish you were backpeddling launching rounds in. 5 Stormshields is overkill.

choosing to DWA left 2 squads off the table and my shooting elements (which at 2300 poins were many) couldn't hold off the sustained drop pod assault while i took backfield objectives (5 objective game). Had I bubblewrapped the shooting and countercharged, i could have blown through what was there and walked onto the middle objective for the win. I could have still pulled the win out of the bag but 1 piece of late game targetting priority due to hungoverness and tiredness killed it off. Such things make a huge difference on top tables.

With the current prevalence of units equipped with power weapons and our reliance on DW squads being workhorse units, THSS is the only way to fly. Horde orks and blob squads can be dealt with by many many frag templates and getting the charge (rather than being charged).

[Russell's teapot]

With the current prevalence of units equipped with power weapons and our reliance on DW squads being workhorse units, THSS is the only way to fly. Horde orks and blob squads can be dealt with by many many frag templates and getting the charge (rather than being charged).

Winner!

More characters

[Bartali]

As a side note, I'd say mix TH/SS with SB/PFists. SBs are still good sources of infantry harass and sometimes TH/SS just won't do *that* good in combat. In a tournament meta they probably will; but if you see orks, nids, blob squads, or other at-initiative loads of attacks fearless/stubborn infantry with loadsa-bodies; you'll wish you were backpeddling launching rounds in. 5 Stormshields is overkill.

Swiss army knife Terminators are normally poor as fulfilling one role prevents them from doing another. Eg firing CMLs at MCs or vehicles stops you firing Storm Bolters at light infantry, while close combat stops you firing anything at all.

Farming out a role elsewhere on the list eases the burden on the Terminators, and normally the best way to do it is farming out anti light infanty as it's cheap and readily available elsewhere (Dakka Preds, Speeders, Tacticals/Razorbacks, even LRCs for the purists etc)

I think the power of the Storm Bolter is massively overstated anyway. It takes 3 Terminators shooting to drop one T4 gribbly in cover - not the best use of their points.

[ErictheGreen]

Buying, building and painting another 15 THSS termis this close to 6th edition for me is folly.

I do, however, wholeheartedly agree.

[Sholto]

Well, I am in the middle of making another 10 TH/SS Terminators, but that is only because they look so cool. I am using Grey Knight Terminators to make a squad full of double-handed hammers and the other squad has tiny-handled Thor-style hammers. Looking good so far, and 6th Edition can go p**s up a wall if it doesn't like it

[Captain Collius]

Gotta love the Scots.

Flank Denial Castle counter charge always my order of the day. Oh and Th/Ss bubble wrap with apoth always a good thing. it won me 2 games this weekend.

Finn kabala et al i'll have to make my way to dream wizarsds this weekend to see this.

[Finn]

Gotta love the Scots.

Flank Denial Castle counter charge always my order of the day. Oh and Th/Ss bubble wrap with apoth always a good thing. it won me 2 games this weekend.

Refused flank is definitely the way I think DW has to be played. We have the range to reach anywhere from the corner, and we can't afford to have units get isolated, so there isn't another choice to me.

Finn kabala et al i'll have to make my way to dream wizarsds this weekend to see this.

I usually go on Wednesdays (if I go), weekends are almost always mandated S/O time.

[chmcclellan]

So the consensus WAAC DW(ish) list is somthing like:

Belial

5xDW Squads

3x AC/HB Predators

3x MM Typhoon Speeders

W/ the dakka preds do you bring stormbolters or just max out on shields? Is it worth setting up one TLLC/LCs pred or is the speeding multimelta sufficient AV 13-14?

The prospect of buying and building speeders and preds after having assembled 35 termies is both disgusting and exciting.

[Finn]

As well as an Apothecary in one of the DW Squads.

I think I've been convinced that all TH/SS is best, and just let the missiles and vehicles do the shooting as storm bolters have seemed incredibly underwhelming for me thus far... And though that's against MEQ and Mech DE only so far, that's pretty much what the meta is these days anyway. The extra durability seems better.

However, it's not enough better for me to go out and get 15 more TH/SS terminators (or even just the arms), so here I sit with my storm bolters.

[Droma]

I'm currently running

Belial apoth+banner
5x DW 3xth/ss 2x pf/sb, cyclone on a th/ss
3x typhoon + mm speeders
2-3 AC/LC preds, depends if I'm doing 1850 or 2k list.
Use chainfists for point fillers and it provides another wound group.

I think full th/ss is probably the better way to go as well but I'm not convinced the preds should have heavy bolters. So far I've gotten much better use from the lascannons than I would from heavy bolters. Anyone running large amounts of bodies in this meta is generally uncompetitive enough for me to simply not worry about. BA asm armies, draigowing, deathwing are the only competitive foot armies and HB's aren't that good against them. Against horde orks or bugs or demons massed missiles followed by getting the charge/countercharging generally works.

As for the hobby I'm working on my ravenwing hoping they'll be useful whenever the new book drops.

[Bartali]

So the consensus WAAC DW(ish) list is somthing like:

I'm not sure what a WAAC list is like, but I do know what a good list looks like.

[ErictheGreen]

WAAC is a play style, not a list.
Deathwing is about the only army where the auto/las pred is better than auto/bolter because you need to be cracking open transports