Tactica - Space Marines

[hush88]

With the Codex in hand, it is time to look at the possibilities of the Codex. There are already several discussions on about the possibilities of combining several Marine Special Characters, but it may be better serve if all discussions are located in one thread.

Things that i have noted and posted in the DA thread in discussion with my battle brothers there;
1. Unique Characters as you have mentioned, some are down right nutsy with their special capablities. However, in many instances, we can strike before they can in CC as most of them now operate at I4 instead of I5, and a few of them carrying PFs and THs will again allow us to strike first. Having orbital bombardment could be fun though.

2. HQs. There is some limitations as to how they can equipped their HQs, but most importantly, Rites of Battle is gone from most of them. Command squads are slightly superior to ours. Apothecary now gives FNP to the whole squad. Yes FNP is slightly nerfed, but having FNP is better than no FNP.

3. Psykers. IMO i dont think their powers are any better ours. Their 'hood is also limited to a range of 24" to nullify opposition's psykers.

4. Elites. Oh my. I do wish we can have Sternguards. That will really compliment our shooting. Ironclads would be good as well. Assault terminators with TH/SS, wants to make me cry.

5. Troops. Having scouts are fantastic but BS3 WS3? While i do admit that does fall into the Fluff a little, gamewise.....Tacticals, ours win hands down. Theirs can't take anything with having 10 men. And the free stuff is also limited.

6. Fast attack. Assault squads can take flamers!! Scout bikes looks interesting as well, but can't really say about their effectiveness. Vanguard...ouch, both in abilities and cost.

7. Heavy. Some glaring benefits for SM. Do you know that most of the vehicles that shoot ordnance is also barrage? That means that even a vindy can shoot without LOS! Tri-las pred....for every 2 of their we can buy 3.

[Kloud13]

Things I want to try

1. Ven Dread in Drop Pod with Multi-Melta.
-Piece of Enemy Armour causing you problems, Aim Drop Pod Right at it, no matter which way you scatter, you will be within 12" of the offending tank.
-Ven Dread hits on 2+, Strength 8 2D6 Armour Pen. AP1. That tank should be toast.

2. I am ripping off all of the Assault Cannons off my 3 Landspeeders, And replacing them with a chin mounted Heavy Bolter.
-Each Land Speeder will have 2 Hvy Bolters Each.
-A Squadron of 3 is only 180 pts.
-Move 6" or less and still fire both Heavy Bolters.
-A Squadron of 3 will be putting out 18 strength 5 shots per turn. Horde armies Tremble.

3. 2 Predator Destructors.
-Pred Annialator with Las Sponsons = Ridiculously Expensive
-Pred Destructor with Hvy Bolters = Dirt Cheap (Same as Whirlwind)
-2 Destructors + Whirlwind, very cheap way to put alot of pressure on enemy scoring units.

4. 10 man Tactical Squads with Razorback support.
- 10 man squads can take Razorbacks as transports as they can split into Combat squads, and only have jump in Razorback at a time.

[MALICIOUS LOGIC]

I think Marneus Calgar will be great with infantry heavy armies.

The new Salamandars' character could do well with mechanized lists. All flamers and meltas count as twin-linked. Get a lot of tanks with meltas or flamers. Then load the transports with infantry that has flamers and meltas. Plus you can load a Land Raider with Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators. (Thunder Hammers count as master crafted).

~Logic

[Mr Chief]

Iv been looking at Calgar, and for his points, is he ever really worth it? I see so much other stuff that seems to be a good idea.

[hush88]

That would work until it hits against monoliths.
Monoliths are probably the bane for Salamanders.

Other than than Salamanders would probably rule against most other armies.

Did anyone notice that Ultramarines have no Chapter Tactics?
Think of the fun!

[khornatedaemon]

That would work until it hits against monoliths.
Monoliths are probably the bane for Salamanders.

Other than than Salamanders would probably rule against most other armies.

Did anyone notice that Ultramarines have no Chapter Tactics?
Think of the fun!

remember melta's can destroy monoliths on glancing 6's being ap1 weapons. So sallies arent totally boned

Ironclads also make short work of monoliths. 3 base str 10 attacks with +1 to rolls on the damage chart.

[hush88]

With 3+ invuls I think the termies are unlikely to not get a majority of hits in. I like this change because it encourages people to overwhelm them with small arms fire instead of acting crazy and blasting them with AT weapons and hoping they hit a chink in the 5+ inv save. The main reason no one used these guys in prior editions was simply that more than half of them would be dead by the time they'd reached combat barring the Land Raider being involved -- and even then you had the undesirable situation of having 500 points in one vehicle.

I would expect to see a LOT of cyclones in the new army for sure....

Cyclones does sound like the "in" thing for shooty termies. Anyone willling to put one on a TH/SS or TLLC termie?
Or the option here is to forgo the assault cannon for the cyclone ML?

remember melta's can destroy monoliths on glancing 6's being ap1 weapons. So sallies arent totally boned

Ironclads also make short work of monoliths. 3 base str 10 attacks with +1 to rolls on the damage chart.

True, but it does makes life really difficult for them, needing a 6 just to hope they get a destroyed result. Still it does forgo the temptation of moving with half range to get the extra D6 for penetration roll.

[Atomic Rooster]

remember melta's can destroy monoliths on glancing 6's being ap1 weapons. So sallies arent totally boned

relying on 6s is the definition of boned. Look it up

[Spacecurves]

Concerning salamanders vs. monoliths: Ignore the monoliths! Smash and burn warriors with vulcanized twin linked flamers and thunderhammers until the foul robots teleport away!

[Elfving71]

Smash and burn warriors with vulcanized twin linked flamers and thunderhammers until the foul robots teleport away!

