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Thread: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

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    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Hey all,

    I've been fascinated with the idea of truescale space marines for a number of years now, and with a number of people providing tutorials and trying it for themselves I figured it was time to give it a go myself.

    At the same time I thought I'd give the Black Dragons chapter a try. I would prefer a more colourful scheme, but I love the notion of the Dragon Claw units so I'm gonna go with it.

    So here's my first test model (with size comparison). He'll probably end up as a sergeant for a tactical squad or something.


    He still needs some work, but the basic figure is done. I'll try and get him finished before I do anymore. One thing I am concerned about is the smoothness of the greenstuff. If it isn't good enough it'll really bug me. A lot of details can be added, pouches, grenades, a scabbard for his sword and dragon pelts which will quite helpfully cover any dodgy bits of scultping.
    Last edited by Lamenter; 04-09-2008 at 02:54.
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  2. #2
    Commander swifty2's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Nice work mate, the sculpt has turned out really nicely.

  3. #3
    Inquisitor DeathCat147's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Very nice! I just noticed that you removed the armour plate from the hips, i was a little worried about doing that to mine incase it looked odd, you have proven me wrong! I will have to pilfer your alteration and inter-mingle a few hip-plateless marines amongst my squads for variety.

    As for the smoothness i really do feel your pain:cries:. My Chaplain was a sod to smooth out but it was worth it in the end. However as ive found and you have realised, accessories can hide a multitude of sins

  4. #4
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathCat147 View Post
    Very nice! I just noticed that you removed the armour plate from the hips, i was a little worried about doing that to mine incase it looked odd, you have proven me wrong! I will have to pilfer your alteration and inter-mingle a few hip-plateless marines amongst my squads for variety.

    As for the smoothness i really do feel your pain:cries:. My Chaplain was a sod to smooth out but it was worth it in the end. However as ive found and you have realised, accessories can hide a multitude of sins
    Thanks. I tend to prefer without the hip plates unless it's gonna be a Mk IV variant. I think it makes it harder to do, but they look less terminator like.

    I'll try and get hold of one of those clay shapers. I tend to just lick my scupting tool too, but a tiny amount of vaseline makes a huge difference.

    I decided that I wanted to scale up the backpacks too. In this case I just chopped up 2 packs and glued them together to make one wider pack.
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  5. #5
    Chaplain Praexes's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Looks like a great start! I'm subscribed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain of Chaos View Post
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  6. #6
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Well here's the test mini almost finished, some very minor tweaks to do that I only noticed in the photos.







    I got hold of some clay shaper tools as suggested by DeathCat147 and they have been an enormous help. Well worth the money I would say.

    I've been having second thoughts (happens to me every few hours ) about my choice of chapter. As much as I like the idea of the Dragon Claws units, painting black is a bit of a negative for me. I find that black minis never standout in a way I like.

    So for the moment at least (I'll probably change my mind tomorrow) I'm considering Blood Angels. However, for me the whole Army of Death thing never really appealed, and so I'm planning on doing them in the flavour they had back in first edition - a normal but highly regarded Space Marine chapter rather than an assault based army. They do after all follow normal codex chapter structure, and I'll probably disregard death company for the time being (always bugged me how they fight in EVERY Blood Angels battle). In addition I get to convert my own truescale Captain Tycho, my favourite GW character to lead them into battle (apparently Digi-lasers make a return in the new Codex, yay!).
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    Chaplain FerrumIgnatus's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Seems like everybody is going truescale, which isen't a bad thing, it's more interesting to watch how different people go different ways to achieve the same thing. Anyhow, stunning mini, Lamenter. Really like your widened backpack, -think you're the first "Truescaler" who has done that, but I might be wrong..- and the GS work, absolutely stunning! Are my eyes playing mind tricks to me, or have you modelled the mini according to the WYSIWYG rule?
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    Chapter Master rickie8437's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    he is great and also the best true scale marine i have ever seen keep it up cant wait to see the rest done

  9. #9
    Chapter Master warflag's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Wow, very good sculpting. An army of those? Have fun, and good luck on keeping the motivation!
    Love the Lamenter, btw. Good painting is to be expected aswell then.

    Cheers
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  10. #10
    Chapter Master Apologist's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Blood Angels army

    First off, stunning true-scaling there – smooth, striking and beautifully executed.

    for me the whole Army of Death thing never really appealed, and so I'm planning on doing them in the flavour they had back in first edition - a normal but highly regarded Space Marine chapter rather than an assault based army.
    I really, really hope you follow through with doing Blood Angels in this vein; as this is very much how I see the sons of Sanguinius. I've never liked the 'loyalist berserkers' that they became after 2nd edition, and always missed the noble, angelic feel of the orginals.

    Apart from anything else, the additional size of these models will make it really fun to superdetail, adding plenty of the artificer touches that the aesthetic Angels are famed for.

    In addition I get to convert my own truescale Captain Tycho, my favourite GW character to lead them into battle (apparently Digi-lasers make a return in the new Codex, yay!).
    A pre-ork attack one, I hope? Massive kudos if you sculpt him after the original Captain Tycho from the battle report in WD140ish...
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  11. #11
    Chapter Master Sojourner's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Wow! If they're painted as well as that Lamenter, these will be something to see.

    My only slight niggle is that the waist is ever so slightly too narrow. If you compare, his waist inside the armour would only be about as wide as his head. Since doing this accurately would make marines look fat and stupid, I'd suggest heavily obscuring the torso region with lots of combat widgets.
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  12. #12
    Inquisitor DeathCat147's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamenter View Post
    I got hold of some clay shaper tools as suggested by DeathCat147 and they have been an enormous help. Well worth the money I would say.
    Im glad that my suggestion helped, the sculpting is excellent, in fact the model overall is excellent i really am impressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamenter View Post
    I've been having second thoughts (happens to me every few hours ) about my choice of chapter. As much as I like the idea of the Dragon Claws units, painting black is a bit of a negative for me. I find that black minis never standout in a way I like.

    So for the moment at least (I'll probably change my mind tomorrow) I'm considering Blood Angels. However, for me the whole Army of Death thing never really appealed, and so I'm planning on doing them in the flavour they had back in first edition - a normal but highly regarded Space Marine chapter rather than an assault based army. They do after all follow normal codex chapter structure, and I'll probably disregard death company for the time being (always bugged me how they fight in EVERY Blood Angels battle). In addition I get to convert my own truescale Captain Tycho, my favourite GW character to lead them into battle (apparently Digi-lasers make a return in the new Codex, yay!).
    I know exactly how you feel. The number of time i changed my mind before finally settling on doing my own chapter are too numerous to mention.

    With the robes he does look more monastic ala Blood Angels/ Black Templars. I think that choosing Blood Angels was the right choice as i think you will do justice to them, especially with the sculpting. Will you be sculpting the chapter emblem on?

  13. #13
    Chapter Master Son of the Lion's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    See, I actually don't like truescale because I'm not fond of the retconning of Marines into 8ft demigods waaay back in 2nd/3rd ed. But that's because I'm a stick-in-the-mud.

    What I do like is the way the truescale minis tend to be better proportioned - the heads, backpacks and weapons all look more 'realistic' on the larger Marines, and I think you've done a really good job with that. It's very simple but very effective and the sculpting is exceptionally clean.

    Also, I second Blood Angels - I'm curious to see what they look like in truescale, especially if you're staying true to their roots.

  14. #14
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Thanks everyone, now I feel obligated to have to follow through

    Quote Originally Posted by FerrumIgnatus View Post
    Seems like everybody is going truescale, which isen't a bad thing, it's more interesting to watch how different people go different ways to achieve the same thing. Anyhow, stunning mini, Lamenter. Really like your widened backpack, -think you're the first "Truescaler" who has done that, but I might be wrong..- and the GS work, absolutely stunning! Are my eyes playing mind tricks to me, or have you modelled the mini according to the WYSIWYG rule?
    A lot of the quality of GS comes from good tools. I really can't recommend a clay shaper or two highly enough. I guess the widened backpack is down to personal taste. I prefer em big, some prefer em standard. Yes, all my minis are WYSIWYG, I'm pedantic like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickie8437 View Post
    he is great and also the best true scale marine i have ever seen keep it up cant wait to see the rest done
    Thank you kindly. Now to work on a squad for him to lead. I already have the bits, just need the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by warflag View Post
    Wow, very good sculpting. An army of those? Have fun, and good luck on keeping the motivation!
    Love the Lamenter, btw. Good painting is to be expected aswell then.
    Yeah, motivation... that's going to be the hardest thing when it comes down to doing an army of them. Think I'll build and paint one squad at a time, and unusually for me, I'll leave the character (Tycho) till last when my GS skills have improved enough (hopefully).

    Quote Originally Posted by Apologist View Post
    I really, really hope you follow through with doing Blood Angels in this vein; as this is very much how I see the sons of Sanguinius. I've never liked the 'loyalist berserkers' that they became after 2nd edition, and always missed the noble, angelic feel of the orginals.

    Apart from anything else, the additional size of these models will make it really fun to superdetail, adding plenty of the artificer touches that the aesthetic Angels are famed for.