Eat Thunderhammer Xeno

[hardrockfreak1337]

That would work until it hits against monoliths.
Monoliths are probably the bane for Salamanders.

Other than than Salamanders would probably rule against most other armies.

Did anyone notice that Ultramarines have no Chapter Tactics?
Think of the fun!

Except that you are mech so you can avoid the monolith.

[senorcardgage]

7. Heavy. Some glaring benefits for SM. Do you know that most of the vehicles that shoot ordnance is also barrage? That means that even a vindy can shoot without LOS! Tri-las pred....for every 2 of their we can buy 3.

Uhh, who says that the vindi can shoot indirectly??

[VulkansApprentice]

Uhh, who says that the vindi can shoot indirectly??

In the reference table in the back it does list the demolisher cannon as ordnance barrage, but if you get on the gaming section of the GW website and look at the SM FAQ, they fixed it with errata: the demolisher cannon is regular ordnance, not ordnance barrage.

[hush88]

Summary page says that the demolisher cannon is an Ordnance Barrage weapon, so there is your indirect fire.

On the other hand, the Vindicator main entry just states that it is a Ordnance weapon. Points for arguement.

[senorcardgage]

Well, that and the demolisher canon has never been a barrage weapon...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I dunno about anyone else but I am looking forward to a 140-point 2+/3+ Save Termie Librarian beaming around the board with Sternguard in tow...particularly considering that I think locator beacons and such will affect his scatter.

As for the Vinie, prior incidents of similar misprints always point to the entry not the summary...so expect it to do the same. I don't quite get why they don't just say "Direct ordnance" and "Indirect ordnance" personally...

I think every new SM army is going to really benefit from the Drop Pod Assault rule, as if you simply take a single drop pod, it has to arrive on the first turn and may carry a beacon for other drop pods that I believe may also work for all deep striking units. This makes a dropping "suicide" squad (perhaps "homicide" is more apt) particularly brutal. I myself will be putting a very hard Ironclad in there, probably with dual heavy flamers, but this is a conservative choice. Some of the other things that could be in there carry a lot more destructive potential.

I see a lot of speeder popularity, too. As pointed out, the gun loadouts can be very effective, and for short points you can put out a LOT of long range firepower. Squads of 3 double-HB speeders seem a solid choice that could weight-of-fire or strength-and-AP its way to success in many different game scenarios. Couple with the dirt-cheap predators, you can cause some horrific amounts of pain for under 400 points...

I foresee the characters being less key than most people might. Costs aren't prohibitive for what they do, but if you are looking for some bread and butter guys you can take some strong gear for short points on a master or captain.

Also, make note of the way options are worded in the master's entry -- some of those items can be taken but are not expressly replaced when he picks up terminator armor. Hurray!

[hush88]

Well, that and the demolisher canon has never been a barrage weapon...

True, but never been doesn't mean never will. Maybe EE19 is correct about the misprint, but in the mean time, is it or is it not a barrage weapon? If the misprint is in the entry then the demolisher just became a barrage weapon. Cool

I dunno about anyone else but I am looking forward to a 140-point 2+/3+ Save Termie Librarian beaming around the board with Sternguard in tow...particularly considering that I think locator beacons and such will affect his scatter.

As for the Vinie, prior incidents of similar misprints always point to the entry not the summary...so expect it to do the same. I don't quite get why they don't just say "Direct ordnance" and "Indirect ordnance" personally...

I think every new SM army is going to really benefit from the Drop Pod Assault rule, as if you simply take a single drop pod, it has to arrive on the first turn and may carry a beacon for other drop pods that I believe may also work for all deep striking units. This makes a dropping "suicide" squad (perhaps "homicide" is more apt) particularly brutal. I myself will be putting a very hard Ironclad in there, probably with dual heavy flamers, but this is a conservative choice. Some of the other things that could be in there carry a lot more destructive potential.

I see a lot of speeder popularity, too. As pointed out, the gun loadouts can be very effective, and for short points you can put out a LOT of long range firepower. Squads of 3 double-HB speeders seem a solid choice that could weight-of-fire or strength-and-AP its way to success in many different game scenarios. Couple with the dirt-cheap predators, you can cause some horrific amounts of pain for under 400 points...

I foresee the characters being less key than most people might. Costs aren't prohibitive for what they do, but if you are looking for some bread and butter guys you can take some strong gear for short points on a master or captain.

Also, make note of the way options are worded in the master's entry -- some of those items can be taken but are not expressly replaced when he picks up terminator armor. Hurray!

Double HB speeders sounds good, in fact too good to be true, again is it a misprint?

But i am really looking towards the TH/SS terminators as well. All in all, they were all but ignored under the 4th. Now with the 2+/3+ as well as using them inconjunction with Shrike (giving them fleet), could be devastating. Though the question is, is a 5 men team lasting enough against people as the termies will always roll last?

[Koryphaus]

True, but never been doesn't mean never will. Maybe EE19 is correct about the misprint, but in the mean time, is it or is it not a barrage weapon? If the misprint is in the entry then the demolisher just became a barrage weapon. Cool

An Indirect Fire Demolisher Cannon? No.

[Bringer of the red dawn]

my personal favorite from the New Dex is the Ironclad dred in a drop pod, the Ironclad will have 2 heavy flamers, or maybe keep a multi melta for anti tank.. this Dreadnaugh can easily take on full squads when it comes down, leveling one squad in flames, then charging in. I would also recomend a Deathwind missle launcher, as the ironclad needs close proximity to work effectively, the close range for the missles can really unleash hell

[OneDumbPunk85]

I was going through the thread, and I was hoping someone can answer a question for me.

Can Terminators use a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicaded transport?

I am looking at doing a mechanised marine army, and before I fully go for it, I would like an idea of what I would be able to do.

Thanks in advance.