    A pre-ork attack one, I hope? Massive kudos if you sculpt him after the original Captain Tycho from the battle report in WD140ish...
    That's it exactly. It's the aesthetic styling of the Blood Angels I love, not there vampiric tendencies. As for Tycho I'll do him pre-armageddon (3rd), ie: not dead. Painted in the same way as featured in WD139, but with his rictus mask. Maybe holding his original deathmask helm underarm. The army used in the battle report in WD141 (ah, nostalgia) is the basic army I'm planning on building, but probably an Assault Squad instead of Terminators. I'll take lots of little touches from those minis and incorporate them into my army, like the beakie librarian with scroll in hand for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    My only slight niggle is that the waist is ever so slightly too narrow. If you compare, his waist inside the armour would only be about as wide as his head. Since doing this accurately would make marines look fat and stupid, I'd suggest heavily obscuring the torso region with lots of combat widgets.
    I know what you mean about the waist, but then all the current models have this. Technically these aren't truescale conversions but as Doghouse put it "actual scale" conversions. They retain the heroic proportions of GW minis but are scaled correctly against an imperial guardsman.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathCat147 View Post
    With the robes he does look more monastic ala Blood Angels/ Black Templars. I think that choosing Blood Angels was the right choice as i think you will do justice to them, especially with the sculpting. Will you be sculpting the chapter emblem on?
    Thanks. Yeah, I think Blood Angels are the right choice. I originally sculpted on the robe to cover the dodgy GS work underneath, but I'm more than pleased with the result.

    Right now I'm thinking the emblem will either be painted on or done by decal. In the past I hated decals with a passion, but I've some really good stuff recently that I doubt I could better if I sculpted them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of the Lion View Post
    Also, I second Blood Angels - I'm curious to see what they look like in truescale, especially if you're staying true to their roots.
    Blood Angels it is then. I'll definitely be staying true to their roots.


    I'm gonna do some more work tonight and hopefully have the beginnings of a squad sometime tomorrow.
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  15. #15
    Chapter Master Gonfrask's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Wow, that project promise!

  16. #16
    Chaplain Praexes's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    I also vote for Sons of Sanguinius. They can either look great or terrible though IMO, depending on whether the painter goes all 'orange' on them. I personally much prefer the dark red Blood Angels, don't know what you think.

    But also: Clay Shapers... how intriguing. I'll give it a try. If my stuff turns out half as good as yours, I'll be happy. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain of Chaos View Post
    I think i'd rather hope for the infintisimal prospect of advancment in the Imperium than live in a galaxy where all the aliens looked like humans with varying head ridges.
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  17. #17
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Blood Angels army

    Quote Originally Posted by Praexes View Post
    I also vote for Sons of Sanguinius. They can either look great or terrible though IMO, depending on whether the painter goes all 'orange' on them. I personally much prefer the dark red Blood Angels, don't know what you think.

    But also: Clay Shapers... how intriguing. I'll give it a try. If my stuff turns out half as good as yours, I'll be happy.
    My preference is for the deep red that GW uses at the moment for their studio Blood Angels, though I may use the black rims on the pads that they've currently abandoned.

    If you get a clay shaper, a chisel shaped size 6 is ideal for getting the greaves and thighs smooth. Smaller ones are better for more detailed areas, obviously.


    Ok small update.

    So here's my first Tactical marine in progress and 3 others in various stages of green stuff work.





    I decided quite early on that the green stuff work needs to be done in many small stages as I have the rather annoying habit of putting my finger on a finished part before it's hardened.

    Also, because of the nature of the project and style of the Blood Angels themselves I've figured I need to (for the most part) work on one figure at a time. If not I tend to rush, and these figures need time and attention lavished on each and every one. In other words this is going to take a while.

    Moving on. The chest plate on marine number 2, is just a standard power armour chest. The belt and midsection have obviously been removed. I bulked it out by sandwiching green stuff between the front and back pieces but at first it didn't look big enough. I was fairly certain width wasn't the issue, as I'd widened the original test model and ended up trimming it back to his original width to make it look right. So I then went on to sculpt an extension to the bottom of the chest plate. I think this works fairly well. I was really not keen to be sculpting chest eagles on every model and so far this looks to be a mighty fine compromise. I'll have to see how it goes however.

    I've also decided to go with transfers for the shoulder pads as I've found a good place to buy them and think I should give em a go after all these years of avoiding them.
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  18. #18

    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    Very nice- these are some of the best-proportioned truescale Marines I've seen. Also, Lamenters = win.

    Problem- not rolling with the double-backpack. Leave it as is, or increase it proportionally in height.
    Last edited by Brother_Chaplian Raimo; 08-09-2008 at 01:19.

  19. #19
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    More in progress pics of the second mini. I'm not entirely happy with the midsection, but as it won't be visible because of the position of the bolter I'm not gonna stress over it.





    I want all these models to be strictly WYSIWYG and so added a bolt pistol as the marine's second weapon. However, something that has always bugged me is the small size of holstered bolt pistols, and so to remedy this I took a standard bolt pistol and sculpted a holster for it based on this style holster.

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  20. #20
    Commander Lamenter's Avatar
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    Re: More Truescale madness - Black Dragons army

    And now the finished model, except his hand. I was going to use to standard gripping hand from the power armour sprue, but it just looks too small. So instead I'll sculpt it myself.




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